Coinbase Insured - page 2. | Bitcointalksearch.org

wasserman99

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Quote from: Onanula on August 30, 2014, 03:38:55 PM

Quote from: AaronCraig on August 30, 2014, 03:24:21 PM

Quote from: unexecuted on August 28, 2014, 02:14:11 AM

What about natural disasters, fire, flood, etc.?
What about kidnap/ransom/extortion of employees?

Exclusions include force majeure
https://support.coinbase.com/customer/portal/articles/1662379-how-is-coinbase-insured-

After thinking about your question more, I'm still unsure, since Kerpupples allegedly said it was due to Bitcoin's tx-malleability issue, and not MtGox itself. Not sure about this one, good question.

"Force majeure" is a general term that encompasses a lot of different circumstances. I've never seen a policy exclude risks due to "force majeure" without defining precisely what those risks are. And in my experience, risks like war, riots, and civil unrest are usually excluded, while risks like flooding, fire, and other natural disasters are usually, but not always, covered.
I would not characterize kidnap, ransom, and extortion as force majeure.

And the whole transaction malleability issue - that might make a good insurance coverage case! (Which would be good for people like me, bad for everyone else.)

It is not hard to protect yourself from malleability issues. I would highly doubt that coinbase wold suffer any losses due to malleability.

When gox disclosed their losses due to malleability, other major exchanges temporary suspended withdrawals, however none of them were vulnerable and were able to resume withdrawals without changes to their processes.

Onanula

newbie

Activity: 18

Merit: 0

Quote from: AaronCraig on August 30, 2014, 03:24:21 PM

Quote from: unexecuted on August 28, 2014, 02:14:11 AM

What about natural disasters, fire, flood, etc.?
What about kidnap/ransom/extortion of employees?

Exclusions include force majeure
https://support.coinbase.com/customer/portal/articles/1662379-how-is-coinbase-insured-

After thinking about your question more, I'm still unsure, since Kerpupples allegedly said it was due to Bitcoin's tx-malleability issue, and not MtGox itself. Not sure about this one, good question.

"Force majeure" is a general term that encompasses a lot of different circumstances. I've never seen a policy exclude risks due to "force majeure" without defining precisely what those risks are. And in my experience, risks like war, riots, and civil unrest are usually excluded, while risks like flooding, fire, and other natural disasters are usually, but not always, covered.
I would not characterize kidnap, ransom, and extortion as force majeure.

And the whole transaction malleability issue - that might make a good insurance coverage case! (Which would be good for people like me, bad for everyone else.)

AaronCraig

newbie

Activity: 26

Merit: 0

Quote from: unexecuted on August 28, 2014, 02:14:11 AM

What about natural disasters, fire, flood, etc.?
What about kidnap/ransom/extortion of employees?

Exclusions include force majeure
https://support.coinbase.com/customer/portal/articles/1662379-how-is-coinbase-insured-

After thinking about your question more, I'm still unsure, since Kerpupples allegedly said it was due to Bitcoin's tx-malleability issue, and not MtGox itself. Not sure about this one, good question.

superbd

newbie

Activity: 30

Merit: 0

Quote from: unexecuted on August 28, 2014, 02:14:11 AM

Interesting. It's good to see Coinbase setting the standard here. Of course, employee infidelity and hacking are just two ways that bitcoins could disappear.

What about physical theft? Summary says that the insurance covers losses due to physical security breach, so presumably physical theft is covered. Missed that in the summary.
What about natural disasters, fire, flood, etc.?
What about kidnap/ransom/extortion of employees?
What about lawful confiscation (usually not covered by policies)?
What are the actual limits of the policy?
Are the limits on a per-account basis (like the FDIC), per occurrence basis, or per policy period?
Was the policy designed to cover the type of hacking that allegedly occurred with Mt. Gox?

Actually, Circle is setting the standard. They've already been insured by marsh - coinbase is catching up. circle is getting ready to haul past coinbase

littlebeetle

newbie

Activity: 45

Merit: 0

Quote from: knifeedge on August 30, 2014, 02:26:23 PM

Their statement is actually very vague and very limited. I wouldnt rely on this insurance.... And especially since coinbase is staying very quite about the bitlicense ordeal, Im starting to put less and less trust in them. I dont even use their service anymore and am eagerly waiting for my circle invite.

