Cooling micro data center for miners

klondike_bar

legendary

Activity: 2128

Merit: 1005

ASIC Wannabe

Quote from: wangkanai on November 08, 2014, 12:19:56 AM

Quote from: klondike_bar on November 07, 2014, 11:04:27 PM

Quote from: wangkanai on November 06, 2014, 08:06:15 AM

Quote from: BitcraneAU on November 06, 2014, 01:38:46 AM

Hi, any sort of "refrigerator" or "air-conditioning" system will not be enough to cool your average Bitcoin miner. The most important thing is bring in fresh, outside air into the unit and taking the hot air away as far as possible, so high RPM large fans are the best way to go. The most important thing is the amount of cubic feet of air per minute the fan can move.

Source; Running a mine in Australia, Summer :/

Ossy guys I hear a lot about evaporative free cooling over there in Australia. That kind technology is easy to implement and cost a lot to build and operate. Would that be solution for bitcoin mining. Their will be 1 pump and I think we can use the miner fan to pull in the air and a exhaust fan to take out the heat.
What do you think of the idea?

i think you dont know whether to use refrigeration systems, immersion cooling, or evaporative cooling, yet claim to have thorough knowledge of each. The point is that cooling can be different for every location, but refrigeration tech is 100% the least cost-efficient

If you are an expert, please send me your CV and we can talk about a job offer for you over here to Thailand to help me a perfect cooling bitcoin mining.
FYI. This cabinet doesn't use refrigeration, it use precision cooling data center with airflow optimization front to back.

build an ope-air system with high airflow. use evaporative cooling. Look at cowboyminer's farm (pre-burning to the ground) for an idea of how to operate high density without cabinets.

If you want quiet high density, look at datatank.

and no, im not an expert with a CV in HVAC- only an engineer happy working in canada.

Biffa

legendary

Activity: 3234

Merit: 1220

Quote from: wangkanai on November 08, 2014, 12:19:56 AM

If you are an expert, please send me your CV and we can talk about a job offer for you over here to Thailand to help me a perfect cooling bitcoin mining.
FYI. This cabinet doesn't use refrigeration, it use precision cooling data center with airflow optimization front to back.

I've highlighted your problem right there, you need to be in or close to the Arctic circle or Antarctic circle to make use of low ambient temperatures, then all you need is high airflow, and in the summer when the ambient rises a bit you can use evaporative coolers if you need extra.

You're just in the wrong place thats all, your trying to find a solution to a problem that doesn't exist where bitcoin mining farms are best located.

wangkanai

newbie

Activity: 16

Merit: 0

Quote from: klondike_bar on November 07, 2014, 11:04:27 PM

Quote from: wangkanai on November 06, 2014, 08:06:15 AM

Quote from: BitcraneAU on November 06, 2014, 01:38:46 AM

Hi, any sort of "refrigerator" or "air-conditioning" system will not be enough to cool your average Bitcoin miner. The most important thing is bring in fresh, outside air into the unit and taking the hot air away as far as possible, so high RPM large fans are the best way to go. The most important thing is the amount of cubic feet of air per minute the fan can move.

Source; Running a mine in Australia, Summer :/

Ossy guys I hear a lot about evaporative free cooling over there in Australia. That kind technology is easy to implement and cost a lot to build and operate. Would that be solution for bitcoin mining. Their will be 1 pump and I think we can use the miner fan to pull in the air and a exhaust fan to take out the heat.
What do you think of the idea?

i think you dont know whether to use refrigeration systems, immersion cooling, or evaporative cooling, yet claim to have thorough knowledge of each. The point is that cooling can be different for every location, but refrigeration tech is 100% the least cost-efficient

If you are an expert, please send me your CV and we can talk about a job offer for you over here to Thailand to help me a perfect cooling bitcoin mining.
FYI. This cabinet doesn't use refrigeration, it use precision cooling data center with airflow optimization front to back.

klondike_bar

legendary

Activity: 2128

Merit: 1005

ASIC Wannabe

Quote from: wangkanai on November 06, 2014, 08:06:15 AM

Quote from: BitcraneAU on November 06, 2014, 01:38:46 AM

Hi, any sort of "refrigerator" or "air-conditioning" system will not be enough to cool your average Bitcoin miner. The most important thing is bring in fresh, outside air into the unit and taking the hot air away as far as possible, so high RPM large fans are the best way to go. The most important thing is the amount of cubic feet of air per minute the fan can move.

