Topic: CoinTerra Unveils a 2TH/s ASIC Bitcoin Miner : TerraMiner IV (Read 18654 times)

Goodbye Cointerra, and good riddance. Save some money for your bankruptcy lawyers.

http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-mining-firm-cointerra-files-chapter-7-bankruptcy/

Your TerraMiner II that is set to be shipped on January 14 looks really interesting. 1 TH/s at $3500USD and a power utilization of 600 Watts (0.6 Watts/GH) and “only” $3.5 a GH looks extremely interesting.

http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/fa1b28edd8

As they say. If it sounds to good to be true it probably is.
I for one will make an order if you escrow or PP or use some other reversible payment. Sorry but we have been fucked over one to many times. Your team looks awesome. A European manufacturer/distributor would be advised as many of us are sick of shipping (shipping/customs time) custom fees and shipping fees and worst the satanic rape tax from items from outside of the EU. As a company you can avoid the import tax to Europe if the devices are assembled in the EU. Something as trivial as dropping in a PSU can be considered “manufacturing”. Pick a EU country that has ultra low taxes to send the items from that EU country. That way other EU countries wont get smacked with say a 25% (like the Nordic countries) import tax. They would just pay what the other EU sending country has to pay in VAT.  Not sure if things have change with the laws in the last 6 years but this is how we would get things done back then.

looks like not many forum people are ordering their stuff. will others do? are they selling large numbers ?

Yeah i was going through cointerra's faq looking for it.. 

Yes, although to be fair I don't think Cointerra has released cooling specs/info, neither have a couple other companies.

Thanks for the link...




I forgot about that.. KNC dropped plans to water cool a while back if im not mistaken. I wonder if they will regret it.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/break-even-difficulty-by-hardware-efficiency-power-cost-value-of-btc-281279

If I had to guess, probably HashFast because water cooling comes as the stock cooling solution.

Impressive indeed, when you put it like that! I wonder who has the most energy efficient asic? At the same time i wonder who's chip has the most headroom, in terms of overclocking..

I think they are estimating 1,200w... pretty impressive really considering a four module Avalon is 110 Gh @ 975w

Sorry if this has already been asked but what is the power draw on these things? Anyone know?

How this type of story fits into Anandtech's "cub-scout badge" journalism model beats me. Which staffer covers this story, the wastepaper basket?

Thanks for the link.

"Q: Finally, how do you assuage feelings from users who have wanted ASICs but have been stung by long wait times?  Will you be having regular updates with the community regarding the status of the products?

A: We plan to have a blog and have a person assigned to communicate to purchasers." 

Lolz.

Cointerra in Anandtech:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7246/the-rush-to-bitcoin-asics-ravi-iyengar-launches-cointerra

Still not cheap enough to satisfy Paypal's maximum transaction price of US$10,000.

They promised to use Paypal as a secure payment processor, this offering sufficient consumer protection.

I guess you do not mind preorders because you did not preorder BFL, bASIC, Avalon batch #2 and #3 and Avalon chips.

No matter how hard we try to warn noobs, more and more noobs will flood the Bitcoin ecosystem, they will arrive completely blinded by greed, and they will throw their money into these pre-order schemes while dreaming about getting rich quick.

Sad.

http://www.coindesk.com/cointerra-cuts-price-of-terraminer-iv-bitcoin-mining-rig/

price reduced from $15,750 to $13,999

approx $7 per Gh which makes it cheaper than BFL.

Will

Only ASICMINER seems to be able to do this (and that is why they can charge high prices and people still buy from them). Why can't the others? C'mon give us some real competition!

Under this scenario, http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/90782dc52a , the difficulty would be 557 billion by the end of 2014. That would be almost 4,000 petahash. Even at $1 a gigahash, that is $4 billion worth of hardware, not to get into the electricity consumption.

I think this scenario is more likely:
http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/e9b41de60d
That is 2 billion for January (yes it says august), which is unrealistically high, with a 400 million increase, every month. that is another 2.8ish petahash a month.

Of course all numbers a can be thrown out the window if there is another bubble before then.

Sounds clever but is untrue. Risk is the potential for *loss*, which may or may not translate into potential for profit.  Stupid risks -- walking out into traffic, investing in Equestria real estate -- offer dubious profit potential.


