Coinbase Ordered to Turn Over Identities of 14,355 Cryptocurrency Traders > IRS

squatter

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Quote from: dylanbitcoin2 on December 06, 2017, 02:52:14 AM

Do they mean 20,000 active balance or do they mean if you purchase coins in coinbase at any time in 2015 your info is now sent to the irs?

I purchased 7 bitcoins in 2015 for $300 i think. so $2100 worth....

now they would be worth over 70 grand!!!! so upset i know. but i been sold these on localbitcoins and i forgot my login and password to that site. so no proof that i sold them for only a few hundred....

confused if im rerpoted to the irs?? if i bought 7 bitcoins in 2015.. (they were worth less than 20 grand total. at the time)

My reading of the ruling is that you must have had $20,000 worth of transactions in any one year during the 2013-2015 period to be reported. Based on what you said, this doesn't affect you. And technically, even if Coinbase did give your info to the IRS, that info wouldn't prove that capital gains occurred since you didn't sell them on Coinbase.

That said, companies like Coinbase and Gemini work closely with law enforcement and regulators and they are tightly regulated since they are based in the US. They comply with individual requests from the IRS all the time. So you should always be ready for your exchange activity to be given to the IRS.....

dylanbitcoin2

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Do they mean 20,000 active balance or do they mean if you purchase coins in coinbase at any time in 2015 your info is now sent to the irs?

I purchased 7 bitcoins in 2015 for $300 i think. so $2100 worth....

now they would be worth over 70 grand!!!! so upset i know. but i been sold these on localbitcoins and i forgot my login and password to that site. so no proof that i sold them for only a few hundred....

confused if im rerpoted to the irs?? if i bought 7 bitcoins in 2015.. (they were worth less than 20 grand total. at the time)

marky89

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Quote from: Harlot on December 05, 2017, 02:34:55 PM

Some people here think that it is the government who is the one abusing their power here but its actually the government who have saved the day as the cryptocurrency traders are the ones who are getting away with big income without even being taxed.

I guess the Bitcoin community really has strayed from its libertarian roots, eh? Now enforcing capital gains taxes on bitcoin investors is seen as "saving the day!" How far we've come in only a few years! Tongue

Personally, I don't understand why Coinbase and similar exchanges that are based in the US don't send out 1099s (to the IRS and to customers). Regulated brokers are required to do so. It's never been clear to me why these requirements don't extend to Bitcoin exchanges. I'm pretty sure that regulations will be passed which require exchanges to send 1099s if taxable transactions exceed a certain threshold.

Quote from: Kingofbitcoin12345 on December 05, 2017, 02:27:33 AM

This is the ultimate reason I’m not fan of Coinbase as it is centralized already..

I've been telling my friends for years: you should expect that any exchange licensed in the US will give your records to regulators. I remember Brian Armstrong saying something about wanting Coinbase to be "the most compliant" exchange in the space. Go figure.

Harlot

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Some people here think that it is the government who is the one abusing their power here but its actually the government who have saved the day as the cryptocurrency traders are the ones who are getting away with big income without even being taxed. They are people who are being unjustly enriched by Bitcoim's features. Also a good job for CoinBase on having their profiles prepared.

Kingofbitcoin12345

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This is the ultimate reason I’m not fan of Coinbase as it is centralized already.. I do have an account and used it for a while but if I have verified it then that must be the biggest mistake in my life.. In that alone I’m totally safe with this kind of privacy breach.. But still I condemn any kind of legislation or regulation this way if it was really not criminally associated with anyone.. Those must be exposed are illegally used bitcoin for criminal acts and that only be selective turn over of identity of a suspect..

