Topic: Comparison of gambling and betting on resistance to outcome manipulation - page 2. (Read 414 times)
January 16, 2025, 04:20:27 PM
I'm not sure about that to be honest, because when there is an upset, surprising statistics during a sport event for example an outsider, it's more likely that something shaddy as happened behind the curtains. But when surprising statistics happen at gambling games, we can't easily know if it's because of bad luck, for a long losing streak for example, or because of game is rigged.
January 16, 2025, 04:16:40 PM
Despite that, we have so many laws that are yet to be made that will make sports games fairer and less manipulated, is still a clear fact that sports is one of the most corrupt and manipulated games among others, this is because sports games have vulnerable chances of interference not just from one actor but multiple interferences which makes the games far from being perfect, that is the reason some of the games within sport games like football and others have organizers that set rules to at least checkmates the excesses of each actor in the game.
You're right more especially in football game you know sometime before an event will even start they know what will be the outcome of the event I mean scores, is already been fixed by the organizers this is why sometimes let's say they have already fixed the outcome of a particular event even before the kick off time. let's say the event just started you know when they discover that the strength of both teams are not equal maybe the strength of team A is bigger than the strength of team B mean while they have fixed the game to end with a score of draw at this point what they do is that, they will be looking for any slightest mistake from the stronger team so as to book them for a red card just to balance the strength they will just look for a way to manipulate it just to make sure that it works according to their prediction. I think they always work with the referees.
January 16, 2025, 03:52:48 PM
As some people say there is no place for politics in sport, but we all realize that there is politics and corruption and deliberate abuse in sport. It is difficult to answer the question of whether gambling or betting on events (not just sports) is more vulnerable, as we cannot reliably know what happens to the gambling payout distribution algorithm and whether it can be influenced. Personally, I admit that it could be vulnerable too.
There are already arguments online pointing at how corrupt the sport especially football and boxing, can be, but there is no solid proof to back those claims up. From now on, it is obvious that some match results appear to be manipulated. I can also agree with others that there is some level of manipulation in sport where the upper hands can easily manipulate the outcome of a game up to a certain level, which they could either influence it through the officials or those who will be in action that day to make the game work.
January 16, 2025, 03:35:28 PM
If we talk about the possibility of external influence on events in order to manipulate the result (meaning, for example, interference in the gambling process, interference in a sports competition, for example, through match-fixing), which is more vulnerable in this regard: gambling or betting on events (not only on sports)?
Gradually, I came to the conclusion that sports betting is more vulnerable to manipulation of the results of events and the subsequent use of insider information. Betting on events in general strongly depends on the scale of an event. The larger the event, the more difficult it is to influence its outcome to your advantage (a recent example of such a large-scale bet is a bet on the outcome of the US presidential election).
In turn, gambling is the least susceptible to manipulation of the results, since the more random the process, the less manageable it is. In other words, the high proportion of random outcomes in gambling protects them from manipulation of the results to a greater extent than the high predictability of sports betting protects them from contractual outcomes of competitions. This leads to the paradoxical conclusion that the less influence luck or bad luck has on the outcome of an event, the more likely it is that you will simply be deceived. Do you agree or disagree with such ideas regarding gambling and betting?
Gradually, I came to the conclusion that sports betting is more vulnerable to manipulation of the results of events and the subsequent use of insider information. Betting on events in general strongly depends on the scale of an event. The larger the event, the more difficult it is to influence its outcome to your advantage (a recent example of such a large-scale bet is a bet on the outcome of the US presidential election).
In turn, gambling is the least susceptible to manipulation of the results, since the more random the process, the less manageable it is. In other words, the high proportion of random outcomes in gambling protects them from manipulation of the results to a greater extent than the high predictability of sports betting protects them from contractual outcomes of competitions. This leads to the paradoxical conclusion that the less influence luck or bad luck has on the outcome of an event, the more likely it is that you will simply be deceived. Do you agree or disagree with such ideas regarding gambling and betting?
Isn't sports betting another type of gambling? Are you saying those that depend on RNG are least susceptible to manipulation? I do not think so since this kind of gambling are computer generated, or affected by the code embedded to it, I believe they are both co-equal in terms of possibly being manipulated.
Just think, the random based results can be manipulated in just a bunch of code that will affect the outcome of the game, same way sports betting result can be manipulated by insiders of the sports where the game can be rigged to end in what they desired result of the end game.
