Consequences of high minimum wages: Automated ordering kiosks

TaunSew

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Quote from: hackjack on September 08, 2014, 12:48:16 PM

We should all look forward to being lazy, useless layabouts? or like what the founders of Google said along with Carlos Slim...we should place more importance on activities outside of work?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU

This was already covered in the previously mentioned video about horses. Since the horses are no longer needed for their labour, does that mean the horses will have all this free time to place more importance on activities outside of work?

No the horse being replaced meant the horse population plummeted and the few horses which remain are primarily work horses in tourism or in regions where people can't afford to mechanize farm labour.

What Corporate CEO is going to pay you to lounge all day without doing anything?

The social nets are currently funded by employed persons (who'll soon be out of jobs) or from corporations which receive their revenue from employed masses (who'll soon be out of jobs).

awesome31312

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Quote from: Bonam on September 08, 2014, 01:50:54 PM

I'm looking forward to more automation in the fast food industry. Less mistakes with your orders. Faster. More sanitary.

Not to mention, room for some "fun", especially if the machines are linked to a server Cheesy

Bonam

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I'm looking forward to more automation in the fast food industry. Less mistakes with your orders. Faster. More sanitary.

awesome31312

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I don't understand why you guys consider automated ordering a bad thing

This will ensure that useless jobs, like the fast food counter guys, are gotten rid of and replaced with machines, which would be more effective. This won't kill jobs, it will only replace them with newer, better ones. Maintenance of those machines isn't really free guys, someone has to fix it when it's down.

hackjack

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We should all look forward to being lazy, useless layabouts? or like what the founders of Google said along with Carlos Slim...we should place more importance on activities outside of work?

what if we didn't NEED to work so much as a society and we were free to pursue more noble activities?

umair127

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Quote from: sana8410 on August 21, 2014, 08:34:36 AM

Quote from: umair127 on August 21, 2014, 08:10:39 AM

Quote from: zolace on August 21, 2014, 07:20:16 AM

As much as I understand why companies would do it and how technology progresses, this is the start of something bad to come. The last thing we want is less jobs, period.

This is insane logic to me.But this logic, you think people should still be working 15 hour days in a pre-industrialized factory .I'd rather deal with a machine than a barely literate person that clearly doesn't want to be there.I'm okay with this.

People need to be working, getting paid, and being able to afford food to put on the table and a house to live in. They're not going to get a paycheck if Wall-E takes over their job.

Automation is GREAT if we have a society that is able to cope with the majority of people going out of a job.

But we don't. Our society is based on the premise that everyone needs to work.

This is what's going on, and this is why any optimism about people finding new stuff to make a living is completely unfounded:

http://andrewmcafee.org/2012/12/the-...he-us-economy/

sana8410

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Quote from: umair127 on August 21, 2014, 08:10:39 AM

Quote from: zolace on August 21, 2014, 07:20:16 AM

As much as I understand why companies would do it and how technology progresses, this is the start of something bad to come. The last thing we want is less jobs, period.

This is insane logic to me.But this logic, you think people should still be working 15 hour days in a pre-industrialized factory .I'd rather deal with a machine than a barely literate person that clearly doesn't want to be there.I'm okay with this.

People need to be working, getting paid, and being able to afford food to put on the table and a house to live in. They're not going to get a paycheck if Wall-E takes over their job.

umair127

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Quote from: zolace on August 21, 2014, 07:20:16 AM

As much as I understand why companies would do it and how technology progresses, this is the start of something bad to come. The last thing we want is less jobs, period.

This is insane logic to me.But this logic, you think people should still be working 15 hour days in a pre-industrialized factory .I'd rather deal with a machine than a barely literate person that clearly doesn't want to be there.I'm okay with this.

zolace

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As much as I understand why companies would do it and how technology progresses, this is the start of something bad to come. The last thing we want is less jobs, period.

pikabit

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The objectively dumb thing to do would be to stop automation. So from this premise find solutions.

Wilikon

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minds.com/Wilikon

Quote from: BPMich on August 19, 2014, 05:44:07 PM

It boggles my mind that some people don't see this coming. The only reason this technology wasn't being developped earlier was because it was more profitable to just employ people. If you push the minimum wage up, you're just accelerating automation. Ironically it leads to fever jobs, but the people who do have jobs will be paid higher Grin

at the low end anyway. (This is in the short term, in the long term, automation may actually create more jobs, but the price of that is heavy)

I mean come on, if someone is not producing over say $7 of value per hour, and you're suddenly forced to pay them $15, that just doesn't seem like a very sustainable business model, does it now?

