Topic: Countries with the most expensive fuel | Greece's case study - page 3. (Read 630 times)
Its funny to see some of the members are suggesting EVs to deal with the increase in fuel price but running car isn't the only thing we get affected whenever the price of fuel increase. Increase of fuel price affect every consumer goods which affects the living cost even contribute to the further increase of inflation when the market is already down due to economic crash all over the world. Finding the alternative source is long term and need bigger change in the current infrastructure so government has to stop spending the taxes for their defence and start spending it in the more useful ways. How many of you agree with it?
Due to the ongoing war, inflation along with fuel prices have skyrocketed among the globe, with households not being able to keep up with the increased living costs. However, the impact of the increased living costs differ from country to country.
Let's take Greece's case for instance, which is the country of my residency. According to CNN Greece and MurciaToday, it has the third more expensive fuel in Europe, averaging 2.17€/liter of 95 unleaded, right after Finland and Denmark at 2.218€/liter and 2.208€/liter respectively. On top of that, the average mentioned price isn't that accurate anymore, due to the article being two days old already and the prices are increasing on a daily basis. The average is close to 2.20-2.22€/liter, but that could also be valid for the other two mentioned countries.
However, Denmark and Finland have one of the highest salaries and considerably best living conditions in Europe. Denmark on the one hand, doesn't feature an official minimum wage, but statistics show that the average income per individual is $2580 (~2450 euros). Finland on the other hand, also doesn't have an official minimum wage imposed, however the minimum salary someone can expect starts from €1.500 to €2.500. Greece's minimum wage however, doesn't exceed €713 before taxes. It's pretty obvious that you can easily see the difference.
The Greek citizens are suffering from the increased living costs, since everything has skyrocketed in price, from daily expenses such as gas and going to the supermarket, to electricity and utility bills. Personally, in my area petrol costs €2.35/liter, while I had to pay €300 for my electricity bill (4 months period), while increases in daily groceries have surpassed 20% in some products, such as meat and vegetables.
Sources: https://m.murciatoday.com/diesel_prices_in_spain_exceed_eu_average_for_first_time_1776291-a.html
https://www.cnn.gr/oikonomia/story/313066/spaei-ta-konter-i-timi-tis-venzinis-aplisiasta-ta-pratiria-sta-nisia/amp
Let's take Greece's case for instance, which is the country of my residency. According to CNN Greece and MurciaToday, it has the third more expensive fuel in Europe, averaging 2.17€/liter of 95 unleaded, right after Finland and Denmark at 2.218€/liter and 2.208€/liter respectively. On top of that, the average mentioned price isn't that accurate anymore, due to the article being two days old already and the prices are increasing on a daily basis. The average is close to 2.20-2.22€/liter, but that could also be valid for the other two mentioned countries.
However, Denmark and Finland have one of the highest salaries and considerably best living conditions in Europe. Denmark on the one hand, doesn't feature an official minimum wage, but statistics show that the average income per individual is $2580 (~2450 euros). Finland on the other hand, also doesn't have an official minimum wage imposed, however the minimum salary someone can expect starts from €1.500 to €2.500. Greece's minimum wage however, doesn't exceed €713 before taxes. It's pretty obvious that you can easily see the difference.
The Greek citizens are suffering from the increased living costs, since everything has skyrocketed in price, from daily expenses such as gas and going to the supermarket, to electricity and utility bills. Personally, in my area petrol costs €2.35/liter, while I had to pay €300 for my electricity bill (4 months period), while increases in daily groceries have surpassed 20% in some products, such as meat and vegetables.