Because they get a higher profit/time by selling miners than by mining them?  If they make 90% profit by selling each miner at 45 BTC, and they feel the market could bear plenty of miners, why not sell miners, instead of mining for a year & only getting 10% profit?  Come on, this is basic.


See my answer above.

This.  Preorder = risk.  Risk is the potential for profit.  I thing people are going to be terribly disapointed once companies have units in stock for immediate delivery.  Look at ASICMiner as an example.  I mean once built a company can do the same math a consumer can.  Future cashflow can be reduced to net present value.  If a company has a miner and it has a net present value of 50 BTC why would they sell it for less than 50 BTC?  They could simply use it to mine and generate >50 BTC.  Now if a company runs out of space, or power they may sell excess capacity for slightly less than net present value to increase demand but they days of massive "potential" profits are over.  100%, 200%, 300% gains per year.  Never going to happen with in stock miners.  Maybe 10% or 20% if you buy at the right time, have the right climate (cooling costs), and the low electrical costs.

Once again look at ASICMiner blade prices.  This is the same equipment used by ASICMiner.  People complain the prices are so high that all the potential profit is gone.  As the CEO of ASICMiner why would you see it for less?  If they (using their own projections on difficulty growth) project a blade will earn X BTC (discounted for risk & time value of money) it makes no sense to sell it for significantly less than X.  Shareholders would simply be subsidizing the profits of the buyers.  As a CEO looking to maximize the return for shareholder it doesn't really matter where the revenue comes from (sales or mining) the goal is to maximize revenue.

That being said some companies (BFL) have taken this to an asinine extreme so some backlack is inevitable but like you I really don't think most people appreciate what "in stock" prices are going to mean.  Another way to look at it is imagine you have a rig (or rigs) which produce 2 TH/s.  What would YOU sell it for?

you may want to revisit http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/ and set shipping date to jan/2014

10k is still way overpriced

they are supposed to announce their remaining product line "by the end of the month" unless they miss their second self imposed deadline. 

i think they must decide to ship 3x hashpower for the same price or slash prices by a third to live up to their own hype and leave any meat on the bone for their customers... or implement a SERIOUS protection plan. guarantee a return of invested btc, minimum, for anyone to take them seriously.

Oh, I don't mind preorders. I think a lot of people will be terribly dissapointed when they realize that no preorder means no profit.

Why would you sell a product in hand for less than you would get from mining with it?  Are there any asic manufacturers listed as charities?

16k still too expensive. I would purchase immediately for 10k though.

nicely spoken

Tired of all the pre-announcements.   How about selling when your product is ready and ready to ship?

If they had some sort of miner protection plan in place it could make it viable. But they've yet to answer my inquiries about it and have not heard anymore since they said they were going to have a very "friendly" policy for delays (which is counter to their terms of sale).

http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/

set to december

never roi

they HAVE to reboot prices or increase hash power to ever sell a unit

if it were $4,000 cheaper, it would roi for about 2 seconds then become unprofitable and that is if difficulty does NOT increase any faster (fat chance!)

  I dont think many buyer for high end price and you are not going to preorder for 15kUSD for it.

Haven't heard anything new in a few days. I wonder if lots of people are buying these units?

It seems like competitors will be able to demolish these prices by the time December rolls around. Who cares about efficiency at this point in the game?

Do you think they will try again or stick with BFL's prices?

I think about this a lot.  This is why I made my website, to keep people informed of the best deals and support the companies that are keeping bitcoin decentralized.  If the greater share of the hashrate is controlled by a few large farms growth, stability and the core nature of bitcoin can become compromised.

What are the details of your miner protection plan equivalent?

You have not posted any details and your terms of sale leave much to be desired.

More retarded argument of the day. Did you know about Bitpay? Consumer pays in BTC, company gets USD.

Not accepting BTC is simply ridiculous.

Looking for places to invest. Nothing to see here.

good luck, even if they could accept cc. ROI negative

but let this thread, die!

If you can keep your schedule and accept CC payments, I can see this as a viable option.

Now the most important step for you is to have some device hashing in front of the cameras to prove your capabilities.

How far away are the first ASIC engineering samples?

This.  Company can price in USD, customer pays in BTC and company receives USD in bank account the next day.  This isn't theoretical multiple ASIC manufacturers have done this to date.

Your entire statement can be refuted with one word.

Bitpay


Not taking Bitcoin is like trying to sell grandma's hand-rolled tortilla's in Mexico and not accepting Peso's.