Every gambling games can have ways to be manipulated so I believe there is nothing like being some games to be more susceptible to manipulation since manipulation is dependent on the host of the game.
January 16, 2025, 03:29:08 PM
I believe most people here who are of age 35 or more remember very well the 2002 World Cup in Korea S. and Japan where the referee one from Chili or Ecuador don't remember now clearly favored the Korean team to pass through the quarter final or 1/16 whichever the phase was. The referee was sentenced by FIFA with eternal ban as he clearly accepted that he got a huge pay in order to influence that event which I still remember even 20 years or more later. Next we have had scandal of football in Italy Serie A in 2006 in the so called "Calciopoli" where the leading teams of Serie A was influencing the outcome of many games through the referees, one sentence that I remember from the spying by the government there was the president of a big team that said in a phone conversation to one referee, "so how did you like the Rolex I sent you as a gift" and that was the culmination of match fixing for me.
January 16, 2025, 03:15:57 PM
Well, op you could be right in your hypothesis about sports betting been susceptible to high frequency of influence and
manipulation of outcomes mainly with the use of techs like the VAR in deciding certain situations in a game it even becomes more easier for those behind those VARS to make see whatever they choose to make viewers to see.
manipulation of outcomes mainly with the use of techs like the VAR in deciding certain situations in a game it even becomes more easier for those behind those VARS to make see whatever they choose to make viewers to see.
I agree. This is why I don't bet on small leagues (if available) because I don't have any source that will tell me what the outcome of the game will be.
Sports games manipulation was earlier confined to be a thing that is known with small and unpopular leagues but recently we are now having those topples of manipulations and influence in certain games even in major leagues in Europe and this like I had said above is done through the use of VAR or the central referee through a controversial design of event on the field of play. And these are professionally done in ways we can't easily discern. 
January 16, 2025, 08:35:37 AM
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Theirs something I want to understand concerning gambling, the thing I understand of gambling is that, neither sporty bet or not in gambling what will happen will surely happen...I to ask this question, is a sporty bet the largest firm in the gambling, because theirs nothing we will discuss or analysis concerning gambling that we will not make mentioned of sporty bet, whereas we have other firms that is involve in gambling. What “sporty bet” you are referring to? It seems you are not familiar on sports betting with this kind of question.
I will assume sports betting on your statement, it’s not a firm rather just a form of gambling that involves sports which most casino offer nowadays. The OP title is just confusing since he categorized casino games as gambling gambling while betting is not gambling which in reality both gambling.
Both sports betting and casino games are same being offered by casino at the same time.
January 16, 2025, 08:31:26 AM
Despite that, we have so many laws that are yet to be made that will make sports games fairer and less manipulated, is still a clear fact that sports is one of the most corrupt and manipulated games among others, this is because sports games have vulnerable chances of interference not just from one actor but multiple interferences which makes the games far from being perfect, that is the reason some of the games within sport games like football and others have organizers that set rules to at least checkmates the excesses of each actor in the game.
Theirs something I want to understand concerning gambling, the thing I understand of gambling is that, neither sporty bet or not in gambling what will happen will surely happen...I to ask this question, is a sporty bet the largest firm in the gambling, because theirs nothing we will discuss or analysis concerning gambling that we will not make mentioned of sporty bet, whereas we have other firms that is involve in gambling. But people doesn't make mention of them, in gambling, I want people ro understand that gambling is a game of understanding and if you don't understand it very well you will you say the particular gambling site is not fair with you.thats the ethics I find in the gambling. 
January 16, 2025, 08:22:15 AM
Though we can't actually tell what is happening behind the scene. These sports can be manipulated.. players can be paid off, officials csn be bribed to take sides. Even though we don't see these things, sometimes there are in play. Sport betting is more vulnerable to manipulation compared to gambling. We can easily predict these games just by looking at past events and players strengths. The high level of randomness in gambling serves as a natural protection against external manipulation.. though the house mostly have the edges to win compared to the players.
January 16, 2025, 07:30:07 AM
If we talk about the possibility of external influence on events in order to manipulate the result (meaning, for example, interference in the gambling process, interference in a sports competition, for example, through match-fixing), which is more vulnerable in this regard: gambling or betting on events (not only on sports)?
obviously betting on events is the most vulnerable to manipulation since it is the only one that is led by people maybe not the betting platform exactly but matches, sports teams, and athletes are all susceptible to manipulation and fraud and that can affect someone's bet as opposed to gambling whereas it is mostly machines that a gambler is working with it is a lot harder to manipulate and fool something that works under logic and codes
January 16, 2025, 07:08:26 AM
As some people say there is no place for politics in sport, but we all realize that there is politics and corruption and deliberate abuse in sport. It is difficult to answer the question of whether gambling or betting on events (not just sports) is more vulnerable, as we cannot reliably know what happens to the gambling payout distribution algorithm and whether it can be influenced. Personally, I admit that it could be vulnerable too.