BlackRock

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Should not effect many people as coinbase has already collected KYC documents and people who have bought should be very well aware that coinbase is based in US and will accessible to US regulators.Most of them have bought with tax paid money and may be holding bitcoin as investment and not for trading.Even if they are trading the must have paid taxes on profits.Even if they have not paid taxes,they will be subjected to penalty

anon516

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Can the decision be appealed? Or has Coinbase conceded now?

bambazamba

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IRS has always had its eyes on Bitcoin . This was very likely to happen actually . With the massive increase of participants in the coinbase the transactions also increased . IRS looks and seeks for one reason , a single loop hole that may lead to some questionings on Bitcoin . Here are like 14,355 Traders . There will might be a proper investigation by IRS in this case .
This is very obvious that with the number of increase in investments and tradings in Bitcoin , the "potential" frauds and suspected transactions might also take place.

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Quote from: figmentofmyass on December 01, 2017, 04:03:44 PM

Quote from: HasHe on November 30, 2017, 07:54:34 PM

That was really an expected move and no government would be ready to allow traders to go go without being taxed.It has only asked details of customers who have transactions more than $20,000 and i think that it would be a kind of relief for thousands of other customers who had very less amount of transactions.

it's a relief, but it's also a wake-up call. i think this whole IRS/coinbase fiasco was about shaking cryptocurrency traders into tax compliance. it was less about pursuing actual cases against traders. 2013-2015 at that threshold won't net that much tax revenue. this is about establishing precedent now and forcing today's traders in 2017/2018 into paying their taxes. if you're trading on coinbase in 2018 and not paying your taxes, you're in for a rude awakening a few years down the road.

that said, coinbase has been complying with IRS requests for years. you certainly can't trust them with your privacy, regardless of this case.

I think this is well, this was a cautionary shoot, the IRS is basically saying come to us and pay your taxes or we are going to go after you, so for all of those that need to pay their taxes please do it so you can avoid to have to deal with penalties or even jail time.

Kronos21

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It will be a serious blow to the reputation. At a time when people used Coinbase for the exchange of bitcoins of such claims was not. It seems to me that the law should not be retroactive. Such laws should use the period since the signing of the law. As the protection of personal data? Man was not given permission to disclose such information.

jerry0

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What other sites do this? Only us sites right? Do sites like gemini does this?

Patatas

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Shouldn't this be in service discussion ? Why is coinbase being considered such an important part of bitcoin lol it is just an exchange.

Quote from: eternalgloom on December 01, 2017, 07:26:01 PM

This was to be expected, I mean if you bought coins at Coinbase and weren't expecting this, you've been pretty oblivious to all the signs on the wall imo.
They already lock your account for sending coins to addresses that they don't approve of, coin mixers or even casino's, just search on Google for stories.

Google ? All those links will get you back on bitcointalk.Despite of the fact coinbase works alongside NSA and the FBI,they heavily manipulate the prices of bitcoin.

Quote from: eternalgloom on December 01, 2017, 07:26:01 PM

If anything, I hope this will encourage more people to use decentralized exchanges, they aren't really too popular at the moment.

A good alternative to decentralized exchanges are peer to peer networks like localbitcoins.A little authority over the service but still better than sending user data to the governments.

eternalgloom

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This was to be expected, I mean if you bought coins at Coinbase and weren't expecting this, you've been pretty oblivious to all the signs on the wall imo.
They already lock your account for sending coins to addresses that they don't approve of, coin mixers or even casino's, just search on Google for stories.

If anything, I hope this will encourage more people to use decentralized exchanges, they aren't really too popular at the moment.

South Park

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Quote from: Cozy on November 30, 2017, 07:18:18 PM

My question is what about those who used coinbase after 2015 what about those customers?

Simple, they are not included in this resolution, so for now they are safe, but prepare yourself, if you are a big bitcoin holder that has its bitcoin in coinbase then it is very likely the taxman is going to knock at your door to collect his share of the profits.