"Unveil" usually means actually having something to show.

This whole "ASIC era" of bitcoin is turning out to be some real sad bullshit.

To a CFO, or such investors as there might be, it make total sense to not accept BTC.  Every day's orders, a different sales price.  The extreme volatility.  The lack of liquidity and low cost cost exchange.  We all know the issues.

And, I'd hazard a guess: every single component of the product has to be paid in USD.  

So I can see a CFO saying, were the product already produced, "Okay, accept them.  I'll see what I can do in terms of risk management."  But to do so at t=0, with USD payments having to be made at t in {1...120}.  Not really insane at all.

in dec 2013 / jan 14 at 15K price lol ?

They're doing a very good job of optimizing to their environment, which does include customers basically throwing money at them in exchange for an early delivery...

Live by the unregulated wild west of Bitcoin, die by the unregulated wild west of Bitcoin?

If you don't like what they're offering, just don't buy.  Pretty simple.

I suppose if you had no idea what bitcoins were or how mining worked, it would seem like a great deal. Half the cost, half the power consumption of knc, it does sound like a good deal.

Perhaps the folks at cointerra should spend some more time on the bitcoin wiki?

this announcement seems like it was made by engineers who thought it would be cool and very lucrative to jump on the bitcoin bandwagon, but don't understand the bitcoin ecosystem.

It does seem to be a bit of an over saturated market with all these preorders going around right now. No idea what the difficulty will be in December.

For smart people to go through all the trouble of even thinking of starting an asic company, I assumed they must know something I don't. If that is as cheap as cointerra can make products for, then maybe a levelling out of the hashrate is on the horizon.

But why try to release a product with very little chance of making any money? Both for cointerra or potential customers, it seems like both sides are going to lose.

At current prices if they are late one month (which as we've seen thus far in ASIC R&D that is very possible) then they will not ROI. I don't get how Cointerra thinks this is a good deal... I may still purchase one in my diversified group buy.. just to diversify a little more, but nothing like I would have ordered had they been looking out for their customers when deciding prices.  

Cointerra needs a miner protection program and I'll get free chips if they're late. If Cointerra is late, all I'll get is a loss of half my investment.  

I just don't get not accepting BTC.  That just seems insane.  They have to be the only ASIC/FPGA company yet that doesn't accept BTC.

They dropped the bomb on overprice miner for late delivery and they dont accept BTC, someone should get fired. Good luck on the arms race to be a threat to competition because the hype is over...

Dear Cointerra,

At what point does shockingly under-delivering on hype become over inflated expectations by your customers.  Our expectations were simple, we expected to be able to buy a mining device we could actually turn a profit with.

 - Low shipping cost?  Exactly how is $260/device inexpensive shipping?  
 - Energy efficiency?  Had these units had the possibility of returning initial investment before churning along at just over electricity costs this would have been a selling point.  Would you personally purchase a mining device for $15k that will most likely only return $12k over its functional life time?
 - Complete package?  What additional costs are you saving us over the competitors... A 600W PSU will set us back maybe $80.
 - Order queue trading?  All this does is over-inflate your pre-orders by people who have no intention of actually taking shipment.  Am I buying a miner or speculating on selling my place in line?

Put yourself in your customers shoes and evaluate your own products cost/benefit before trying to pin our disappointment on "Inflated Expectations".

Edit...
If you are wondering why many are so upset, it's because most of us actually believed your hype and exited other investments to prepare for this pre-order.  I feel deliberately mislead.

Cointerra Dear Keenan,

We feel sorry to have disappointed you and others. It seems that either the expectations about our commercial offer were overinflated (possibly due to our own communication), or that our value offer is somewhat misunderstood.

We feel that our product offers not only a competitive price per Gh, but also has additional value because of
- low shipping cost due to compact size
- high energy efficiency leading to longer shelf life
- complete package: no additional costs, plug & play
- possibility to trade your spot in the order queue (under development)

That being said, any commercial offer made to the public will excite some and put off others. That is the way the market works, and we accept that.

Best wishes,

CoinTerra support

not when everyone thinks they are jackasses and dont buy the product they are selling. use your head.

Standard businesses risk THEIR OWN MONEY in order to make a profit - ASIC vendors are not "standard businesses", as they take no risk for themselves as all the operation is financed by customer's money.