Sources: https://m.murciatoday.com/diesel_prices_in_spain_exceed_eu_average_for_first_time_1776291-a.html
https://www.cnn.gr/oikonomia/story/313066/spaei-ta-konter-i-timi-tis-venzinis-aplisiasta-ta-pratiria-sta-nisia/amp
It's always interesting to see such observations but it is really hard to make comparisons between countries for so many factors like the ones you describe. I think generally in Europe and similar countries in "The West" we have incredibly privileged and relatively stable lifestyles, even when you factor in recent issues with inflation - the effects are much worse elsewhere. You make some reference to Scandinavian countries and their politicians were surprising sensible and honest with using funds gathered from oil extraction, putting it into sovereign wealth funds which give their citizens a much greater return over the long term than allowing a few companies to profit huge amounts that only benefit shareholders.
A few weeks ago, the government provided most citizens with a prepaid card, with a balance ranging from 40€ to 55€, depending your geographic location. To be honest, such measure is a drop to the ocean, doesn't even provide us with a temporary solution. A new fuel pass is now being discussed to he distributed in June or July, which also won't solve a thing.
Rumors have it that due to upcoming elections that may occur within the end of the year or during the start of 2023, the excise tax may be reduced, as a promotional measure for the elections.
Rumors have it that due to upcoming elections that may occur within the end of the year or during the start of 2023, the excise tax may be reduced, as a promotional measure for the elections.
All of this matters a a lot, not common and great but it is definitely done by many people. So going to another nation for something cheaper there is a common thing.
That's correct. But I was not criticizing, although I somewhat think that this is how you see my post. No, I was explaining that Greece's overly high prices for fuel are not new and they're well known.
The same thing also occurs in other Balkan countries, such as Serbia or Bulgaria, where teeth procedures are extremely cheap compared to the rest of Europe.
All of this matters a a lot, not common and great but it is definitely done by many people. So going to another nation for something cheaper there is a common thing.
That's correct. But I was not criticizing, although I somewhat think that this is how you see my post. No, I was explaining that Greece's overly high prices for fuel are not new and they're well known.
Greece and Italy too are "in my book" somewhere at the "far end of the pipe", i.e. I think that logistics may be playing an important role in the price, no matter it's a real pipe or it's about transportation on the road.
For those living near the northern part - close to Macedonian border - refueling abroad is a real deal.
Many tourists also do the same - refuel in Macedonia, just before entering Greece.
All this is known and it's not new at all. Of course, in the same way the fuel prices skyrocketed everywhere, they did - most probably proportionally - also in Greece.
There are tons of people who do this all over the world though, it is not just based on Greece or any other nation. I have seen it around my nation, seen it in other nations as well, even people in USA do it with Mexico. In fact, this is done with many sectors, like how Americans have literally "healthcare tourism" to Canada for example, because even with insurance, the charges are capped hence why it's cheaper. Many people who live in places like detroit for example end up going to Canada for dentist appointments.For those living near the northern part - close to Macedonian border - refueling abroad is a real deal.
Many tourists also do the same - refuel in Macedonia, just before entering Greece.
All this is known and it's not new at all. Of course, in the same way the fuel prices skyrocketed everywhere, they did - most probably proportionally - also in Greece.
All of this matters a a lot, not common and great but it is definitely done by many people. So going to another nation for something cheaper there is a common thing.
I would say that regular petrol price in my country is close to 2 EUR price. Every day price is balancing between several cents. I think month ago, we had a situation when diesel fuel cost more than petrol, but right now the situation has returned to pre-war, when diesel cost 5-8 cents less than regular petrol. As usually, this excise tax is half of a petrol price. Decreasing it for a while would greatly help those who travel a lot.
Personally, I have decreased car usage. The amount spend on fuel for traveling home-work-home weekly equals the cost of a monthly public transport ticket. I have replaced short rides and car rides to work with electric scooter. I've have bought it used, and costs paid off long time ago.
Personally, I have decreased car usage. The amount spend on fuel for traveling home-work-home weekly equals the cost of a monthly public transport ticket. I have replaced short rides and car rides to work with electric scooter. I've have bought it used, and costs paid off long time ago.
