Could we invalidate all regulations?

centralbanksequalsbombs

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Quote from: Yuhee on October 23, 2017, 12:07:29 AM

Quote from: Ccexicocartel on October 22, 2017, 08:58:47 PM

That would be ideal but you have to think about the government. It survives off of collecting taxes. it would disintegrate if everyone just only used bitcoin without any regulation

Well then the economy of a government fall down if it is without taxes. Because if all transaction would eventually go to bitcoin, then their will be no money for the government and it will go to businessmen or corporation. That would mean big conglemerate is getting richer while the government itself is just stuck. Unless the government would make services with bitcoin, then it is really hard for the economy to increase without taxes.

Opposite. The big conglomerates would become weaker and smaller/go out of business if governments got weaker or smaller.

Governments together with big banks protect the big congomerates and basically feed an anti-competitive environment especially as regulations are introduced. The biggest and richest can easily comply with any such regulations and also can afford to pay for sponsoring to make more regulations to stave off competition.

Lieldoryn

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Quote from: RenegadeMind on October 14, 2017, 07:08:28 PM

Quote from: savushkinTA on October 14, 2017, 03:52:40 PM

I think it's necessary that the bitcoin rate be more stable

I'm not so sure about that. If merchants are using payment solutions to exchange instantly, then it's not really a big deal. Also, at that rate, then you've got a much higher velocity of money, which would put upwards pressure on the purchasing power of bitcoins. If anything, merchants would tend to hold what they didn't need for immediate liquidity and they'd welcome BTC purchases.

However, that's again predicated on enough merchants accepting it for it to be used much.

Traders who trade for cash are unable to accept bitcoins even if they wanted to. They are obliged to trade only in the national currency. Why not accept bitcoin online shops, I don't understand. It seems to me that it will be profitable for them, but they will lay in the cost of additional expenses and this may deter buyers because in bitcoin the price will be higher than Fiat. To be honest that buyers don't want to leave bitcoin because it is rising in price and they try to keep it in their wallets.

Yuhee

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Quote from: Ccexicocartel on October 22, 2017, 08:58:47 PM

That would be ideal but you have to think about the government. It survives off of collecting taxes. it would disintegrate if everyone just only used bitcoin without any regulation

Well then the economy of a government fall down if it is without taxes. Because if all transaction would eventually go to bitcoin, then their will be no money for the government and it will go to businessmen or corporation. That would mean big conglemerate is getting richer while the government itself is just stuck. Unless the government would make services with bitcoin, then it is really hard for the economy to increase without taxes.

Ccexicocartel

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That would be ideal but you have to think about the government. It survives off of collecting taxes. it would disintegrate if everyone just only used bitcoin without any regulation

8270thNinja

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busy in real life, long post gap is understandable

Bitcoin as a payment on these merchants will always be "fiat-dependent" . Do you think stores will accept bitcoin if the price is on it's lowest value? Will the customer pay bitcoin if the price is on it's highest? SIMPLY NO. We are far away from the scenario that you've given. Stable prices most come first with a little volatility on it and an acceptable regulatory policies.

centralbanksequalsbombs

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Bitcoin :open immutable decentralized global fair

Quote from: RenegadeMind on October 14, 2017, 07:08:28 PM

Quote from: savushkinTA on October 14, 2017, 03:52:40 PM

I think it's necessary that the bitcoin rate be more stable

I'm not so sure about that. If merchants are using payment solutions to exchange instantly, then it's not really a big deal. Also, at that rate, then you've got a much higher velocity of money, which would put upwards pressure on the purchasing power of bitcoins. If anything, merchants would tend to hold what they didn't need for immediate liquidity and they'd welcome BTC purchases.

However, that's again predicated on enough merchants accepting it for it to be used much.

Yes, with due time this will occur. Even though Bitcoin is incredibly strong, growing and established for 8 years....you gotta remember that its still not at 1% adoption of all people yet.

Once it hits around 1.5%, and then a few years later when it hits 3% global adoption, then that pretty much equals mainstream.

RenegadeMind

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Quote from: savushkinTA on October 14, 2017, 03:52:40 PM

I think it's necessary that the bitcoin rate be more stable

I'm not so sure about that. If merchants are using payment solutions to exchange instantly, then it's not really a big deal. Also, at that rate, then you've got a much higher velocity of money, which would put upwards pressure on the purchasing power of bitcoins. If anything, merchants would tend to hold what they didn't need for immediate liquidity and they'd welcome BTC purchases.

