Topic: Collecting Community input needed>> Definitions used in our unique hobby (Read 991 times)

Krog,

This is a great thread and a good project.

Looks like the lion share of terms are indentified at this point. However, I would add 'custom' to the this. A couple of creators (and coincidentally you can see an example of this in the picture above of the Denarium. Custom value is obvious to us as synonymous with buyer funded, however, it is worth noting it for the sake of orienting new people in the hobby. I find that the un-initiated are confused by what Custom Value means.

Steeley

I did a little bit of refining (although ranges of visual conditions are still lacking) which brings the overall grading to way more realistic results... you'll see at the example coin ;-)
Any suggestions, correction of spelling errors, definitions I might still get totally wrong are very welcome!



So there occure several changes to the example coin: C-BTC-CF-2-4+-3

"2" because I used 07/2015 as starting point (like Denarium states on their homepage to have started funding their coins), close to 7 years in business with no databreaches or open issues known to me means 3 steps up the trust-ladder. As much as I like the idea of open look-up databases... it makes the addresses prone to dust-transactions (which isn't affecting the rating for now).

"4+" is self-explaing.

"3" because of lack of meaningful divisions => the coin is as good as it can be (in relative terms a "0") although I'm fully aware that in other series other standards apply... like "Polished Plate - PP" an loads of other numismatic terms.

edit: even the smallest mistake is important here and needs to be corrected ;-)

  Sure I do..but your gonna have to go thru me first...and believe me son...you don't wanna have to go thru a guy like me.

  Nothing will ever take away my precious  
  

Just the simple fact I have to send my coins to be graded thru a postal system or courier for that matter and there is a chance damage or loss can happen, makes me shudder!

Never gonna happen with my coins. Locked away they are and locked away they shall stay. Or buried  

You're not wrong. PCGS and NGC are absolutely the pinnacle of coin graders..but they won't touch our coins..yet (I'm working on them). ICG and ANACS are honestly more of a "hold over" for me. Neither are up there w/NGC or PCGS but at least they're grading our coins. It's nice to have your coin graded, though I like it more so just as a great capsule to protect my coins with a side benefit of grading that is "mostly accurate". If NGC or PCGS did ever start grading, I'd crack my coins out of the other graders and get them re-graded.

For me frankly, coming from the world for collectibles of Gold and Silver coins. PCGS and NGC are the benchmark, certain people do like ANACS due to their historical presence, but ICG is used by some small time dealers who like to scam collectors by showing higher grade. To me ICG is just there to make money from the items that PCGS and NGC don't accept or get rejected or grade extremely poor. I would rather have my coins in original packaging than sending to ICG.

Coming on this forum lot of people convinced me that ICG was infact great but one of the coins I recently received which was MS69 from ICG, looking at it closer at the coin store with some high tech devices, it couldn't be more than 60 or 62 that too if PCGS or NGC are even accepting these coins.


Another concern I have specially with loaded coins that gets graded, specially a company like ICG, I don't think they have the expertise like some of our forum members(krogothmanhattan, MJ, and few more) in checking the holograms seals and all. If I peel off the hologram unload the coin, stick back the hologram, do you think ICG will catch it everytime? I don't think so. This is one of the reason they are saying on their slabs that they don't guarantee or check for the loaded value.

I am sorry my fellow collectors, it might be bitter truth about ICG, but it's true, you can cross check that at any of your local coin dealers.

This just came up in a different forum about regular silver coins.

Short version:
Do we need a "graded reliable" and "graded unreliable"

Long version:
Do we need / should we have a discussion out here in public, probably on a separate thread about the "quality" or "accuracy" of coin grading houses in regard to cryptos?
If we know "A" will grade something that has been driven over by a UPS truck with a MS65 but "B" will kick it back to you with a comment of *hell no* scribbled on the receipt should this information be more accessible?

As krogothmanhattan said about checking the load of a coin. Caveat Emptor!  BUT, if without digging through 100s of posts it becomes almost impossible. Even with a bit of digging I still don't know who graded the killyou coin.

Dave's logic behind making this more public --> Anything we can do to help remove scammers is good. Anything we can do to make scammers lives more difficult is good. If a new person does not know and does not look to find out that's on them.  If they don't know and we do but don't tell them and make it difficult to find out, that's on us.

Counter argument --> We are not your mom. It's not our job. 

Sorry for the rambling, but someone on the silver forum just did a test with PCGS grading and it ended...poorly...lets leave it at that.

-Dave

This just came up in a different forum about regular silver coins.

Short version:
Do we need a "graded reliable" and "graded unreliable"

Long version:
Do we need / should we have a discussion out here in public, probably on a separate thread about the "quality" or "accuracy" of coin grading houses in regard to cryptos?
If we know "A" will grade something that has been driven over by a UPS truck with a MS65 but "B" will kick it back to you with a comment of *hell no* scribbled on the receipt should this information be more accessible?

As krogothmanhattan said about checking the load of a coin. Caveat Emptor!  BUT, if without digging through 100s of posts it becomes almost impossible. Even with a bit of digging I still don't know who graded the killyou coin.

Dave's logic behind making this more public --> Anything we can do to help remove scammers is good. Anything we can do to make scammers lives more difficult is good. If a new person does not know and does not look to find out that's on them.  If they don't know and we do but don't tell them and make it difficult to find out, that's on us.

Counter argument --> We are not your mom. It's not our job.  

Sorry for the rambling, but someone on the silver forum just did a test with PCGS grading and it ended...poorly...lets leave it at that.

-Dave

  b) Do not trust the grading that much after I saw them grade a killyou, satori chips and fake coins.

More ramblings.
What is a limited edition? / Low production?
100? 1000? 10000? 1000000?
There are 7 billion+ people in the world. If I make 10K or 100k or 10 million of something that everyone wants it's all a limited edition.
Crypto collectables is a much smaller pool, but once again as a small sampling of the group we might want to start coming up with our own standard of what is limited. 50? 100?

Might be worth a discussion.

-Dave

I like the idea very much..but what if you find people whom do not wish it to be known they were the sellers of such coin?

Another thought, and I have to have to think it but there is at times significant dollar value attached to some of these things. Should there be a standard description for original owner / re-sale coins. And where they have been.

I have a 1 oz Silver Gold-plated 1 BTC Lealana Bitcoin. It's mine, I bought it straight from smoothie I sent funding to the address that smoothie sent me. If I sell it to you and there is an issue with the funding there is a short list of where it happened. With security holos not being perfect and with a real fiat value being attached to BTC there is a real risk of people being scummy. Think about it BTC goes back to over $15k usd. I decide to be evil, I can probably replicate the hologram for under $2500 for a perfect copy. I pull the private key and put it back.

I sell it for BTC1.25 here. And wait 90 days. I then pull the BTC / BCH / every other fork. There is a good chain of custody smoothie --> me --> you. You might not win in court but you would have a good case against me. That is IF you actually notice. How often do you check the loads on your coins?

Take the auction I am bidding on now. I don't know if Lesbian Cow the original owner. If not how many hands did this coin pass through? It's been graded, if some really dishonest person was working at any of the grading houses they might have ROLLS of copies of all the holograms of the popular manufacturers and have a notebook filled with private keys. Next time BTC passes $20k they are living in a tropical paradise in a country with no extradition.

I hate having to think about this but every I buy I funded coin this goes through my brain.

So back to the original thought of this post. Do we need a term for chain of custody of the coins that are / can be loaded?
 
-Dave

I have also heard this called "virgin bitcoin"