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: HasHe on November 30, 2017, 07:54:34 PM

That was really an expected move and no government would be ready to allow traders to go go without being taxed.It has only asked details of customers who have transactions more than $20,000 and i think that it would be a kind of relief for thousands of other customers who had very less amount of transactions.

it's a relief, but it's also a wake-up call. i think this whole IRS/coinbase fiasco was about shaking cryptocurrency traders into tax compliance. it was less about pursuing actual cases against traders. 2013-2015 at that threshold won't net that much tax revenue. this is about establishing precedent now and forcing today's traders in 2017/2018 into paying their taxes. if you're trading on coinbase in 2018 and not paying your taxes, you're in for a rude awakening a few years down the road.

that said, coinbase has been complying with IRS requests for years. you certainly can't trust them with your privacy, regardless of this case.

dhka

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I am no US citizen and know nothing about its tax policy, but to me it is clearly government wants some share of the profit, but it is pretty normal I guess

I'd rather see my government do that than speculation to ban or something, just accept new technology and adapt Grin

HasHe

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That was really an expected move and no government would be ready to allow traders to go go without being taxed.It has only asked details of customers who have transactions more than $20,000 and i think that it would be a kind of relief for thousands of other customers who had very less amount of transactions.

Maveth13

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Name, birthdate, freaking ADDRESS and account activity? These are huge informations. At this point they have taken away the ability to be anonymous/pseudo-anonymous by using bitcoins. I'm sure their next step is to tax these people. Taxes on $20,000+ income is a lot of money, assuming they'd be taxed the same way as forex traders.

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Quote from: uszaty43 on November 30, 2017, 06:55:03 PM

But what are their real purposes? We all know that they only want to make as much money as they can.

I dont understand what are their real purposes, probably most of those people who were moving $25,000 on the past, were those who were lucky and could buy bitcoin when it was less than $100-200 each bitcoin, and they wanted to sell it when it was probably $300 or $500, who knows?

Now that the price is very high, it doesnt mean that they are tax evasors, it is all the opposite, they want to make profit from that, and if they dont pay the taxes, they go to jail.

But not even 2 of 10 users from those are still using coinbase, who would be holding 300k in coinbase? nobody.

Do you have any statistics that would led you to believe there is nobody holding more than 300k in coinbase? Nor in Gdax?

Th real purposes are simple. You make a profit (revenue) it is going to be taxed. This is how it was way before cryptos.
But some lived with the impression that with BTC tax evasion season will open up. Not the case.

Furthermore:

Quote from: cindygirl on November 30, 2017, 06:11:53 PM

It's no shock to see the courts ruling in the IRS's favour and against cryptocurrencies. I hope that somehow this can be fought off and such things can be overcome in the future, I do not know the ins and outs of the law but it seems to me that companies should not be able to hand over individuals details without foretelling them that they will do so.

Who ruled something against cryptos?
I really don't understand what is against cryptos at this point?
Treating them like commodities and making the users pay their taxes just as they do when trading commodities?
Why should I pay taxes on trading tomatoes and you trading bitcoins should be excluded ?

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: cindygirl on November 30, 2017, 06:11:53 PM

It's no shock to see the courts ruling in the IRS's favour and against cryptocurrencies.

more than that, the writing was on the wall when the IRS made the original request. it was a very obvious fishing expedition. legal experts from e.g. coincenter were speculating immediately afterwards that the request would be denied, but that a second "reasonably narrowed" request would likely be approved. in other words, the initial IRS request was just a bargaining chip to net as many accounts as possible in the subsequent court order.

Quote from: cindygirl on November 30, 2017, 06:11:53 PM

I hope that somehow this can be fought off and such things can be overcome in the future, I do not know the ins and outs of the law but it seems to me that companies should not be able to hand over individuals details without foretelling them that they will do so.

not gonna happen. coinbase is an MSB under tight AML/KYC regulations, and they are under the jurisdiction of the IRS regardless of where their customers reside.

regulated brokers are usually required to send their clients 1099s (which are also sent to the IRS). i think it's pretty likely that exchanges like coinbase will need to comply with these requirements in the future.

Topic: Coinbase Ordered to Turn Over Identities of 14,355 Cryptocurrency Traders > IRS (Read 1126 times)