The graph is from 2020's first quarantine, and as you can see, we still had one of the most expensive fuels in Europe, but still, seeing €1.30-€1.40 at the pump was a delight to say the least.
You're right, I was somehow convinced that it was a chart from 2021, so I wrote that it was something 1 year old. On the page that is the source of the chart, I found data from March 2021, where you can see how the shares in fuel prices and tariffs, and VAT increased. At the moment, I do not see how the situation can be improved, unless the states give up even more money in favor of ordinary people when it comes to tariffs and VAT.
For those who travel every day and use their own car, the situation is not pleasant at all - and the only thing they can suggest is to try to organize themselves in such a way that more people traveling in the same direction drive with one vehicle and share the costs. It's not very practical, but if someone spends $400 a month on fuel, it can be reduced to $100 if we take into account that there are 4 people in the car.
https://www.fuelseurope.eu/data-room/breakdown-of-automotive-gasoline-prices-across-eu-27-march-2021/
Dont forget about excise tax. It differs from country to country. The price spread of pure oil is not that huge if we compare prices. Excise tax is what makes fuel price so high. There are European countries where fuel suppliers pay 500 EUR excise tax for every 1000 liters. Government could have decreased excise tax, but they prefer to collect more taxes, and complain about deficit in budget. So if you want to study fuel prices, start with excise tax, only then you would find most expensive fuel. Because it might be, that fuel itself cost less compared to other country, while fuel price on petrol station is higher.
That's correct, in Greece, we have an excise tax of 700 euros per 1000 liters, which equivalents with 0.70 cents in each liter. Other countries such as Cyprus, have at least lowered the excise tax temporarily, till the situation settles.Anyway, I believe not being in the Eurozone as a benefit anymore, since most countries I've seen that still have their own currency are in a way better standing than we are. Inflation here is soaring while wages are quite terrible for the majority of the population.
~snip~
Dont forget about excise tax. It differs from country to country.
It is true that the price of fuel has two very important components that are different in all member states, and it is about the tariffs and VAT. Data from 1 year ago show that these tariffs are highest in the Netherlands, Italy, Greece, Finland, and France, and lowest in Hungary, Bulgaria, Poland, and Romania (non-eurozone members).
Source
Anyway, I believe not being in the Eurozone as a benefit anymore, since most countries I've seen that still have their own currency are in a way better standing than we are. Inflation here is soaring while wages are quite terrible for the majority of the population.
Common measures and policies do not always have the same effect on every EU member state, and this is quite logical because each country has its own specifics. While the ECB is still not doing anything concrete to stop inflation, non-eurozone members have some financial instruments to do something to protect their residents. Unfortunately, the EU's weaknesses are best seen now, but will only be felt in the near future when everyone can feel it on their skin.
Dont forget about excise tax. It differs from country to country.
It is true that the price of fuel has two very important components that are different in all member states, and it is about the tariffs and VAT.
Source
Dont forget about excise tax. It differs from country to country. The price spread of pure oil is not that huge if we compare prices. Excise tax is what makes fuel price so high. There are European countries where fuel suppliers pay 500 EUR excise tax for every 1000 liters. Government could have decreased excise tax, but they prefer to collect more taxes, and complain about deficit in budget. So if you want to study fuel prices, start with excise tax, only then you would find most expensive fuel. Because it might be, that fuel itself cost less compared to other country, while fuel price on petrol station is higher.
Politicians? We voted for them and this is how they repay us now that's the beauty of it. If we speak on the terms of technical background then crude oil is way way cheaper and based on that prices fuel can be made available in cheap forms. However, prices are only soaring because it's "made short" in those countries but thr supply is still full, barrels are overflooded in Russia and Arab countries. This is not something low supply high demand situation. Frankly it's war strategy that's all.