However, that's again predicated on enough merchants accepting it for it to be used much.

savushkinTA

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I think it's necessary that the bitcoin rate be more stable

jdarren

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In utopia it would work, but everyone has their own interests in mind including the government and us as well

bubblebit

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Trust me it is harder than we thought, business sectors are mostly government dependent. Those owners won’t make any move when the government is not supporting this currency. They don’t want to penalise with this as they’re protecting they’re asssets and licenses that was provided to them.

Business and Government is always together on one goal and you can’t separte them both as it will never be.

kkent

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Quote from: ajareselde on July 11, 2014, 01:05:56 PM

Quote from: Yakamoto on July 11, 2014, 12:42:20 PM

I was thinking for a while, and realised that most government regulations are imposed when a person exchanges BTC -> fiat. I'm sure you all know this.

If we convinced local grocery stores to accept BTC, wouldn't that mean we could very well live in a society where we don't need to exchange to fiat?

If you can buy the necessities of life with Bitcoin, then why would you need fiat? There's websites that sell anything you can think of for Bitcoin.

Just food for though, I'd like to see what everyone's opinion is.

And sorry if this has been discussed many times before, I'm just curious.

DISCUSS!

Yes, i see your point. But note one thing, most of the transactions , if not all, associated with merchants who accept btc use service like bitpay, which instantly converts btc to fiat.
One could do as u say if we remove the conversion from purchases, but its highly unlikely that anyone would want to gamble their sales profit on bitcoin price.

Idealy, the system would work, but in real life, it wouldnt stand a chance im afraid.

Businesses doing high $ value transactions would be especially hesitant because of the potential for such massive loses if BTC goes down immediately after the transaction.

kimochidesh

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If all start accepting BTC then it would be so-called 'people's currency'. No need to depend on any govt. to issue a fiat currency for their currency. But I don't believe it will happen. Growing popularity of BTC has become a headache for central authorities as they don't have any control on it. If they approve it then only we could see this scenario of free BTC transaction for daily need stuff.

thr3

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You have to understand that regulations are part of a civilized society. Regulations are bigger than any government or organization and without regulations, there will be anarchy.

In cryptocurrency, if you notice now, there are still people calling for regulations especially in terms ICO and if bitcoin splits this time, people might be asking for some sort of mechanism (regulation) to govern how changes to bitcoin happen (you cant have forks after each breaking change).

Although I personally believe that cryptocurrencies should be self-regulated by the community, we all know this will not happen as usually there is always a power centralization of some sort happening - eg. Bitcoin Core, Miners, Exchanges .... are essentially the authority in bitcoin.

Don Pedro Dinero

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What has happened here is that Governments and establishment dreamt of a cashless free society where their economic power would be absolute. No transaction would escape from their control. They were having a happy dream and that dream became a nightmare when bitcoin appeared.

Regulations will come, some already have, but users have ways of escaping from the system if they wish. Chip mixers have been mentioned here, Monero transactions are completely anonymous and more ways of anonymity will appear.

I don’t think that regulations are bad. I think prohibitions would be worse. In my view, digital future will be something like cash society nowadays: some people only do 100% legal transactions but some of them use cash to smuggle drugs or to make transactions without paying tax. Electricity sector is regulated but you can use fiat to pay electricity bills and to pay your electrician under the table, without a bill.

Qartersa

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Quote from: Yakamoto on July 11, 2014, 12:42:20 PM

I was thinking for a while, and realised that most government regulations are imposed when a person exchanges BTC -> fiat. I'm sure you all know this.

If we convinced local grocery stores to accept BTC, wouldn't that mean we could very well live in a society where we don't need to exchange to fiat?

If you can buy the necessities of life with Bitcoin, then why would you need fiat? There's websites that sell anything you can think of for Bitcoin.

Just food for though, I'd like to see what everyone's opinion is.

And sorry if this has been discussed many times before, I'm just curious.

DISCUSS!