Source; Running a mine in Australia, Summer :/

Ossy guys I hear a lot about evaporative free cooling over there in Australia. That kind technology is easy to implement and cost a lot to build and operate. Would that be solution for bitcoin mining. Their will be 1 pump and I think we can use the miner fan to pull in the air and a exhaust fan to take out the heat.
What do you think of the idea?

i think you dont know whether to use refrigeration systems, immersion cooling, or evaporative cooling, yet claim to have thorough knowledge of each. The point is that cooling can be different for every location, but refrigeration tech is 100% the least cost-efficient

wangkanai

newbie

Activity: 16

Merit: 0

Quote from: BitcraneAU on November 06, 2014, 01:38:46 AM

Hi, any sort of "refrigerator" or "air-conditioning" system will not be enough to cool your average Bitcoin miner. The most important thing is bring in fresh, outside air into the unit and taking the hot air away as far as possible, so high RPM large fans are the best way to go. The most important thing is the amount of cubic feet of air per minute the fan can move.

Source; Running a mine in Australia, Summer :/

Ossy guys I hear a lot about evaporative free cooling over there in Australia. That kind technology is easy to implement and cost a lot to build and operate. Would that be solution for bitcoin mining. Their will be 1 pump and I think we can use the miner fan to pull in the air and a exhaust fan to take out the heat.
What do you think of the idea?

klondike_bar

legendary

Activity: 2128

Merit: 1005

ASIC Wannabe

Quote from: wangkanai on November 05, 2014, 07:54:58 PM

Quote from: mavericklm on November 05, 2014, 08:03:12 AM

positive roi? nothing!!!

Don't think so. How would big data center make their profit in this crytocurrency mining business then?

1) by not spending $5000 per specialized rack that isnt necessary
2) by not spending aan extra 30% on power for each of these specialised racks, then still having heat to cool yet again.

its not complicated. Mining equipment blows the heat out the back of a rack. Your equipment contains this heat, cools it at PUE 1.3 or worse, and then dumps that 130%+ heat OUT THE BACK OF THE RACK.

This idea would cost more, weigh more, draw more power, and create more heat. I do not think there is a single benefit other than perhaps a slight noise reduction

BitcraneAU

newbie

Activity: 5

Merit: 0

Hi, any sort of "refrigerator" or "air-conditioning" system will not be enough to cool your average Bitcoin miner. The most important thing is bring in fresh, outside air into the unit and taking the hot air away as far as possible, so high RPM large fans are the best way to go. The most important thing is the amount of cubic feet of air per minute the fan can move.

Source; Running a mine in Australia, Summer :/

wangkanai

newbie

Activity: 16

Merit: 0

Quote from: mavericklm on November 05, 2014, 08:03:12 AM

positive roi? nothing!!!

Don't think so. How would big data center make their profit in this crytocurrency mining business then?
All their is to return on investment within the lifespan of the mining rig that paid for both hardware and electricity bill at the current value of bitcoin. Let me do the math later in the day.

mavericklm

hero member

Activity: 742

Merit: 500

positive roi? nothing!!!

notlist3d

legendary

Activity: 1456

Merit: 1000

Quote from: wangkanai on November 05, 2014, 07:15:52 AM

Quote from: mavericklm on November 04, 2014, 10:56:23 AM

not worth! we have negative roi on everything and you come up with more costs in the electric bill!

Is their anything that make roi?

Depends on electricity price. But no matter what the margins are not big enough for hobby miners to buy cabinet like that or immersion. I wish they were I would love to have my miners in cabinets like that.

The big data centers use lots of air. Just would cost to much to add these costs no matter size of mining operation.

wangkanai

newbie

Activity: 16

Merit: 0

Quote from: mavericklm on November 04, 2014, 10:56:23 AM

not worth! we have negative roi on everything and you come up with more costs in the electric bill!

Is their anything that make roi?

mavericklm

hero member

Activity: 742

Merit: 500

not worth! we have negative roi on everything and you come up with more costs in the electric bill!

Newar

legendary

Activity: 1358

Merit: 1001

https://gliph.me/hUF

Quote from: notlist3d on November 04, 2014, 09:50:45 AM

You can spend a ton on cabinets... immersion... i think in end you will figure out most use lots and lots of air. They extract the heat with massive amount of air.

I hope i'm wrong and you make a huge amount, I always wish business with bitcoins luck. But in this case i think you will find eventually most use air (fans, cooling, etc) and will not spend the money for the cabinets with cooling in them or immersion.

And on top of that most miners are tinkerers too. So if they really want to do fridge/immersion they will find a way and in the process realise it's cheaper to build something locally.

notlist3d

legendary

Activity: 1456

Merit: 1000

You can spend a ton on cabinets... immersion... i think in end you will figure out most use lots and lots of air. They extract the heat with massive amount of air.