What does Circle's insurance information say?

knifeedge

newbie

Activity: 29

Merit: 0

Quote from: unexecuted on August 28, 2014, 02:14:11 AM

Interesting. It's good to see Coinbase setting the standard here. Of course, employee infidelity and hacking are just two ways that bitcoins could disappear.

What about physical theft? Summary says that the insurance covers losses due to physical security breach, so presumably physical theft is covered. Missed that in the summary.
What about natural disasters, fire, flood, etc.?
What about kidnap/ransom/extortion of employees?
What about lawful confiscation (usually not covered by policies)?
What are the actual limits of the policy?
Are the limits on a per-account basis (like the FDIC), per occurrence basis, or per policy period?
Was the policy designed to cover the type of hacking that allegedly occurred with Mt. Gox?

Their statement is actually very vague and very limited. I wouldnt rely on this insurance.... And especially since coinbase is staying very quite about the bitlicense ordeal, Im starting to put less and less trust in them. I dont even use their service anymore and am eagerly waiting for my circle invite.

AriceInWonderland

newbie

Activity: 17

Merit: 0

Quote from: PalmerLaura on August 29, 2014, 12:16:00 AM

Quote from: unexecuted on August 28, 2014, 02:14:11 AM

Interesting. It's good to see Coinbase setting the standard here. Of course, employee infidelity and hacking are just two ways that bitcoins could disappear.

What about physical theft? Summary says that the insurance covers losses due to physical security breach, so presumably physical theft is covered. Missed that in the summary.
What about natural disasters, fire, flood, etc.?
What about kidnap/ransom/extortion of employees?
What about lawful confiscation (usually not covered by policies)?
What are the actual limits of the policy?
Are the limits on a per-account basis (like the FDIC), per occurrence basis, or per policy period?
Was the policy designed to cover the type of hacking that allegedly occurred with Mt. Gox?

Setting the standard for what, deception? 97% of deposits are offline and therefore uninsured.

Exactly - cold storage is not insured. I am not impressed at all.

wasserman99

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Quote from: LiteCoinGuy on August 28, 2014, 06:48:07 AM

to all noobs:

It doesn’t cover bitcoin lost or stolen as a result of an individual user’s negligence to maintain secure control over their login credentials.

This message should also be addressed to scammers as I am sure that coinbase likely received at least 100 claims that bitcoin was "stolen" out of their account.

Drendas

newbie

Activity: 15

Merit: 0

Quote from: PalmerLaura on August 29, 2014, 12:16:00 AM

Quote from: unexecuted on August 28, 2014, 02:14:11 AM

Interesting. It's good to see Coinbase setting the standard here. Of course, employee infidelity and hacking are just two ways that bitcoins could disappear.

What about physical theft? Summary says that the insurance covers losses due to physical security breach, so presumably physical theft is covered. Missed that in the summary.
What about natural disasters, fire, flood, etc.?
What about kidnap/ransom/extortion of employees?
What about lawful confiscation (usually not covered by policies)?
What are the actual limits of the policy?
Are the limits on a per-account basis (like the FDIC), per occurrence basis, or per policy period?
Was the policy designed to cover the type of hacking that allegedly occurred with Mt. Gox?

Setting the standard for what, deception? 97% of deposits are offline and therefore uninsured.

True. Policy limits on the hot wallets probably aren't more than a few million.
If cold storage is as safe as Coinbase claims, then it should be able to get a separate policy on the cold storage for a much lower premium per dollar of policy limits.

Bizzaran

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Quote from: logger on August 29, 2014, 01:32:04 AM

Quote from: unexecuted on August 28, 2014, 02:14:11 AM

Interesting. It's good to see Coinbase setting the standard here. Of course, employee infidelity and hacking are just two ways that bitcoins could disappear.

What about physical theft? Summary says that the insurance covers losses due to physical security breach, so presumably physical theft is covered. Missed that in the summary.
What about natural disasters, fire, flood, etc.?
What about kidnap/ransom/extortion of employees?
What about lawful confiscation (usually not covered by policies)?
What are the actual limits of the policy?
Are the limits on a per-account basis (like the FDIC), per occurrence basis, or per policy period?
Was the policy designed to cover the type of hacking that allegedly occurred with Mt. Gox?

but "The insurance covers losses due to breaches in physical or cyber security and employee theft."

It's good to know that they are covered in the event of someone stealing their employees.