In our country, you can invalidate regulations provided it does not impair vested rights. That means, all those who relied on it in good faith will be protected by law. In this sense, if you have transacted on the faith of an old regulation during said time (or during the life of the regulation's validity), it will be as it is and it cannot be subsequently invalidated by a new regulation. So as we speak of Bitcoin, be it known that what is applicable is the regulation during the time of your transaction, and it cannot thereby be invalidated in the future through a new regulation.

Proton2233

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Quote from: Yuhee on October 12, 2017, 05:21:09 AM

Quote from: Nameless27 on October 12, 2017, 04:04:50 AM

Quote from: peter0425 on October 11, 2017, 08:12:10 PM

Quote from: Nameless27 on October 11, 2017, 05:47:16 PM

This regulation even it’s either the transaction is bitcoin to fiat or vice versa, the government will implement a counter bill to or amend the existing one to cater that idea your thinking of. Government is not just focusing on what is trend but on where is the money that circulating for the taxes. We can’t blame them because a country needs taxation to work and function.

This regulation if this is for the goodness of the people and the country, I think the bitcoin community will support it.

I think with the gaining popularity of bitcoin, its just a matter of time for the government to really target it for tax purposes. We are one step ahead of them though, but sooner or later they will caught on us specially those not paying taxers. So regulations will the norm for all of us. Its gonna be arduous task for government to do this, but they don't care as long as they can chase people not paying taxes.

Will the community support it? Well for now its really hard to tell, maybe the community will be divided by government imposed bitcoin regulations. Let's see how things turns out in the future.

I would gladly be the one on supporting this regulation and taxation, only if the government official running my country is not corrupt, serve for the betterment of its citizen and work to follow the law to be a good leader. In my country I do now, support our new president and administration and any law regarding taxation is welcome as we have seen tremendous work they’re doin now for infrastructure in our convenience.

Maybe not all bitcoiners will support this move but sooner or later we can’t run and hide for long. We need to face and share as a goodman in our nation.

I suppose i will agree too and it will also help a nation economically if they will use it positively. Tax should really be imposed so that it could also give back for the government. Because if it wont be taxed, where can the government get its funds also?. It's harsh for the reality but if only the citizens will get the benefit of bitcoin, it wont really help the country specially those bitcoin investors does not really help the community. And i think corporations will also manipulate if ever btc will be regulated but not fully taxed.

If you were talking about taxes in favor of the bitcoin community we could discuss but as for the state that is the questions. The reason is that people started to use bitcoins is that they no longer trust the monetary policies of the state. This is especially true for people with low income. Why should they pay taxes to the state which does not trust?

Yuhee

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Quote from: Nameless27 on October 12, 2017, 04:04:50 AM

Quote from: peter0425 on October 11, 2017, 08:12:10 PM

Quote from: Nameless27 on October 11, 2017, 05:47:16 PM

This regulation even it’s either the transaction is bitcoin to fiat or vice versa, the government will implement a counter bill to or amend the existing one to cater that idea your thinking of. Government is not just focusing on what is trend but on where is the money that circulating for the taxes. We can’t blame them because a country needs taxation to work and function.

This regulation if this is for the goodness of the people and the country, I think the bitcoin community will support it.

I think with the gaining popularity of bitcoin, its just a matter of time for the government to really target it for tax purposes. We are one step ahead of them though, but sooner or later they will caught on us specially those not paying taxers. So regulations will the norm for all of us. Its gonna be arduous task for government to do this, but they don't care as long as they can chase people not paying taxes.

Will the community support it? Well for now its really hard to tell, maybe the community will be divided by government imposed bitcoin regulations. Let's see how things turns out in the future.

I would gladly be the one on supporting this regulation and taxation, only if the government official running my country is not corrupt, serve for the betterment of its citizen and work to follow the law to be a good leader. In my country I do now, support our new president and administration and any law regarding taxation is welcome as we have seen tremendous work they’re doin now for infrastructure in our convenience.

Maybe not all bitcoiners will support this move but sooner or later we can’t run and hide for long. We need to face and share as a goodman in our nation.

I suppose i will agree too and it will also help a nation economically if they will use it positively. Tax should really be imposed so that it could also give back for the government. Because if it wont be taxed, where can the government get its funds also?. It's harsh for the reality but if only the citizens will get the benefit of bitcoin, it wont really help the country specially those bitcoin investors does not really help the community. And i think corporations will also manipulate if ever btc will be regulated but not fully taxed.

