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Topic: Coinbase Blog - Buy And Sell Bitcoin By Connecting Any U.S. Bank Account (Read 27621 times)

pof
full member
Activity: 204
Merit: 100
http://blog.coinbase.com/post/43285532179/unconfirmed-transactions

Quote

Unconfirmed transactions

We experienced some delayed transaction confirmations over the past week.

I just wanted to take a moment to update you on the status of this issue and apologize for any trouble it may have caused you.  Our goal is to have all bitcoin transactions arrive within a few seconds (about the speed of an email) and to be confirmed within the hour.  In this case we fell far short of that goal (some transactions were delayed for a number of days), and for that I am truly sorry.  I know it caused undue hassle and concern for our customers, and that is something we never want to happen.

The majority of these delays should now be resolved.  I’d like to address the solution we now have in place and some additional notes on how we think about transaction confirmations.

The root of the issue stemmed from how bitcoin transactions tend to chain together.  If you have a group of 20 bitcoins and you want to send 1, your transaction actually uses all 20 bitcoins and sends you 19 bitcoins as “change”.  This is much the same as using a $20 bill and getting $19 change for your purchase.

Your 19 bitcoins can then be used for the next transaction, and the change for that for the next, and so on.  This creates a chain of transactions where you are spending the change from the previous.

One challenge of the bitcoin protocol is that transactions can often take 10 minutes or longer to be “confirmed” (or make it into a block).  So if you are rapidly sending transactions you may end up using coins that haven’t been confirmed.  And if one of those transactions happens to never confirm (or takes a long time to do so) it hold up every other transaction in the chain.

Coinbase has a number of processes to counteract this, including using a hot wallet, breaking outputs into smaller chunks (sending a hundred 1 BTC payments from a 100 change will create a longer chain than sending a hundred 1 BTC payments from ten groups of 10 BTC), and paying miners fees on our customer’s behalf to make sure transactions are mined quickly.  But as we continue to scale and move beyond several thousand transactions per day, our basic systems were not cutting it any longer and there were a few edges we weren’t accounting for.

In particular, what caused the issues this week was getting transactions into the hot wallet which very long confirmation times.  Luke Jr and the the community were very helpful in assisting us in getting these mined, and a big thank you goes out to them.  We also re-generated/broadcast a number of transactions to get them confirmed.

We have now rewritten how our coin selection works, and pushed out a big code update today.  In particular, confirmed coins will be required in several cases, including:

when sending to the hot wallet
well selling coins through Coinbase
In these situations the number of blocks (or confirmations) that are required varies with the amount of the output.

There are other transactions (for example those coming out of the hot wallet) where we require fewer confirmations, or in some cases a maximum “depth” to the chain of 3 transactions.  If no coins are in the user wallet or hot wallet that meet this criteria, then you may be required to slow down generating new transactions for a period of time.  We will automatically try regenerating pending transactions at increasing intervals until there are sufficient confirmed coins to complete the transaction.

There is a trade off to requiring confirmed coins for every transaction.  The pros are that it assures all new transactions are confirmed quickly, and unconfirmed chains can’t build up.  The cons are that it requires the user to wait if there are currently no confirmed coins available.  As Coinbase continues to go, we will keep working on improving this situation and work to make sure it has the right balance between confirmation times and sending rate.  There is a lot more we could be doing around instant confirmations down the road as well.

Hopefully this helps explain the issue we faced and let’s you know that we are taking it seriously.  As always, we are open to your feedback in the support forum.

Sincerely,
Brian Armstrong
CEO, Coinbase

sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
I think Coinbase shows promise, but it is frustrating to watch some of their struggles.

To me, the obvious answer to a lot of their troubles with fraud and new users would be to "quarantine" a certain balance for a certain period.  If I'm a new user, and I buy 10 BTC, quarantine it for 30 days if you must.  Or quarantine 90% of it.

If I'm a regular user, transacting 100 BTC worth of purchases per month, and suddenly I try to buy 1000 BTC, that should raise a flag.  Let 100 BTC go as normal, and quarantine 90% of the balance.  Or maybe 50% if I've been around for many months.

Just maintain a trust level for each account - Account number N has proven themselves trustworthy because they've done a volume of X BTC transactions in a month.  And (like the block chain), the longer a transaction has existed, the more reliable it is.  If a person has done 100 BTCs per month for 5 months, you might cut them some slack when they try to do a 1000 BTC transaction.  Maybe quarantine less.