AllYouCanDo

newbie

Activity: 23

Merit: 0

Quote from: logger on August 29, 2014, 01:32:04 AM

but "The insurance covers losses due to breaches in physical or cyber security and employee theft."

U dont want crazy karpeles bs goin on

logger

member

Activity: 138

Merit: 10

Quote from: unexecuted on August 28, 2014, 02:14:11 AM

Interesting. It's good to see Coinbase setting the standard here. Of course, employee infidelity and hacking are just two ways that bitcoins could disappear.

What about physical theft? Summary says that the insurance covers losses due to physical security breach, so presumably physical theft is covered. Missed that in the summary.
What about natural disasters, fire, flood, etc.?
What about kidnap/ransom/extortion of employees?
What about lawful confiscation (usually not covered by policies)?
What are the actual limits of the policy?
Are the limits on a per-account basis (like the FDIC), per occurrence basis, or per policy period?
Was the policy designed to cover the type of hacking that allegedly occurred with Mt. Gox?

but "The insurance covers losses due to breaches in physical or cyber security and employee theft."

CoolBliss

member

Activity: 97

Merit: 10

Google "Meridian Global Insurance Limited" Xapo's insurance company, see what turns up... http://help.xapo.com/questions/89743-Is-Xapo-insured-by-a-third-party-insurance-company

PalmerLaura

member

Activity: 116

Merit: 10

IPSX: Distributed Network Layer

Quote from: unexecuted on August 28, 2014, 02:14:11 AM

Interesting. It's good to see Coinbase setting the standard here. Of course, employee infidelity and hacking are just two ways that bitcoins could disappear.

What about physical theft? Summary says that the insurance covers losses due to physical security breach, so presumably physical theft is covered. Missed that in the summary.
What about natural disasters, fire, flood, etc.?
What about kidnap/ransom/extortion of employees?
What about lawful confiscation (usually not covered by policies)?
What are the actual limits of the policy?
Are the limits on a per-account basis (like the FDIC), per occurrence basis, or per policy period?
Was the policy designed to cover the type of hacking that allegedly occurred with Mt. Gox?

Setting the standard for what, deception? 97% of deposits are offline and therefore uninsured.

Bitcoinpro

legendary

Activity: 1358

Merit: 1000

Quote from: oceans on August 28, 2014, 06:29:53 AM

I'm seeing this as it being them who are insured not their customers which means it's a good thing but not in terms of their customers who really could do with some kind of insurance for times when they fall to any bad losses. Hopefully in time something will be implemented.

We can speculate alot we need to see the insurance contract and how does it refer to the clients

in reality the client should be able to make a claim directly to the insurance company for this

to be of any benefit.

LiteCoinGuy

legendary

Activity: 1148

Merit: 1014

In Satoshi I Trust

to all noobs:

It doesn’t cover bitcoin lost or stolen as a result of an individual user’s negligence to maintain secure control over their login credentials.

oceans

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 250

I'm seeing this as it being them who are insured not their customers which means it's a good thing but not in terms of their customers who really could do with some kind of insurance for times when they fall to any bad losses. Hopefully in time something will be implemented.

BitCoinDream

legendary

Activity: 2394

Merit: 1216

The revolution will be digital

Quote from: haploid23 on August 27, 2014, 05:26:11 PM

Quote from: BitCoinDream on August 27, 2014, 04:59:15 PM

They are insured, NOT their customers. I have made the exit strategy bold. Moreover, what would happen for an address collision is not clear.

When does ANY exchange insure lost bitcoins for an individual's own negligence? If they do insure these types of lost btc, then it's open for a lot of abuse. It's the equivalent of a chargeback.

On the contrary, this clause can be used to give all the responsibility on customer for gross negligence.

StatusSeeking

member

Activity: 78

Merit: 10

wonder if by "online storage" they mean the percentage they keep available to trade (didn't they say this is like 3% or something?), or their cold storage wallets.

Bitcoinpro

legendary

Activity: 1358

Merit: 1000

They have not provided a copy of their insurance contract and if their is a flash crash

on their own servers which they are in control and could even spread to other exchanges what

price will they payout, i would suggest the highest of all the 30-60-90 averages including

subset averages begging certain time frames before any events started unfolding,

if the price was to run down one week or one month before they declared an insurance cover

then the average price should be calculated before the price rundown, these tactics where

used very successfully up to 2-3 months before its was completely obvious mtgox was about

to go bankrupt.

Topic: Coinbase Insured - page 2. (Read 5768 times)