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Topic: CoinJoin Alternatives to Wasabi - page 2. (Read 639 times)

legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 18771
May 02, 2022, 02:57:06 AM
#10
Blockchain analysis is ultimately a process of deduction and induction.
A process which becomes much easier when the centralized coordinator is actively working with blockchain analysis companies and handing over all the data they collect.

Like I said, the main advantage of Sparrow Wallet is that it never relies on Samourai servers, even when you are not connecting to your personal bitcoin full node. Having not configured to retrieve information from blockchain via your node, it will connect to one of the public Electrum servers as if you were using a regular Electrum wallet. However, in this case, doing mixing is kinda pointless because the Electrum server can learn all pre-mix and even post-mix transactions and learn that they belong to the same wallet.
A genuine question then, since I've never used Sparrow - how do you use it privately? Can you connect it to your own node directly, or do you need to run an Electrum server first? If I'm already running a Samourai Dojo server, can it connect to that instead? Other than platform availability, what are the advantages of Sparrow?
legendary
Activity: 2464
Merit: 4415
🔐BitcoinMessage.Tools🔑
May 02, 2022, 02:11:50 AM
#9
I would go further and say you absolutely should connect it to your own node. Samourai suffers from the same issue as does every light wallet, in that the entity running the server you connect to can link all your addresses together (as well as your IP, but obviously you should be running over Tor). The only way to avoid this is to interact exclusively with your own node. For Samourai, this means running a Dojo server: https://samouraiwallet.com/dojo
Like I said, the main advantage of Sparrow Wallet is that it never relies on Samourai servers, even when you are not connecting to your personal bitcoin full node. Having not configured to retrieve information from blockchain via your node, it will connect to one of the public Electrum servers as if you were using a regular Electrum wallet. However, in this case, doing mixing is kinda pointless because the Electrum server can learn all pre-mix and even post-mix transactions and learn that they belong to the same wallet.

If main Wasabi coordinator is not accepting my Bitcoin for mixing than I will consider Wasabi and main coordinator to be scam also.
I also remember Chainalysis demixed transactions made by Wasabi wallet related with DAO hack when 50 BTC was sent to Wasabi wallet, and that was published by journalist Laura Shin.
I think that Bitfinex hackers also sent coins to Wasabi wallet and they got caught... so this doesn't sound like very private to me :/
It would be even worse than scamming, it would be selective scamming in which they can doxx users they don't like while providing services to those who have access to institutional "clean" capital. Hypocritical selective scamming, censorship and privacy invasion to make more money is now their motto.

Any CJ transaction, regardless of the implementation that creates the transaction, has the potential for an observer to link each input with each output, especially long after the fact.

Blockchain analysis is ultimately a process of deduction and induction. So if one CJ participant engages in poor privacy practices long after a CJ transaction occurs, it may give a blockchain analysis company additional information about the composition of the CJ transaction.
It is because CoinJoin has never been about "breaking" the link between the past and the future, but rather the obfuscation of the said link. Definitely not an ideal approach to provide decent protection. Your privacy is now dependent on the actions of others, it is as strong as the weakest link - the stupidest participant of the CoinJoin transaction.

copper member
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1901
Amazon Prime Member #7
May 01, 2022, 04:33:27 PM
#8
Any CJ transaction, regardless of the implementation that creates the transaction, has the potential for an observer to link each input with each output, especially long after the fact.