I hope i'm wrong and you make a huge amount, I always wish business with bitcoins luck. But in this case i think you will find eventually most use air (fans, cooling, etc) and will not spend the money for the cabinets with cooling in them or immersion.

wangkanai

newbie

Activity: 16

Merit: 0

yap, their is a lot more to learn and waiting for your advice Cheesy

seriouscoin

hero member

Activity: 658

Merit: 500

Quote from: wangkanai on November 04, 2014, 12:47:36 AM

Quote from: seriouscoin on November 03, 2014, 11:54:13 PM

Quote from: wangkanai on November 03, 2014, 09:55:41 PM

Quote from: notlist3d on November 03, 2014, 09:33:12 PM

Quote from: klondike_bar on November 03, 2014, 08:59:29 PM

Quote from: wangkanai on November 03, 2014, 07:59:55 PM

This project is proven to been feel interesting. Yes, right now my cabinet is 3.5kw capacity. The question is how capacity should I upgrade my design. Talking from point that I have pictures shown as working production for another application already. So I like to find a spot in bitcoin mining. But the one I have does not fit the capacity requirements yet.
Thank you for your advice mate

I am racking my brain to understand what situation someone would ever use a 20kW contained-cooling rack. Usually these are used with 1-2kW of gear as a sound-dampening enclosure, not meant to actually cool a large amount of power.

OPTION 1: You put 20kW of equipment in an open rack or on shelving. It costs <$400. 20kW of heat is blown out the back of the cabinet.
OPTION 2: You put 20kW of equipment into a sealed enclosure with a 1.3 PUE AC built in. It costs >$5000 and weighs >300lbs when empty. 26kW of heat is blown out the back of the cabinet.

oh, and option 2 is a little quieter, you only have the noise of a 20kW-capable air conditioner.

Seriously - this is a product with no market. Liquid Immersion cooling tanks are the obvious alternative, and are quieter, FAR more power efficient, and can move the heat outside of a building by pumping the hot liquid to a radiator located on the roof.

It might allow a data center without the airflow to host a few miners. But cost I don't see this as feasible.

The true data centers for bitcoin have massive airflow. And they would never need this.

I would have to agree to expensive to hobby miners, and no market for these in a true bitcoin data center.

The product sale good with more then 10,000 units to market like bank branch, small office, cellular site and etc in Thailand alone. Heat pass through a duct out of the room.

Immersion cooling is what I'm looking at next. I'm developing a 200kw per horizontal rack with micro chiller. Trying to make one withIn $20K budget right now.

LOL you just pulled that shit from Alliedcontrol didnt you?

Such a joke.

Actually no, I did such project as OEM for supercomputer heat pipe cooling direct to CPU before.
Personally i like what allied control did with their modular design.

Uh wut? yeah that would help you with your immersion project....lol you have alot more to learn then.

BTW, the 200kW per tank was actually calculated by AlliedControl. So dont BS, you might find someone who works with AlliedControl on here ...wink wink*

wangkanai

newbie

Activity: 16

Merit: 0

Quote from: seriouscoin on November 03, 2014, 11:54:13 PM

Quote from: wangkanai on November 03, 2014, 09:55:41 PM

Quote from: notlist3d on November 03, 2014, 09:33:12 PM

Quote from: klondike_bar on November 03, 2014, 08:59:29 PM

Quote from: wangkanai on November 03, 2014, 07:59:55 PM

This project is proven to been feel interesting. Yes, right now my cabinet is 3.5kw capacity. The question is how capacity should I upgrade my design. Talking from point that I have pictures shown as working production for another application already. So I like to find a spot in bitcoin mining. But the one I have does not fit the capacity requirements yet.
Thank you for your advice mate

I am racking my brain to understand what situation someone would ever use a 20kW contained-cooling rack. Usually these are used with 1-2kW of gear as a sound-dampening enclosure, not meant to actually cool a large amount of power.

OPTION 1: You put 20kW of equipment in an open rack or on shelving. It costs <$400. 20kW of heat is blown out the back of the cabinet.
OPTION 2: You put 20kW of equipment into a sealed enclosure with a 1.3 PUE AC built in. It costs >$5000 and weighs >300lbs when empty. 26kW of heat is blown out the back of the cabinet.

oh, and option 2 is a little quieter, you only have the noise of a 20kW-capable air conditioner.