The problem Europe has is that it does not produce oil, or almost no oil, we could say, especially compared to other parts of the world. And that, like it or not, fossil fuels are the cheapest form of energy. Add to this the shift to a "greener" energy model based mainly on cheap gas (much of which comes from Russia) to support so-called clean energies, and we see the perfect recipe for the current disaster, which has been triggered by the war, but could have happened for other reasons as well.
The U.S. can make oil cheaper by producing more of it. Greece and the European countries cannot. The other way to lower gasoline prices would be via reduced demand, as happened when the world was half paralyzed by Covid, which if it happens again would be a bad sign.
The gas issue will also impact the European way of life. Less and more expensive gas. I hope that at some point this will turn around, but the outlook looks bleak.
The U.S. can make oil cheaper by producing more of it. Greece and the European countries cannot. The other way to lower gasoline prices would be via reduced demand, as happened when the world was half paralyzed by Covid, which if it happens again would be a bad sign.
The gas issue will also impact the European way of life. Less and more expensive gas. I hope that at some point this will turn around, but the outlook looks bleak.
I have to say it's all about politicians and how people elect the right people. Places near that east Europe block, do not have politicians that are decent, and using that indecent methods to keep staying in power. Greece may be seen as a place that has decent people, but their ruling parties has always been terrible and never managed the nation properly. Whereas people in Norway, Finland, Sweden and all of that has been shown as an example of how great a nation could be ruled.
The biggest power any citizen has is their vote, and unfortunately many nations have citizens voting for the "most powerful person" by their logic, not the one that will rule the nation best.
The biggest power any citizen has is their vote, and unfortunately many nations have citizens voting for the "most powerful person" by their logic, not the one that will rule the nation best.
~Snip~
Excuse me for not replying, I was unavailable the past two days, despite logging in.That's correct, Greece went through a terrible phase in 2010, with awful austerity measures. I can't claim that we were "saved" since the International Monetary Fund (IMF) admitted that they hadn't assessed the situation correctly, making a few mistakes in the measures that were taken. Anyway, I believe not being in the Eurozone as a benefit anymore, since most countries I've seen that still have their own currency are in a way better standing than we are. Inflation here is soaring while wages are quite terrible for the majority of the population.
Greece and Italy too are "in my book" somewhere at the "far end of the pipe", i.e. I think that logistics may be playing an important role in the price, no matter it's a real pipe or it's about transportation on the road.
For those living near the northern part - close to Macedonian border - refueling abroad is a real deal.
Many tourists also do the same - refuel in Macedonia, just before entering Greece.
All this is known and it's not new at all. Of course, in the same way the fuel prices skyrocketed everywhere, they did - most probably proportionally - also in Greece.
And something more: it's interesting to watch how much is the fuel price taxed. In some countries (including Romania) the tax is overly high. It may be the same situation in Greece too. And then it's the government that has to do something, even if it's temporary.
LE: One chart I find pretty good is: https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/gasoline_prices/Europe/ (just make sure you set price to EUR)
Greece and Italy share quite a few similarities indeed. It's true, people living near the Macedonian border are opting to buy petrol from there, I would too, provided that I had the option, it's way cheaper there. Unfortunately, those living in islands, like myself, are met with extravagant fuel prices, in some islands it has even surpassed €2.5/liter.For those living near the northern part - close to Macedonian border - refueling abroad is a real deal.
Many tourists also do the same - refuel in Macedonia, just before entering Greece.
All this is known and it's not new at all. Of course, in the same way the fuel prices skyrocketed everywhere, they did - most probably proportionally - also in Greece.
And something more: it's interesting to watch how much is the fuel price taxed. In some countries (including Romania) the tax is overly high. It may be the same situation in Greece too. And then it's the government that has to do something, even if it's temporary.
LE: One chart I find pretty good is: https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/gasoline_prices/Europe/ (just make sure you set price to EUR)
Fuel prices have certainly skyrocketed everywhere, however, due to the unfair taxation here, which always took place, and the price increases in every aspect of our daily lives, have become unbearable. We always had expensive fuel, but we're now on the top of the list with countries that have double or triple wages compared to ours.