Give the user a choice before reversing the transaction:  We can reverse this, or quarantine it for 30 days.  Your choice.  Better yet, notify them of the quarantine at the time of the purchase, so they can decide if it's ok.
member
Activity: 87
Merit: 12
More than one person has noted that transactions have a much higher probability of being classified as "high risk" if the exchange rate has gone up significantly between the time it was started and the time they credit your account with bitcoins. One would think they allocate the bitcoins immediately at the time they lock in the price, but if they aren't doing that it would make sense for them to cancel the order if the price has moved too far.

That would certainly change the classification of this from being unprofessional to being unethical, so I didn't want to say it myself, but the thought did cross my mind.  (There has been an 18% increase in the exchange rate since my order was put through.)  What's also rather irritating is they still deducted the USD from my bank account.  So they didn't really "cancel" the order.  They just canceled the part of the transaction where they provide the product they've been paid for.  I'll be curious to see what happens with the rest of my pending orders, especially the ones placed at higher exchange rates.

I really do want Coinbase to succeed.  A functional service like this is very much needed, and their setup may even be easy enough for Grandma to use.  But, the real world has very little tolerance for the kind of shenanigans that seem all too common with Bitcoin "businesses".
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
Bytecoin: 8VofSsbQvTd8YwAcxiCcxrqZ9MnGPjaAQm
I like this site
I did too until they suddenly decided to cancel my most recent purchase because it "appears to be high risk".
It appears they may be using unconfirmed outputs in the transactions they generate to send you your bitcoins. That's just too much risk for me to be allowing them to pull money from my bank account. Until they resolve this issue, I wouldn't trust them enough to receive any transactions from them.  By the time they've sent you the bad transaction, they've already got the money from your bank account.  How do you straighten that out?

EDIT: Apparently coinbase is fixing the bug.  If I get confirmation that the bug is fixed, I'll delete this message.

They say it's now fixed, and they are offering a 5BTC bounty to get the messed up transactions mined.
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1009
Overall, this is a big disappointment because it seemed like Coinbase was finally the first professional service for buying and selling coins.  Unfortunately, it looks like it's still amateur hour in Bitcoin land -- as usual.
More than one person has noted that transactions have a much higher probability of being classified as "high risk" if the exchange rate has gone up significantly between the time it was started and the time they credit your account with bitcoins. One would think they allocate the bitcoins immediately at the time they lock in the price, but if they aren't doing that it would make sense for them to cancel the order if the price has moved too far.
member
Activity: 87
Merit: 12
I like this site
I did too until they suddenly decided to cancel my most recent purchase because it "appears to be high risk".

They pulled the same thing on me despite completing about a half dozen 10 BTC purchases over the course of the last month.  They waited a week to cancel my supposedly "high risk" transaction, but they have not yet canceled my other pending transactions or closed my account.  It seems like an immediate account freeze would be the first course of action if any sort of fraud was truly suspected.

Overall, this is a big disappointment because it seemed like Coinbase was finally the first professional service for buying and selling coins.  Unfortunately, it looks like it's still amateur hour in Bitcoin land -- as usual.
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1009
I like this site
I did too until they suddenly decided to cancel my most recent purchase because it "appears to be high risk".
legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 1060
newbie
Activity: 50
Merit: 0
Coinbase uses ACH (Automated Clearing House) to transfer the funds from your bank account to theirs. According to the following site ACH works with U.S. territories.

http://www.achnetwork.com/introtoach.html

You need to have a checking account. You need to provide Coinbase with the routing number of the bank and with your account number. You can find that information on the bottom of your checks or on a statement from your bank.

You can also try contacting Coinbase support or ask your bank.
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
I don't want to detract but I have to because I can't find a proper thread, but, I live in a U.S. territory, where could I check if my bank works with the people of CB?
legendary
Activity: 2506
Merit: 1010
And now I cannot even get into my account...

Quote
Coinbase Error
Whoops! It looks like we encountered a problem.

We've been notificed about the problem and are working on it. Please try again in a few minutes or you can return to the homepage.

Anyone else having issues with the site?