Seriously - this is a product with no market. Liquid Immersion cooling tanks are the obvious alternative, and are quieter, FAR more power efficient, and can move the heat outside of a building by pumping the hot liquid to a radiator located on the roof.

It might allow a data center without the airflow to host a few miners. But cost I don't see this as feasible.

The true data centers for bitcoin have massive airflow. And they would never need this.

I would have to agree to expensive to hobby miners, and no market for these in a true bitcoin data center.

The product sale good with more then 10,000 units to market like bank branch, small office, cellular site and etc in Thailand alone. Heat pass through a duct out of the room.

Immersion cooling is what I'm looking at next. I'm developing a 200kw per horizontal rack with micro chiller. Trying to make one withIn $20K budget right now.

LOL you just pulled that shit from Alliedcontrol didnt you?

Such a joke.

Actually no, I did such project as OEM for supercomputer heat pipe cooling direct to CPU before.
Personally i like what allied control did with their modular design.

wangkanai

newbie

Activity: 16

Merit: 0

Quote from: seriouscoin on November 03, 2014, 11:51:43 PM

Quote from: wangkanai on November 03, 2014, 07:59:55 PM

This project is proven to been feel interesting. Yes, right now my cabinet is 3.5kw capacity. The question is how capacity should I upgrade my design. Talking from point that I have pictures shown as working production for another application already. So I like to find a spot in bitcoin mining. But the one I have does not fit the capacity requirements yet.
Thank you for your advice mate

Hey are you a failed engineer or something?

You CANT upgrade the cabinet cooling capacity due to the damn design is based on phased change. There will be no compressor setup in the world that can handle 10kW that can fit in that cabinet.

You want high density, look for other alternatives.

You are correct the compressor. With the upgrade design this unit will be by external chiller sending cooled water.

seriouscoin

hero member

Activity: 658

Merit: 500

Quote from: wangkanai on November 03, 2014, 09:55:41 PM

Quote from: notlist3d on November 03, 2014, 09:33:12 PM

Quote from: klondike_bar on November 03, 2014, 08:59:29 PM

Quote from: wangkanai on November 03, 2014, 07:59:55 PM

This project is proven to been feel interesting. Yes, right now my cabinet is 3.5kw capacity. The question is how capacity should I upgrade my design. Talking from point that I have pictures shown as working production for another application already. So I like to find a spot in bitcoin mining. But the one I have does not fit the capacity requirements yet.
Thank you for your advice mate

I am racking my brain to understand what situation someone would ever use a 20kW contained-cooling rack. Usually these are used with 1-2kW of gear as a sound-dampening enclosure, not meant to actually cool a large amount of power.

OPTION 1: You put 20kW of equipment in an open rack or on shelving. It costs <$400. 20kW of heat is blown out the back of the cabinet.
OPTION 2: You put 20kW of equipment into a sealed enclosure with a 1.3 PUE AC built in. It costs >$5000 and weighs >300lbs when empty. 26kW of heat is blown out the back of the cabinet.

oh, and option 2 is a little quieter, you only have the noise of a 20kW-capable air conditioner.

Seriously - this is a product with no market. Liquid Immersion cooling tanks are the obvious alternative, and are quieter, FAR more power efficient, and can move the heat outside of a building by pumping the hot liquid to a radiator located on the roof.

It might allow a data center without the airflow to host a few miners. But cost I don't see this as feasible.

The true data centers for bitcoin have massive airflow. And they would never need this.

I would have to agree to expensive to hobby miners, and no market for these in a true bitcoin data center.

The product sale good with more then 10,000 units to market like bank branch, small office, cellular site and etc in Thailand alone. Heat pass through a duct out of the room.

Immersion cooling is what I'm looking at next. I'm developing a 200kw per horizontal rack with micro chiller. Trying to make one withIn $20K budget right now.

LOL you just pulled that shit from Alliedcontrol didnt you?

Such a joke.

seriouscoin

hero member

Activity: 658

Merit: 500

Quote from: wangkanai on November 03, 2014, 07:59:55 PM

This project is proven to been feel interesting. Yes, right now my cabinet is 3.5kw capacity. The question is how capacity should I upgrade my design. Talking from point that I have pictures shown as working production for another application already. So I like to find a spot in bitcoin mining. But the one I have does not fit the capacity requirements yet.
Thank you for your advice mate

Hey are you a failed engineer or something?

You CANT upgrade the cabinet cooling capacity due to the damn design is based on phased change. There will be no compressor setup in the world that can handle 10kW that can fit in that cabinet.

You want high density, look for other alternatives.

Topic: Cooling micro data center for miners (Read 3309 times)