Colored coins VS Mastercoins - Which one is better? - page 4.

Meni Rosenfeld

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Quote from: gabridome on October 28, 2013, 02:28:36 AM

Does these updates change the perspective of both Coloured and Master coins?
http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-core-dev-update-5-transaction-fees-embedded-data/

It seems that the developers will leave a space of 80 bytes to store for example the hash of a title of property and some extra info in a future proof space on the blockchain for what I understand.

Both coloured coins and master coin could take advantage of this and politely store their information where they have put a space for them.

Are they going to do it in your opinion?

Did I miss something?

Could someone ELI5 on the meanings of these changes?

This is useful for tag-based coloring (as opposed to order-based coloring), however without a network rule enforcing the color tags the usefulness is limited.

Note that colored coins' use of the blockchain is already much less hostile than Mastercoin's current implementation.

gabridome

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Does these updates change the perspective of both Coloured and Master coins?
http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-core-dev-update-5-transaction-fees-embedded-data/

It seems that the developers will leave a space of 80 bytes to store for example the hash of a title of property and some extra info in a future proof space on the blockchain for what I understand.

Both coloured coins and master coin could take advantage of this and politely store their information where they have put a space for them.

Are they going to do it in your opinion?

Did I miss something?

Could someone ELI5 on the meanings of these changes?

TKeenan

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Quote from: TraderTimm on October 27, 2013, 03:35:53 PM

Oh right, lots and lots of money - keep on going you blinded idiots.

The real power behind Mastercoin is the Naysayers who can't figure it out. This is what drives the price so high. Nobody in Mastercoin is looking for 'get rich quick' - none of the top holders are selling despite 10X returns. Clear sign that their true interests are in the long term.

Did you miss the bus?

dunchy

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Quote

They are going to drop the stability mechanism like a box of hot rocks. I am sure of this.

I doubt it. Who would want to accept MC and its ruthlessly spiked initial wealth distribution if it wasn't for some revolutionary new feature? And CC is working just fine for decentralize exchange without introducing some new cryptocoin barons. I think stability mechanism is either a point of MC's wide acceptance or its miserable failure. Why? Because, decentralized lending is the next big thing. Historically big. I think many people are sensing that, but still nobody has a clue how to do it. Especially how to make it work if a loan is indexed in deflationary currency. This mechanism is one way to do it. If it works.

I admit I haven't understood the explanation given in the article, so if somebody is kind enough to try to explain that once more, I'll be grateful.

TraderTimm

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Mastercoin is a fail sandwich that will burn a lot of people, including the starry-eyed developers. I've tried to warn them about it, but they just push it aside, because remember - no plan can fail, what kind of crazytalk is that!

Also, they're too busy getting caught up in the "how much it will be worth $$$$" game to even consider any rational objections. So please, implement your exchanges on your 'fail-o-col", and see how fast the Feds get on your case. You won't even be operating in any kind of anonymous and decentralized sense (their parasitic use of the Bitcoin network hashpower excluded of course), so what do you think you will achieve?

Oh right, lots and lots of money - keep on going you blinded idiots.

TKeenan

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Quote from: Meni Rosenfeld on October 27, 2013, 06:55:36 AM

Quote from: culexevilman on October 27, 2013, 06:36:55 AM

Sorry for my ignorance, but whats colored coins?

The thing that is described at https://bitcoil.co.il/BitcoinX.pdf and http://coloredcoins.org/.

Don't waste any time reading that - colored coins is a dead concept now. Master is much bigger already, has much higher ceiling, has money in hand, does everything CC does, but better.

Quote from: Meni Rosenfeld on October 27, 2013, 06:55:36 AM

Economically, I don't think this would work in Mastercoin either.

Even if it did work, why would anyone ever want to disturb free markets? That is always a bad idea to restrain free trade in ANY fashion. 'stability' seems good - it's not. Besides, no matter how clever the algorithm - the efficiency of traders will take into account the movements and they will profit from all imbalances. It is a perfect way to take randomness out of market movements and leave open the possibility of trading on a program which counters the movement.

I have started working on a way to get this thing into oscillations. Once I can get it to oscillate, I'll magnify my profits. Bet me.

They are going to drop the stability mechanism like a box of hot rocks. I am sure of this.

bitcool

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Live and enjoy experiments

Quote from: Meni Rosenfeld on October 27, 2013, 11:55:36 AM

Economically, I don't think this would work in Mastercoin either.