I was just able to login successfully.
legendary
Activity: 2506
Merit: 1010
I've been getting an error that I cannot sell any BTC because it would exceed my 100 BTC daily limit.

The limit is $100 USD per-day not 100 BTC.  [Edit: Oops, I read that wrong.  100 BTC per-day when selling.   The $100 USD is the limit when buying.]
full member
Activity: 150
Merit: 100
Thank you! Thank you! ...
Coinbase appears to be offline within the last hour or so.

And they're back! From twitter:

Quote
Coinbase ‏@coinbase And we're back re-syncing. Sorry about that! Looks like a bad node on the network. Should be all fixed.
legendary
Activity: 2506
Merit: 1010
Coinbase appears to be offline within the last hour or so.

The main page is still responding, but when attempting to login is when I see the error.

This reminds me ...

Feature request: Show the exchange rate that I would pay to buy through Coinbase (and the exchange rate I would receive when selling through Coinbase) without having to login.

I check a few sources before I buy or sell and not having to login to see the rate offered would save a few seconds.  I'm sure I'm not the only one that does this.
full member
Activity: 150
Merit: 100
Thank you! Thank you! ...
Coinbase appears to be offline within the last hour or so.

Quote
Coinbase Error

Whoops! It looks like we encountered a problem.

We've been notificed about the problem and are working on it. Please try again in a few minutes or you can return to the homepage.

We'll post updates on Twitter if the problem persists.

No updates on twitter yet though.
full member
Activity: 160
Merit: 100
Yea!

I did my first Coinbase transaction.  It was quite easy. 

I opted to verify my bank via two small deposits (the way paypal does it) and it took one banking day to receive the deposits.  Once I did, it took about a minute to login and verify my account.

The price was the same as the offer on mtgox.  There were 700 BTC offered on Mtgox at the time.  I didn't see the buy go through Mtgox.

I won't get access to the BTC until after they debit my account (I assume because of Thanksgiving and weekend), but that's fine with me-- as long as I know the price I paid.

If they can raise the $100 limit, this service will be quite valuable.  I like to buy BTC when the price drops, but Mtgox takes forever to get cash into (I don't like to keep funds in an non-US company) and I ended up paying about 9% both times I used Bitinstant. 
sr. member
Activity: 283
Merit: 250
I successfully connected a checking account, bought $100 worth of bitcoins, and withdrew them to my local wallet.

I had similar success with $400 worth. The withdraw seemed to take awhile (about an hour for the transaction to hit the network), though the wishful thinking part of me believes that's because they had to get some out of cold storage to service the request. (Moar bitcoin businesses with responsible cold storage practices... I'm looking at you bitfloor, you owe me 36 BTC)
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1009
I successfully connected a checking account, bought $100 worth of bitcoins, and withdrew them to my local wallet.

The service works well, other than the unavoidable delay in waiting for the ACH transfer to clear. I initiated the purchase at 9:00 am  on the 7th, and did not have access to the bitcoins until the today (13th) at 6:30 pm. I assume that's the banking system's fault and something Coinbase can't reasonably do anything about.
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1005
Product Marketing & Promotion / Software Developer
The fact that this website is still around and has not been taken down or anything like that, shows me that they are here to stay.

With Bitcoin you can make loads of money and we are talking hundreds of thousands of dollars if you create a BTC withdrawl and purchase system that works and is simple, unlike having to go through 3 or 4 different website each which take there cut.

If a website scams people, it will last for, at the most a month and then it gets shut down and that's it, the idea and the great business plan is gone.

Scamming is for a quick buck here and there but developing a system that works over the long time is in theory priceless.
sr. member
Activity: 303
Merit: 250
This is a bad idea. Coinbase is asking for your password when it want to access your bank account. Do not use!

Agreed. Coinbase is a bad idea on many levels (bank integration, wallet security, governing jurisdiction). I don't want to buy bitcoin from my bank or my bank's partner. Additionally, I am concerned about the coins that are stored at the Coinbase Wallet. It seems to me that Coinbase thinks of BTC as something like Linden Dollars or Facebook Credits (just another non-convertible virtual currency) and that they are missing the larger picture of Bitcoin (because they just wanted to raise some startup capital without realizing that they are playing with fire).

If they think I am wrong about all of this, I would love to hear back from one of the Coinbase VC investors.
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