Nameless27

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Quote from: peter0425 on October 11, 2017, 08:12:10 PM

Quote from: Nameless27 on October 11, 2017, 05:47:16 PM

This regulation even it’s either the transaction is bitcoin to fiat or vice versa, the government will implement a counter bill to or amend the existing one to cater that idea your thinking of. Government is not just focusing on what is trend but on where is the money that circulating for the taxes. We can’t blame them because a country needs taxation to work and function.

This regulation if this is for the goodness of the people and the country, I think the bitcoin community will support it.

I think with the gaining popularity of bitcoin, its just a matter of time for the government to really target it for tax purposes. We are one step ahead of them though, but sooner or later they will caught on us specially those not paying taxers. So regulations will the norm for all of us. Its gonna be arduous task for government to do this, but they don't care as long as they can chase people not paying taxes.

Will the community support it? Well for now its really hard to tell, maybe the community will be divided by government imposed bitcoin regulations. Let's see how things turns out in the future.

I would gladly be the one on supporting this regulation and taxation, only if the government official running my country is not corrupt, serve for the betterment of its citizen and work to follow the law to be a good leader. In my country I do now, support our new president and administration and any law regarding taxation is welcome as we have seen tremendous work they’re doin now for infrastructure in our convenience.

Maybe not all bitcoiners will support this move but sooner or later we can’t run and hide for long. We need to face and share as a goodman in our nation.

peter0425

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Quote from: Nameless27 on October 11, 2017, 05:47:16 PM

This regulation even it’s either the transaction is bitcoin to fiat or vice versa, the government will implement a counter bill to or amend the existing one to cater that idea your thinking of. Government is not just focusing on what is trend but on where is the money that circulating for the taxes. We can’t blame them because a country needs taxation to work and function.

This regulation if this is for the goodness of the people and the country, I think the bitcoin community will support it.

I think with the gaining popularity of bitcoin, its just a matter of time for the government to really target it for tax purposes. We are one step ahead of them though, but sooner or later they will caught on us specially those not paying taxers. So regulations will the norm for all of us. Its gonna be arduous task for government to do this, but they don't care as long as they can chase people not paying taxes.

Will the community support it? Well for now its really hard to tell, maybe the community will be divided by government imposed bitcoin regulations. Let's see how things turns out in the future.

Zenithar

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Quote from: Palmerson on October 11, 2017, 04:33:52 AM

Quote from: MiF on October 08, 2017, 11:22:25 PM

Quote from: Yakamoto on July 11, 2014, 12:42:20 PM

I was thinking for a while, and realised that most government regulations are imposed when a person exchanges BTC -> fiat. I'm sure you all know this.

If we convinced local grocery stores to accept BTC, wouldn't that mean we could very well live in a society where we don't need to exchange to fiat?

If you can buy the necessities of life with Bitcoin, then why would you need fiat? There's websites that sell anything you can think of for Bitcoin.

Just food for though, I'd like to see what everyone's opinion is.

And sorry if this has been discussed many times before, I'm just curious.

DISCUSS!

Fiat is the most convenient way to buy things and pay services in which some of establishments mostly small player wont need the power of computer or digital technology but some how your point is an advantage to the digital transaction in which the most safest way than bringing actual money that it might be lost or steal, but this cannot be exempt in goverment regulations as they will just make an policy to urge establishments to list down the names of their clients with the transaction codes and ask to pay value added tax of using the bitcoin as form of payment therefore bitcoin regulations could be anywhere as long your transaction is digital.

It's not real. As soon as there will be cases when the government will try to trace transactions in bitcoins and to impose a tax on all of their users will use mixers. The government will once again be at an impasse. But that's not the problem. The problem is that the community is prepared to repel the attacks of the governments. You need to remember that the best way to defend is attack.

I think it is not possible. Because lots of people have invested in bitcoin and now it is not possible to invalidate its regulations. All the people in the world want bitcoin to be regularized and one day it will be regularized. I think no body now can stop bitcoin from prevailing and regularization. Bitcoin is life for many people because it is the only source of their income and they have invested lot on money in it.

Topic: Could we invalidate all regulations? (Read 3229 times)