It won't. It's a overly simplified model, like trying to drive a Google car only by controlling its speed.

Meni Rosenfeld

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Quote from: culexevilman on October 27, 2013, 06:36:55 AM

Sorry for my ignorance, but whats colored coins?

The thing that is described at https://bitcoil.co.il/BitcoinX.pdf and http://coloredcoins.org/.

Quote from: dunchy on October 27, 2013, 06:29:42 AM

Is this feature possible with colored coins? If yes, please would you elaborate on mechanism because I wasn't able to find anything about it. Thanks.

Technically, there is no feature in colored coins to enable this directly, but it could be done in an ad-hoc way. Economically, I don't think this would work in Mastercoin either.

culexevilman

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Bitcoin is too valuable to be used as a currency

Sorry for my ignorance, but whats colored coins?

dunchy

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I'm trying to find my way somehow through this noise storm and compare the two...

In JR's paper "MasterCoin Complete Specification" (aka "2nd bitcoin paper"), section "Escrow-Backed User Currencies", there is a picture about stability concept. It utilizes escrow fund to keep the value of a particular backed currency on desirable level, by manipulating the supply of it using MC if I'm right.

Is this feature possible with colored coins? If yes, please would you elaborate on mechanism because I wasn't able to find anything about it. Thanks.

TraderTimm

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Quote from: HammerFist on October 19, 2013, 02:50:02 AM

Quote from: dacoinminster on October 18, 2013, 01:38:09 PM

Wow. I sure hope it won't be jail!

For it to be jail, you'll have to do something illegal. I guess that leaves richest man in the world. I've got to say, I do believe that Mastercoin does bring more function to society than Microsoft - and today that is where the richest man in the world is from. So perhaps JR will be donating billions to kids in Africa soon. Hmmm - cool.

I think we'll see precisely why Satoshi was anonymous.

Its a shame that he's dragging his family into it as well, it would be different if it was just his own life at risk.

bitcool

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Live and enjoy experiments

Quote from: Peter Todd on October 20, 2013, 05:13:55 PM

Quote from: BitcoinEXpress on October 20, 2013, 10:34:36 AM

The only thing Coloredcoin or Mastercoin have in common is that they both will die as failed experiments.

If colored coins don't pan out they won't take ~5,000BTC of investor money down with them; on a technical level both are decent ideas where a good implementation could be useful.

Having a single Exodus address without Returning addresses is the main reason kept me from investing meanintruly amount of money in this, it doesn't need to be that way.

HammerFist

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Quote from: ?? on ??

1exodus address private key gets lost, now what?

JR gave me a copy. No problem.

HammerFist

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Quote from: BitcoinEXpress on October 20, 2013, 10:34:36 AM

The only thing Coloredcoin or Mastercoin have in common is that they both will die as failed experiments.

Very same thing was said about bitcoin - many, many times. Good to be in good company.

Quote from: Peter Todd on October 20, 2013, 05:13:55 PM

If colored coins don't pan out they won't take ~5,000BTC of investor money down with them; on a technical level both are decent ideas where a good implementation could be useful.

Investors at this level love high-risk, high-reward. Nobody is crying if this goes bust. I'd do it again 20 times - failing the first 19 just to hit on the final deal. MSC has some very cool conceptual roots. Let's see if they can get it into a practical form. I sure can't find any reason which excludes that possibility today.

If someone announces MSC2 now, I am in. No regrets.

alp

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: alp on October 20, 2013, 04:32:28 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: dillpicklechips on October 20, 2013, 11:05:06 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: dillpicklechips on October 20, 2013, 10:44:11 AM

Quote from: Inkvor on October 20, 2013, 10:38:35 AM

mastercoin at least it got a price

So does CC. It's the smallest 0-fee bitcoin transaction that can be sent through the bitcoin network.

He clearly meant that the format is conducive to speculation, direct value, etc. Whether that's a +, the future will decide. This does in a sense give it momentum, and at the least grabs attention.

Which is why I'm wondering if MC is all speculation for the price. CC biggest advantage is that it will be cheap for everyone to use forever. For MC to be valuable it has to do something CC can't.