In Greece they don’t travel as much.
I commute to work and university every day, meaning that I do over 30-40 kilometers a day, it might seem a little for USA's standards, but it's not only the fuel that has skyrocketed. Add the electricity, fuel, groceries and your salary isn't enough anymore. 
I remember back in 2008 during the financial crisis they kept talking about PIGS. It meant Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain. They had a horrible recession with double digit unemployment. They had it for years even after the US economy recovered.
The high gases prices probably is nothing new. Compared to America most people there drive less and have cars with smaller engines. In America we got V8 large trucks and many commute 1-2 hours each day for work. In Greece they don’t travel as much.
The high gases prices probably is nothing new. Compared to America most people there drive less and have cars with smaller engines. In America we got V8 large trucks and many commute 1-2 hours each day for work. In Greece they don’t travel as much.
Yes we all remember the big financial crash of 2007/2008 and the resulting hardship felt
more so in P, I, G and Spain, the ongoing inflation and effects from war related sanctions
could well be felt the hardest in those 4 countries again.
I live in the E.U and in my country we experienced Diesel touching €2 per litre and everything
else is rising and costs are being pushed down to the consumer.
And, sadly, since a big percent of that fuel comes from Russia, these elevated prices help Russia's war effort. Isn't politics a bitch?
Politics is a dirty business and there is no doubt about it, but in this particular case, we can see that some are still dirtier than others. The Russians are playing their strongest cards and already 5 or 6 years ago they knew the exact moves of their opponents - and the proof of that is that the sanctions have not practically touched them. They say the EU alone spends about 1 EUR billion a day on oil and gas, not to mention how much more money comes from the rest of the world.
I hope that everyone will learn something from this, although in the short term Russia can create big problems when it comes to oil and gas supplies to the EU. Summer hasn't even started yet, but winter is not so far away.
Yea I think there are still a lot of moves which have yet to play out, oil and gas supply
from Russia is massive and major disruption will play havoc with everyones lives,
of course it will hit the consumer the hardest.
You get what you pay for! They imposed the sanctions all over Russia and now they are fighting back with brain game here. This is but obvious, this is war and the most essential thing in the war is food and fuel. You lower or cut down the supply of single commodity and the whole supply chain goes down. Putting it easily if you stop the fuel you get hampered with traveling, supply chain of food chain slows down and gets costly too. So all in all things start messing up.
The rise of fuel is soaring in many Asian countries too due to their tax system too.
The rise of fuel is soaring in many Asian countries too due to their tax system too.
And, sadly, since a big percent of that fuel comes from Russia, these elevated prices help Russia's war effort. Isn't politics a bitch?
Politics is a dirty business and there is no doubt about it, but in this particular case, we can see that some are still dirtier than others. The Russians are playing their strongest cards and already 5 or 6 years ago they knew the exact moves of their opponents - and the proof of that is that the sanctions have not practically touched them. They say the EU alone spends about 1 EUR billion a day on oil and gas, not to mention how much more money comes from the rest of the world.
I hope that everyone will learn something from this, although in the short term Russia can create big problems when it comes to oil and gas supplies to the EU. Summer hasn't even started yet, but winter is not so far away.
Isn't politics a bitch?
It is expensive to be alive or live nowadays
This about pros being a zombie. You dont need food (hello upcoming wheat problem), you can walk as much as you want (you dont need to bother about "expensive fuel"), you dont need medicine, fancy clothes and etc.
In Greece they don’t travel as much.
That doesn't matter at all.
Even if people may not travel such long distances so often, they still do travel. Even more, all goods are sent to supermarkets by trucks, hence the fuel prices are seen pretty fast in everything one is buying.
And, sadly, since a big percent of that fuel comes from Russia, these elevated prices help Russia's war effort. Isn't politics a bitch?
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