I'd say ASIC vendors are a "too good to be true" businesses. The point is that this madness will end soonish, mining will get "pro" and amateurs will be just cut out of the business, mining will be profitable only for those being able to design their own chips, cover NRE costs and then produce tons of chips at a small cost, "consumers" will just be totally cut out of the equation. Meanwhile, some see the huge business opportunity in getting advanced money by greedy customers, and they are just trying to exploit the short time window in which these pre-order shenanigans still work.

With such large chip-dies for these miners, I fail to see how much cheaper the products can be made. The yields on cutting edge process geometries are always lower than established ones, so to be making the hashing equivalent of an Intel Xeon only exacerbates matters further. How much for the Terraminer I, $6000? Seems like an odd business decision for a company whose perceivable capital right now is their employment of experienced industry insiders. I fail to see how experienced insiders would deem to walk the riskiest route in what should be seen as a venture that already carries considerable risk; witness the various levels of success that the current mining manufacturers have had, none have had unmitigated success except ASICminer.

You're free to run "Charity ASICs" as your own business, should you care to...

The ASIC vendors are standard businesses.  They are in it to make money.  They are, so far, proving to be exceptionally good at it.

thats one fucking expensive powersupply.

no thanks. NEXT.

Yeah !

I take one or two or ten for sure !

... but I pay when the device(s) is(are) at my door ok ?
Plus I need 1 year warranty AND a 30-day reimbursement warranty in the case the device doesn't meet requirements.

Do we have a deal ? Let me know...

Regards

Yes I had mobilized all my funds in anticipation of this announcement. Now I have to demobilize, all in all a pain in the ass.

For future announcements about upcoming announcements please don't mislead people, as;
Cheaper than competition != same price as BFL.
Smaller units to promote widespread, decentralized network != 15k

funniest thing is they do not take bitcoin, lol

Pre-orders? Risking customers money, a nice business model indeed.

If this preorder thing does not stop soon enough the mining scene will suffer a lot. Why nobody works on small USB devices, very cheaply priced and that could sell hundred of k's of units? That would be something huge for BTC, and really help with decentralization. Asking for $15k preorders is an insult.

another pre-order story .. no thanks

omfg, why you are generating every single day another stupid cointerra thread? NO ONE CARES, especially when it cost 15k $



and please note:

Whoa get your Baby Jet while you still can lol

This was a huge failure on your part.  You had the entire community ready to purchase and you got greedy.

December/January delivery of 2Th should have been ~8k usd.  Nice try, I'll take my mining investment elsewhere.

Hi CoinTerra,

Fuck You are the only words that come to peoples minds with your devices

+1 would make for an interesting season in the mining world.

Ya, I'm looking for my checkbook right now.

Can't wait to see the low-end price structure.

Sounds like they are getting people ready so when the "other" products come out at "lower prices" we won't be shocked - it's like saying $8k isn't bad, this other thing they are selling is $16k...  even though 8k is seriously overpriced...  I don't know for sure - just my .02$...

That was worth a chuckle.  The funny thing is enough miners did that all the sellers would have no choice but to agree.

Most of these people are pissed, and running for the door looking for an alternative.

Well, that is my interpretation of the response to this anyways.

I respect your opinion of course.

I am really excited about this new product and the pre-order. Since this is an official threat, I would like to pre-order the 2TH unit here!

I am therefore pre-paying $15,750 here, funds to be released on a prompt delivery, thanks!

This is meant to be their halo product, it gets people in the door so to speak, and even if they can't buy the top level model, they might stick around and seriously consider the lower priced products. What they should do is release info about their lower priced products in the next few days in order to capitalize on this current bout of attention they're receiving.

You chose to release the pricing details on the $16,000 unit for a reason.

Please don't disgrace the board by trying to convince us that most potential customers wanted to see pricing details on the highest price item first.  Most potential customers do not have this kind of money.  It would have made sense to unveil details on a product that most people can afford, and then show details on the expensive unit later on...

You are obviously targeting high-end customers first.  You're lower-end customers are now yelling "scam" and running the other direction, and rightfully so.  Whether you have any interest in them or not, you are appearing not to.

Pretend you own a car lot.  And your very first commercial is "Hey, come on in and buy a Tesla Roadster for $109,000"

You think that the guy wanting a Honda Accord is going to stick around?  No....because you appear not to care about him...you appear to care more about luxury items.  You have given the best and most prompt attention to cater to the high-end.