January 16, 2025, 06:31:36 AM
Gradually, I came to the conclusion that sports betting is more vulnerable to manipulation of the results of events and the subsequent use of insider information. Betting on events in general strongly depends on the scale of an event. The larger the event, the more difficult it is to influence its outcome to your advantage (a recent example of such a large-scale bet is a bet on the outcome of the US presidential election).
Gambling games(3rd party games) usually has a close source which means a shady game providers can easily manipulate the outcome without anyone notice the scam while on sports betting everyone is watching the same game which is very hard to manipulate the result even match fixing.
Match fixing is only possible on lower league while it’s hard to do on popular league since there’s a committee monitoring the game.
Assuming we are just comparing what’s the easiest to manipulate I think casino games is much as easier than sports betting due to the close source nature of 3rd party games.
January 16, 2025, 06:27:20 AM
This leads to the paradoxical conclusion that the less influence luck or bad luck has on the outcome of an event, the more likely it is that you will simply be deceived. Do you agree or disagree with such ideas regarding gambling and betting?
But you can't say that the less influence of "luck or bad luck" may indicate potential rigging if I understood correctly what you want to say. Maybe we can say that it is easier to set up less popular duels compared to popular ones on which many eyes are focused. As some other members have already said, that's why we choose to bet on the most popular sports and leagues.
Your idea is kind of generalized and a little unclear to me... but if you found some way to increase your chances of winning or dodging bullets in sports betting, then that's great.
Right. Of course, I can't say this definitively on a case-by-case basis. This is just a generalized conclusion that the risk of manipulation in betting is much higher than, for example, in a casino. But I doubt that there are fewer risks in popular sports and high-level competitions. Here I would draw such an analogy: "If you want to hide something, then put it in the most visible place."
Or another analogy. For example, there is no economic sense in counterfeiting cheap cigarettes or alcohol. They fake expensive cigarettes and very expensive alcohol. The majority of the population is unable to distinguish a fake. For one simple reason, they can't compare because they've never consumed a real product.
This analogy should be understood not literally, but in the sense that the more brazen the lie, the more people will believe in it. For example, the higher the level of a sporting event, the more audacious an attempt at manipulation will seem. People will think, "No, this can't be happening, because this is the championship!" The championship is just an example. By the way, the technology of ridiculing "conspiracy theories" is based on the same reaction of "reality rejection"... and after a while it turns out that this was not a "conspiracy theory" but the virus was indeed of artificial origin (this is about Covid).
January 16, 2025, 05:59:43 AM
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Wouldn't it be on events? Like there's a lot more that can be swayed/affected by various pressures (political, social, etc) compared to sports since most of these events are one time, two-time kind of thing and heavily relies as well on sponsors and the like. I'd like to think that sports themselves are highly impenetrable to match-fixing BUT it still does happen sadly. Still I think it happens more often in lower tier tournaments rather than big ones, which speaks volumes to its reputation imo. Though I guess if you were to compare it with REALLY big events, then yeah then it wouldn't be susceptible. I reckon they'd both be at the same level-ish then no?
January 16, 2025, 05:46:32 AM
I agree. This is why I don't bet on small leagues (if available) because I don't have any source that will tell me what the outcome of the game will be. They are prone to manipulation and I bet there's one who is making profits out of those.
Professional sports on the other hand is unlikely to be manipulated and if it is, it sure is too obvious and many people will see it which is why they are trying to avoid it as much as possible. As you said, we cannot influence it, nor other people. It's not like a group of players who are paid in high amounts will just listen to anyone especially if they are stars who are always looking for a win.
Professional sports on the other hand is unlikely to be manipulated and if it is, it sure is too obvious and many people will see it which is why they are trying to avoid it as much as possible. As you said, we cannot influence it, nor other people. It's not like a group of players who are paid in high amounts will just listen to anyone especially if they are stars who are always looking for a win.