I had typed out a good two paragraphs of my thoughts on this and accidentally hit the back button, so decided to just summarize. From my understanding CC (potentially) accomplishes a small list of important features but is ultimately limited in what it can achieve. Mastercoin can (potentially) solve these problems also, and beyond, having broad implications in ways that we don't even know yet because of the way it is implemented. And consider Bitcoin. Although it's purpose was not to function as a speculative device, that's what nurtured it into legitimization (if you consider BTC legitimate at this point). There's no lack of talent looking to be involved in the bitcoin world. Provided the technical hurdles can be overcome, I think the fact that it can be directly monetized and the approx 3/4 of a million dollars of funding puts Mastercoin in the lead. The amount the project has accomplished in one month is quite impressive.

Mastercoin being more ambitious is actually a good reason to be very careful of it. It has to get nearly everything right it tries to do, or falls apart. It's much easier to build small components are correct than a complete functioning system that tries to do everything. Colored coins tries to solve one problem, and solve it very well. MC tries to solve a ton of different problems all using the same solution. While Mastercoin has the edge of getting a lot of people to try to get rich quick dumping tons of Bitcoins into it, that doesn't make it better. It just means that they will get to the point of failure faster.

You make so many assumptions in this response that I'm not even going to bother.

No mastercoin proponent can bother, because they have no answers.

Financisto

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BTC⇆⚡⇄BTC

Loozik

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Born to chew bubble gum and kick ass

Out of curiosity: does any of the two projects offer (partial) answers to this idea? https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/a-call-for-creating-a-new-type-of-crypto-asset-313151

Peter Todd

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Quote from: BitcoinEXpress on October 20, 2013, 10:34:36 AM

The only thing Coloredcoin or Mastercoin have in common is that they both will die as failed experiments.

If colored coins don't pan out they won't take ~5,000BTC of investor money down with them; on a technical level both are decent ideas where a good implementation could be useful.

alp

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: dillpicklechips on October 20, 2013, 11:05:06 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: dillpicklechips on October 20, 2013, 10:44:11 AM

Quote from: Inkvor on October 20, 2013, 10:38:35 AM

mastercoin at least it got a price

So does CC. It's the smallest 0-fee bitcoin transaction that can be sent through the bitcoin network.

He clearly meant that the format is conducive to speculation, direct value, etc. Whether that's a +, the future will decide. This does in a sense give it momentum, and at the least grabs attention.

Which is why I'm wondering if MC is all speculation for the price. CC biggest advantage is that it will be cheap for everyone to use forever. For MC to be valuable it has to do something CC can't.

I had typed out a good two paragraphs of my thoughts on this and accidentally hit the back button, so decided to just summarize. From my understanding CC (potentially) accomplishes a small list of important features but is ultimately limited in what it can achieve. Mastercoin can (potentially) solve these problems also, and beyond, having broad implications in ways that we don't even know yet because of the way it is implemented. And consider Bitcoin. Although it's purpose was not to function as a speculative device, that's what nurtured it into legitimization (if you consider BTC legitimate at this point). There's no lack of talent looking to be involved in the bitcoin world. Provided the technical hurdles can be overcome, I think the fact that it can be directly monetized and the approx 3/4 of a million dollars of funding puts Mastercoin in the lead. The amount the project has accomplished in one month is quite impressive.

Mastercoin being more ambitious is actually a good reason to be very careful of it. It has to get nearly everything right it tries to do, or falls apart. It's much easier to build small components are correct than a complete functioning system that tries to do everything. Colored coins tries to solve one problem, and solve it very well. MC tries to solve a ton of different problems all using the same solution. While Mastercoin has the edge of getting a lot of people to try to get rich quick dumping tons of Bitcoins into it, that doesn't make it better. It just means that they will get to the point of failure faster.

alp

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Quote from: dillpicklechips on October 20, 2013, 01:26:46 PM

Thanks for all the replies. I've looked into it more.

I see another potential problem for mastercoin: it is easily duplicated with little work. Unlike alt coins a new mastercoin clone doesn't need to build up an army of miners. This makes a clone have the same security as the original. All the security comes for free from bitcoin. Someone could come along and clone the project, rename it, and have all the same features with the added benefit of not having to purchase mastercoins. Is that scenario likely?

It's unlikely mainly because Mastercoin will prove itself to be an idea that isn't worth copying. If I am somehow wrong on that, the clones are not far behind.

Topic: Colored coins VS Mastercoins - Which one is better? - page 4. (Read 18943 times)