Oh, I completely get it.  Let's rock the bitcoin community and tell them that we have a 2 TH miner.  Let's target big money and get those preorders in, then we'll throw some scraps to small miners maybe later on.

You're not benefiting anybody but yourselves.

We actually have a full product line of various hashing rates and price points, in order to serve "something for everyone", that will be released later this month. We did an early unveiling of this highend product due to immense interest we have received.

I am sorry you wish that we fail, miserably. We are working extremely diligently to support this community and develop the most advanced ASIC yet.

  you got have 500Gh/s miner for sell low end one and 2Th/s miner is going to be hard to sell for high price.

$15,750!?  To me, that says "Hi.  I'm Cointerra.  I'm only interested in talking to you if you have a TON of money laying around for an asic."

Anybody with any real interest in the bitcoin community would be willing to serve all customers, not just wealthy ones.

This is a very unfortunate mistake you are making.  It obviously only benefits very few with deep pockets, it is an absolute disgrace to the bitcoin community as a whole.  It has no value whatsoever to low-end consumers (miners) - the very people that brought bitcoin into existence.  What a horrible business model, nothing more than a quick exploit for big profits.

If you are interested, have a look at a company who serves the entire community:  AsicMiner (friedcat) has everything from low-end USB sticks to blades.  Something for everyone.  (You'll figure out after you fail that "something for everyone" was something you've overlooked while you were blinded by huge hash rates selling for tons of money)

Will it make you happy knowing that so many out there would love to own a product like this, but that you've completely priced most of them out?  You deserve to fail, miserably.

We are currently working with both Paypal(Credit Cards) and Bitpay(Bitcoin). This early unveiling of our 2TH/s TerraMiner IV was due to the incredible amount of requests we have received on our site. We will be publishing our full delivery and refund policy when we have our full product line release later this month.

Thank you for your patience.

Why the flipping fuck does every vendor pre-announcement/annoucement need its own thread off of it's core thread???

 I haven't seen a bullshit fluff-laden PR piece like that since, well, the Butterfly Labs Monarch announcement.
 
 I'm calling shenanigans.

1. Way to expensive
2. What Guarantee of Delivery do they have
3.Do they Accept Paypal and Credit Cards
4. What Refund Policy Protection do they have
5. Be Careful these are Pre- Orders.

People need to stop with the simplistic  'price per Gh/s' -  it's price per *December* Gh/s  etc   ... that needs to be *much* lower than 'Sept/Oct/Nov price per Gh/s' to be attractive - and though it's no fault of cointerra (yet) - due to the number of people burned by late deliveries - it needs a margin to look attractive even with a month or so of delivery slippage.

The price includes the power supply, and it also includes a powerful controller integrated in the solution to manage the ASICs. Note that the power consumption is a fraction of other devices out there per Gh/s.

Way... Way... WAYYYY over priced IMO.   

By the time the KnC orders get fulfilled (Sept/Oct/Nov), difficulty is going through the roof, just look at the graphs to see for yourself.. even IF.. and big IF cointerra can deliver on time, IMO it's not worth it, the introduction of more and more TH make's diminishing returns and this is just overpriced right now.

It's currently 5x the power of a Jupiter at 2x the cost ~ which sounds good, but the calculations speak for themselves : http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/294c1f0fab

Bank transfer only, nty. Scam unless proven otherwise.

Due to high interest and demand, we have decided to announce the specs and price of our first product: TerraMiner IV, before the official launch of our full product line.

TerraMiner IV is the most powerful, high-performance Bitcoin mining rig available for pre-order and packs a hashrate of greater than 2 TH/s.

Designed by the world’s leading experts in ASICs, mathematics and algorithm design, it features Cointerra’s in-house designed ASIC – the GoldStrike1.

TerraMiner IV delivers unprecedented performance while maintaining an exceptionally efficient wattage rating (of significantly less than a watt per Gh/s). It is optimized and designed for use by Bitcoin mining professionals who demand the very best cost/performance ratio for their systems.

TerraMiner IV will ship in December this year and retails for $15,750.
 
For more information and to place an order, go to order.cointerra.com.

Looking forward to serving you,

The CoinTerra Team

- -

We apologize for the slight delay in the announcement here on the forum. We wanted to be sure that all the people who actively signed up for email updates on our website received this message first.