Very smart people who seem to understand every single line of code in the bitcoin protocol right here can't accept or reject this 101 economy class as fraud and anti socialistic Cheesy

sana8410

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If anything, this is innovation, which we have been sorely lacking. Things much change to progress. This may blow up in his face and be a disaster, this may be something wonderful. This may be a push for some people to go into other fields of employment. Fact of the matter is, the old system wasn't working.

spazzdla

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Quote from: Snail2 on August 20, 2014, 05:49:07 AM

Quote from: CoinBoerse.com on August 19, 2014, 05:44:26 PM

The robots capability is increasing by day. I wonder what would my sons do in the future if most jobs is filled with robots.

Your sons should learn robotics, so they can repair the machines vandalized by the unemployed neo-luddites, thus getting a good salary

.

This is a good idea.

Rigon

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Quote from: sana8410 on August 20, 2014, 11:14:26 AM

Quote from: Ekaros on August 19, 2014, 02:40:33 PM

It's not all bad, automation increases efficiency and thus purchasing power.

On other hand, there needs to be solution for people who can't find work any more.

With respect to the fast food jobs that are being lost, this is 100% caused by being priced out by government intervention in payroll related costs. It's ridiculous to force employers to pay above market wages for jobs like this and expect to not have consequences with respect to job loss.

Be careful when you say "market wage"

We dont have a free market, so a "market wage" is not simply determined by supply and demand. "market wages" are affected by things like govt assistance programs and minimum wage.

I would argue that if you abolished the minimum wage and eliminated welfare programs, the "market wage" for many of these lower level jobs would be substantially higher than the current minimum wage. Prices for these goods would simply increase or companies would naturally move toward automation if they determined that their customers had no desire to interact with an employee.

Arguing that an arbitrary number (the current minimum wage) is adequate just because no one wants to increase it is dumb.

sana8410

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Quote from: umair127 on August 20, 2014, 11:23:36 AM

Automation isn't inherently a bad thing. It creates a lot of abundance and value for people. The problem is that our current system is wholly unprepared for this. Free market will adopt automation as fast as it can because it's so profitable. But those profits aren't going to be routed back to the society in which they're integrated.

This means that as we stand now, our economy has not a single clue about what to do with 80% of humanity being out of a job within a decade or two. Our response is going to be much slower than the automation trend so we'll end up lagging way behind in adapting to this game changer.

Whether or not you agree with it, society will inevitably move toward shorter work weeks and a basic income. This will be funded by higher taxes on wealthy people who are (for the most part) the only beneficiaries of higher profits. They may make a big fuss about it in the interim but they will accept it because they only make money when there is demand, and there is only demand when the general population has money to spend.

umair127

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Automation isn't inherently a bad thing. It creates a lot of abundance and value for people. The problem is that our current system is wholly unprepared for this. Free market will adopt automation as fast as it can because it's so profitable. But those profits aren't going to be routed back to the society in which they're integrated.

This means that as we stand now, our economy has not a single clue about what to do with 80% of humanity being out of a job within a decade or two. Our response is going to be much slower than the automation trend so we'll end up lagging way behind in adapting to this game changer.

umair127

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Quote from: sana8410 on August 20, 2014, 11:14:26 AM

Quote from: Ekaros on August 19, 2014, 02:40:33 PM

It's not all bad, automation increases efficiency and thus purchasing power.

On other hand, there needs to be solution for people who can't find work any more.

With respect to the fast food jobs that are being lost, this is 100% caused by being priced out by government intervention in payroll related costs. It's ridiculous to force employers to pay above market wages for jobs like this and expect to not have consequences with respect to job loss.

If you think its just unskilled workers' jobs on the chopping block, you're sorely mistaken. All white collar, professional, creative jobs are up for grabs - and the technology already exists to replace them.

Mass automation is already underway, and positions in which humans are required will be incredibly scarce.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU

sana8410

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Quote from: Ekaros on August 19, 2014, 02:40:33 PM

It's not all bad, automation increases efficiency and thus purchasing power.

On other hand, there needs to be solution for people who can't find work any more.

With respect to the fast food jobs that are being lost, this is 100% caused by being priced out by government intervention in payroll related costs. It's ridiculous to force employers to pay above market wages for jobs like this and expect to not have consequences with respect to job loss.

umair127

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Quote from: Rigon on August 20, 2014, 11:04:42 AM

"There are some structural issues with our economy where a lot of businesses have learned to become much more efficient with a lot fewer workers," Obama said. "You see it when you go to a bank and you use an ATM, you don't go to a bank teller, or you go to the airport and you're using a kiosk instead of checking in at the gate."

Structural issues....
when will our "leaders" admit the overwhelming structural issue of our society is a combined lack of personal responsibility, ambition, and relevant education.

Rigon

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"There are some structural issues with our economy where a lot of businesses have learned to become much more efficient with a lot fewer workers," Obama said. "You see it when you go to a bank and you use an ATM, you don't go to a bank teller, or you go to the airport and you're using a kiosk instead of checking in at the gate."

Topic: Consequences of high minimum wages: Automated ordering kiosks (Read 2250 times)