Blockchain analysis is ultimately a process of deduction and induction. So if one CJ participant engages in poor privacy practices long after a CJ transaction occurs, it may give a blockchain analysis company additional information about the composition of the CJ transaction.
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 7064
May 01, 2022, 04:08:44 PM
#7
Use JoinMarket, Chaincase or alternative Wasabi coordinators. Samourai is a scam, it's all marketing, zero privacy.
If main Wasabi coordinator is not accepting my Bitcoin for mixing than I will consider Wasabi and main coordinator to be scam also.
I also remember Chainalysis demixed transactions made by Wasabi wallet related with DAO hack when 50 BTC was sent to Wasabi wallet, and that was published by journalist Laura Shin.
I think that Bitfinex hackers also sent coins to Wasabi wallet and they got caught... so this doesn't sound like very private to me :/
member
Activity: 103
Merit: 327
May 01, 2022, 08:53:02 AM
#6
Use JoinMarket, Chaincase or alternative Wasabi coordinators. Samourai is a scam, it's all marketing, zero privacy.
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 18771
April 27, 2022, 08:47:12 AM
#5
You can connect it to your own Bitcoin Core full node or your personal Electrum server to preserve privacy.
I would go further and say you absolutely should connect it to your own node. Samourai suffers from the same issue as does every light wallet, in that the entity running the server you connect to can link all your addresses together (as well as your IP, but obviously you should be running over Tor). The only way to avoid this is to interact exclusively with your own node. For Samourai, this means running a Dojo server: https://samouraiwallet.com/dojo
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 7064
April 27, 2022, 06:37:13 AM
#4
Also, if there are any other CoinJoin services that are EASY to use (for beginners), please share!
I know some people had many complains regarding Samourai coinjoin implementation, and they are even calling it a scam, so be aware of that.
There is one more option that is in my opinion good alternative for coinjoin, it is simple to use and it's called Mercury wallet.
Mercury is open source Layer 2 Bitcoin wallet for sending and swapping bitcoin privately, and it is based on transferring of private keys with something called statechains.

Here is one interesting talk about Coinjoins and Coinswaps: Collaborative Bitcoin Transactions from Bitcoin 2022 Conference:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iydrfoxxAsY

legendary
Activity: 2464
Merit: 4415
🔐BitcoinMessage.Tools🔑
April 27, 2022, 03:42:25 AM
#3
1)  Can we use Whirlpool without the Samourai wallet?  That would make it a good alternative to Wasabi.
The Samourai wallet is just one of the clients for Samourai Whirlpool implementation. If you don't like mixing on your mobile, just install another client, for example a desktop client called Sparrow Wallet. Sparrow wallet doesn't use Samourai servers to receive the information about transactions or UTXOs. You can connect it to your own Bitcoin Core full node or your personal Electrum server to preserve privacy.

You can find more information here: https://sparrowwallet.com/docs/mixing-whirlpool.html

Also, if there are any other CoinJoin services that are EASY to use (for beginners), please share!
Maybe
JoinMarket https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket-clientserver
+
JoinMarket WebUI https://github.com/joinmarket-webui/joinmarket-webui
legendary
Activity: 3472
Merit: 3217
Playbet.io - Crypto Casino and Sportsbook
April 26, 2022, 06:37:54 PM
#2
From your first question according to their documentation, you will need the samourai wallet in order to use whirlpool.
Read the guide from this source below

- https://bitcoiner.guide/whirlpool/

Then straight and look for "How do I use Whirlpool?"


About the 2nd question, I heard Coinjoin many times with wasabi but on the website coinjoin.io I never heard of that site.
However, it seems there is someone mentioned it here on the forum but it is under a scam website check them here below

- https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/scams-bitcoin-mixers-list-and-services-closed-5381839
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1895
April 26, 2022, 04:41:33 PM
#1
...

Having noted Wasabi's decision to block certain UTXOs from their service, I did a quick 'n' dirty look into alternatives.  My casual search yielded the below two services:

-- coinjoin.io   <--- never heard of them   apparent scam, see next post

-- https://samouraiwallet.com/download/whirlpool, a service of Samourai

It looks like Whirlpool has an app that you can download at the above link, it also looks like that you can download it to Windows and Linux desktop computers, not just to "Google phones".


My questions are:

1)  Can we use Whirlpool without the Samourai wallet?  That would make it a good alternative to Wasabi.

2)  Has anyone tried or heard of coinjoin.io?


Related, I read an article on a coinjoin service a week or two ago, it looked like Whirlpool (not sure though, and it was NOT via the link above).  The article mentioned that you can run your BTC through the service more than once (yet just pay for the first CJ), the article explained that doing that meant more privacy / harder to break.  If I understand correctly, Whirlpool might be a great alternative to Wasabi.


Also, if there are any other CoinJoin services that are EASY to use (for beginners), please share!


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