You have raised an important question, which I would formulate something like this: "From what level of sports competitions can we be sure that betting will not run the risk of manipulating the results of these competitions?" I'm not sure that even at the level of, for example, Serie A, all matches are guaranteed to be fair. Maybe the World Cup level is closed from manipulation.. As for other sports, I doubt very much that even some fights for world boxing titles are not subject to behind-the-scenes arrangements.
However, I am almost sure that Formula 1 is free from such manipulations. The teams' financial and technological interests clash too much there. And the same big ambitions of the racers are opposed to each other. As for the reasons for this, I have another hypothesis, which is that racing is an inherently rich people's sport, whereas boxing or football allows anyone, including a poor person, to make a career if they have the ability and determination.
January 16, 2025, 05:18:50 AM
This leads to the paradoxical conclusion that the less influence luck or bad luck has on the outcome of an event, the more likely it is that you will simply be deceived. Do you agree or disagree with such ideas regarding gambling and betting?
But you can't say that the less influence of "luck or bad luck" may indicate potential rigging if I understood correctly what you want to say. Maybe we can say that it is easier to set up less popular duels compared to popular ones on which many eyes are focused. As some other members have already said, that's why we choose to bet on the most popular sports and leagues.
Your idea is kind of generalized and a little unclear to me... but if you found some way to increase your chances of winning or dodging bullets in sports betting, then that's great.
January 16, 2025, 05:16:18 AM
Sports betting are physically active games, it is easier to manipulate from this end to the other without getting noticed. Options on betting platforms are getting more crazier with betting if random fan interrupting a game or a certain player getting red card in a match and then doing it himself just to establish the win on his bet. There has been many calls about players changing the outcomes on purpose just so they can make million profit from their bet, while others are caught i am sure there are those who are best at it and yet undiscovered.
Election bets can also be tampered, whereas in casino an insider might have the ability to track signals and deploy when is convenient to stake, but the average number of times outcomes are tampered are those from sports betting.
Election bets can also be tampered, whereas in casino an insider might have the ability to track signals and deploy when is convenient to stake, but the average number of times outcomes are tampered are those from sports betting.
January 16, 2025, 05:08:31 AM
Gambling itself can be manipulated beit sports game or casino games, if we talks about sports bet being manipulated yes it can be physically manipulated either from the player or coach whomever that is deemed easily controlled by money but most times players are the people who are more likely to become manipulated due to the handsome offers that could be presented to them.
Now if we talking about casinos, this games can be also easily manipulated by the programer or from the casino end side where they would make winning chances very poor and make the losing possibilities extremely high to favor them. To me I sense that casinos are more manipulated compared to sports betting since they are being watched live on how they plays and runs it than casinos which you would never detect the overall system configuration and even though they said it's provably fair I wouldn't take that as an assurance or a total reliability to say that casino game is entirely fair enough to win easily.
Now if we talking about casinos, this games can be also easily manipulated by the programer or from the casino end side where they would make winning chances very poor and make the losing possibilities extremely high to favor them. To me I sense that casinos are more manipulated compared to sports betting since they are being watched live on how they plays and runs it than casinos which you would never detect the overall system configuration and even though they said it's provably fair I wouldn't take that as an assurance or a total reliability to say that casino game is entirely fair enough to win easily.
January 16, 2025, 04:46:40 AM
It is not paradox, it is logically true. You can`t influence the result in random games, so you have no reason even to try it. The same time, if the result can be predicted(without guarantee of course, just increase chances of winning) - you can manipulate it. If you don`t know the possible result, you don`t know what side you ought to move.
I agree. I have lost count of the number of interference and manipulations in sports betting - in football, basketball and some of the others. I can't even make any comparison with this in betting on casino games. Unless those who are now trying to use bots to manipulate the outcome of their games, which is still difficult and close to impossible, you can hardly find any issues like that compared to sportsbetting. In casino games, winning or losing is random unless the casino just had badly programmed games that are not provably fair. 
January 16, 2025, 04:38:44 AM
Gradually, I came to the conclusion that sports betting is more vulnerable to manipulation of the results of events and the subsequent use of insider information. Betting on events in general strongly depends on the scale of an event. The larger the event, the more difficult it is to influence its outcome to your advantage (a recent example of such a large-scale bet is a bet on the outcome of the US presidential election).
I totally agree with this, the amount of small scale sports matches I've seen that is clearly being manipulated by either the referees, the players, coaches, organizers, etc.. is just too many. it is also understandable that it is a lot easier to manipulate as there is less security and regulations on them compared to the big leagues. Jump to: