Topic: Coinbase cancellation issues are NOT resolved. (Read 4281 times)
This is just absolutely unfuckinbelievable. I've still not been compensated for what they canceled from May.
Therefore, coinbase could never do anything with your funds. They stand to gain nothing by faking that the orders are fraud.
They're not faking. They have the orders and the cash to back it up. They use the collective clout to get coins on the market and then they divvy them up to themselves and their customers. Not all of their customers get coins. The smaller ones get their money back...someday.
Also, if they're not faking the fraud detection, then wtf is this thread about? ANY legit financial business is going to have fraud detection. They're not scamming or cheating anyone!
- You give CB the ability to take your cash in trade for a promise that they'll give you btc at a certain rate.
- CB spends some cash they already have to buy some btc at the rate (minus their 1%, of course).
- CB now has the ability to sell some btc that they just bought with their own money, but they wait to see:
- A) what the price does, and
- B) How likely it is that you'll do a charge back.
- A few days later, the price is either higher or lower:
- If it's higher, they sell their btc and send you a "fraud notice", but only on one out of a thousand transactions that are for enough btc to make it worth their while. On the other 999 transactions that they deem worthy of scamming, they do what they'd do if it's lower:
- If it's lower, they sell their btc to you as you wanted and get their 1% fee.
The point is that they don't need our money if they already have some (which, of course, they do).
However, I think its foolish to expect other people not to scam you if you don't make it difficult for them to scam you. The easiest way to make it difficult is to be one of the squeaky wheels. Make it easy for the public to see whether or not your counterparty is scamming you. Bitcoin was designed with this principle in mind. See what Satoshi said about it - it's in my signature. When you publish enough, it becomes difficult for the scammer to use you as a mark. At that point, if they're smart (Coinbase is pretty smart), they will use you as an unwitting shill.
If I suspect that I am being used as an unwitting shill to support a long con, and I know that I am benefiting from it (whether I'm a con or not), is it immoral for me to present both sides of the question and suggest that I believe the operators are legit? For me, they are legit, perhaps only because I have made it too difficult for them to con me. If they are scammers, but smart enough, they can play it in a way that makes it difficult for me to find out for sure if it's a con.
The opportunity exists for a small team to devise a plan that produces the evidence required to prove (to those willing to consider it and smart enough to understand it) that it is a con. You can't prove it isn't a con, because every trusted person can abuse the trust, making the interaction that created the trust into a long con. But you can prove it is a con, IF it is a con. It just takes a lot of work. You can view bitcoin as the "lot of work" required to prove that fiat currency is a long con.
Somebody was explaining that it's unfair to lump this coinscam with the other coinscam but now I can't find who and where.
Therefore, coinbase could never do anything with your funds. They stand to gain nothing by faking that the orders are fraud.
They're not faking. They have the orders and the cash to back it up. They use the collective clout to get coins on the market and then they divvy them up to themselves and their customers. Not all of their customers get coins. The smaller ones get their money back...someday.
Also, if they're not faking the fraud detection, then wtf is this thread about? ANY legit financial business is going to have fraud detection. They're not scamming or cheating anyone!
- You give CB the ability to take your cash in trade for a promise that they'll give you btc at a certain rate.
- CB spends some cash they already have to buy some btc at the rate (minus their 1%, of course).
- CB now has the ability to sell some btc that they just bought with their own money, but they wait to see:
- A) what the price does, and
- B) How likely it is that you'll do a charge back.
- A few days later, the price is either higher or lower:
- If it's higher, they sell their btc and send you a "fraud notice", but only on one out of a thousand transactions that are for enough btc to make it worth their while. On the other 999 transactions that they deem worthy of scamming, they do what they'd do if it's lower:
- If it's lower, they sell their btc to you as you wanted and get their 1% fee.
The point is that they don't need our money if they already have some (which, of course, they do).
However, I think its foolish to expect other people not to scam you if you don't make it difficult for them to scam you. The easiest way to make it difficult is to be one of the squeaky wheels. Make it easy for the public to see whether or not your counterparty is scamming you. Bitcoin was designed with this principle in mind. See what Satoshi said about it - it's in my signature. When you publish enough, it becomes difficult for the scammer to use you as a mark. At that point, if they're smart (Coinbase is pretty smart), they will use you as an unwitting shill.
If I suspect that I am being used as an unwitting shill to support a long con, and I know that I am benefiting from it (whether I'm a con or not), is it immoral for me to present both sides of the question and suggest that I believe the operators are legit? For me, they are legit, perhaps only because I have made it too difficult for them to con me. If they are scammers, but smart enough, they can play it in a way that makes it difficult for me to find out for sure if it's a con.
The opportunity exists for a small team to devise a plan that produces the evidence required to prove (to those willing to consider it and smart enough to understand it) that it is a con. You can't prove it isn't a con, because every trusted person can abuse the trust, making the interaction that created the trust into a long con. But you can prove it is a con, IF it is a con. It just takes a lot of work. You can view bitcoin as the "lot of work" required to prove that fiat currency is a long con.
Since they cancelled by April 19th order today (deliver day) with no reason given yet I hope they do eventually come thru and fill my order like I have seen the do for others posting here in the forum.
UPDATE: Like others reported here, I emailed them and got them to reverse the cancellation... and I got my bitcoin!
Since they cancelled by April 19th order today (deliver day) with no reason given yet I hope they do eventually come thru and fill my order like I have seen the do for others posting here in the forum.
Coinbase held true to there word and they reversed the cancellation of my order from Feb. 23rd. Today I received my original order of 10 BTC that I purchased for $286. Next time hopefully it wont take three weeks. lol!
Let's surmise the existence of those who have great experiences and don't speak up about it, then.
Surely so. But I'm hearing fewer complaints so I assume people are giving up on Coinbase.
Hundreds of complaints? Seriously?
Close to it. Reddit was blowing up for a couple of weeks. That's not to mention the ones that don't complain, whose existence can be at least be surmised if not counted by the number of people that are publicly bitching.
Let's surmise the existence of those who have great experiences and don't speak up about it, then.
Hundreds of complaints? Seriously?
Close to it. Reddit was blowing up for a couple of weeks. That's not to mention the ones that don't complain, whose existence can be at least be surmised if not counted by the number of people that are publicly bitching.
ndex.php?topic=147071.0[/url]The majority of people seem to get their bitcoin with no problems. I know I have.
7 or 8 people on a thread having a positive experience with Coinbase doesn't offset the tens or hundreds of complaints I've seen about them in the past month or two.
Hundreds of complaints? Seriously? Have you actually enumerated the number of people you've seen complaining?
My last communication with coinbase was on March 5th:
"Hi Jared - taking a look at the original thread now. Sorry for the delay, but rest assured we will make it right.
Regards,
Fred"
After three weeks I still have not received my BTC or any indication I ever will. I am never using coinbase again.
"Hi Jared - taking a look at the original thread now. Sorry for the delay, but rest assured we will make it right.
Regards,
Fred"
After three weeks I still have not received my BTC or any indication I ever will. I am never using coinbase again.
ndex.php?topic=147071.0[/url]The majority of people seem to get their bitcoin with no problems. I know I have.
7 or 8 people on a thread having a positive experience with Coinbase doesn't offset the tens or hundreds of complaints I've seen about them in the past month or two.
I am a smaller customer, and I've always gotten my bitcoin from coinbase.
That's good to hear. I don't hear the same story in many other places.
The majority of people seem to get their bitcoin with no problems. I know I have.
Therefore, coinbase could never do anything with your funds. They stand to gain nothing by faking that the orders are fraud.
They're not faking. They have the orders and the cash to back it up. They use the collective clout to get coins on the market and then they divvy them up to themselves and their customers. Not all of their customers get coins. The smaller ones get their money back...someday.
Also, if they're not faking the fraud detection, then wtf is this thread about? ANY legit financial business is going to have fraud detection. They're not scamming or cheating anyone!
I am a smaller customer, and I've always gotten my bitcoin from coinbase.
That's good to hear. I don't hear the same story in many other places.
Therefore, coinbase could never do anything with your funds. They stand to gain nothing by faking that the orders are fraud.
They're not faking. They have the orders and the cash to back it up. They use the collective clout to get coins on the market and then they divvy them up to themselves and their customers. Not all of their customers get coins. The smaller ones get their money back...someday.
I am a smaller customer, and I've always gotten my bitcoin from coinbase.
Therefore, coinbase could never do anything with your funds. They stand to gain nothing by faking that the orders are fraud.
They're not faking. They have the orders and the cash to back it up. They use the collective clout to get coins on the market and then they divvy them up to themselves and their customers. Not all of their customers get coins. The smaller ones get their money back...someday.
Quoted from the other thread on the topic.
Coinbase having a bunch of open orders backed by bank drafts is like a company walking around the Bitcoin market with cash. Not all of those orders are being filled, obviously.
If Coinbase customers want to help fund Coinbase for free while only getting bitcoins every now and then, it's their choice as the informed consumers that they are to be treated like that.
Well, I might as well point out the factual error here. A bank draft is a type of check where the payment is guaranteed to be available by the issuing bank.
Therefore, this is not a "bank draft" but a pending ACH transfer. A pending ACH transfer is not guaranteed by the issuing bank, as there is always a chance that there aren't enough funds in the account to cover the transfer.
EDIT: Source: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/bank_draft.asp#axzz2N0OwxWaU
Therefore, coinbase could never do anything with your funds. They stand to gain nothing by faking that the orders are fraud.
Explain to me how this makes any sense when no funds ever leave the consumer's bank account at any point during the "pending" process.
Coinbase having a bunch of open orders backed by bank drafts is like a company walking around the Bitcoin market with cash. Not all of those orders are being filled, obviously.
If Coinbase customers want to help fund Coinbase for free while only getting bitcoins every now and then, it's their choice as the informed consumers that they are to be treated like that.
Therefore, this is not a "bank draft" but a pending ACH transfer. A pending ACH transfer is not guaranteed by the issuing bank, as there is always a chance that there aren't enough funds in the account to cover the transfer.
EDIT: Source: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/bank_draft.asp#axzz2N0OwxWaU
Therefore, coinbase could never do anything with your funds. They stand to gain nothing by faking that the orders are fraud.
Coinbase blows.
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