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Topic: Craig & Satoshi. A sly attempt to get gavin's will done. (Read 1375 times)

sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262

That is a jumbled analysis which doesn't explain well the situation.

I already explained it more clearly:

Remember that Craig Wright had obtained funding for and was running a the largest Supercomputer in Australia. So what Craig has ostensibly done is he is used supercomputer resources to find the inverse of a hash function and then used one of Satoshi old transactions to pretend he has the private key:

The implication is that either Craig Wright has stumbled upon an infinitesimally rare occurrence of an SHA256 collision, or that he had used the signature from block 258 to reverse engineer a hash (the first shown in his blog demonstration) and hoped that nobody would notice. ycombinator user JoukeH noticed.

And with his access to a supercomputer, it is plausible he was able to reverse the hash in order to find a text that matched the signature that was already on the blockchain. Without that explanation, then he must have the private key! You seem to not understand the technology.  Roll Eyes

Let me unpack that more for n00bs. The point is that every Bitcoin signature signs the hash (of a hash) of the transaction. And so if someone can create two transactions that have the same hash, then one can use the same signature for both, i.e. no need to have the private key to generate a new signature.

What Craig did was reuse an existing signature from the block chain which is attributed to Satoshi, and supplied it as the signature for a new transactions. Specifically the new transaction is some text written by Sartre but the key point is that normally it should impossible to find a new set of data which can generate the same hash, because of the preimage resistance security property of the SHA256 cryptographic hash function.

Re-read my post, you didn't seem to understand it. Craig has not said he is Satoshi. Find a quote where he said that. You won't. He has always said it was his colleague.

Listen to the first few minutes of the BBC interview

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36191165

"You're going to show me that Satoshi is you?"

Craig - "yes"

Remember Craig is a lawyer. Remember how Bill Clinton explained in court what the meaning of 'is' is.

Craig has consistently claimed he was backing "the persona behind Satoshi" and was part of a group involved with Satoshi, so the above statement is consistent with that, without him actually being the man who developed the code of Bitcoin with his own fingers. The interviewer did not ask Craig "are you going to prove you are the man who wrote the code of Bitcoin?" which obviously can't be proved nor disproved by any signature since Satoshi did not sign the code of Bitcoin.



Is Satoshi after all of Blockstream?

Quote
I have had no communication with Mr Wright at all, let alone signed anything. I understand that there is some information sheet Wright is giving reporters that specifically attacks me, however!

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4hs2ca/can_all_core_developers_confirm_they_havent/



Hey dufus - why don't you look at the BBC article itself: http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-36168863

It says: "Australian entrepreneur Craig Wright has publicly identified himself as Bitcoin creator Satoshi Nakamoto."

Where did they get the information from - they got it from Craig Wright - still going to say he hasn't identified himself as being Satoshi?

You are quoting what a reporter has said, not what Craig has said. I said find a quote where Craig has claimed his is the man who wrote the code for Bitcoin. You will never find that.

Butthurt idiot. Bye.

I see you locked your thread again. You are an emotional basketcase.

I am replying to every topic where my post is relevant. I am not the one who created so many duplicate topics.

It isn't relevant and it is just spamming (you could start your own topic of course).

And if he was saying that he just knew Satoshi and is not Satoshi then why does Gavin come out this "meeting" saying that he is Satoshi (surely he would  have told Gavin it was his friend and not him).

You are just butthurt.

It is very relevant.

Craig has played Gavin. He knows Gavin needs support for his preferences for the block scaling debate.

Butthurt by what exactly?

(perhaps due to seeing your same post spammed in every topic?)

Don't pretend you've forgotten when you closed the technical thread where we were debating and told me in PM that you never wanted to talk to me again.

I don't have time for your melodrama. Bye.



It's increasingly obvious that despite not being able to present actual cryptographic proof Wright is putting a lot of effort into obfuscation and trying to sway the public opinion, whether it's for his business interests or something else.

You do not seem to understand the math. Either Craig broke SHA256 or he has Satoshi's private key.

Also by getting core Bitcoin devs and their tribe to claim that the proof Craig provided is not a proof, he has revealed them as being disingenuous. Very clever political game theory he has concocted.

Craig has astutely accomplished his goal, as only 42% of Bitcoiners conclude he can't be Satoshi. And when and if Craig signs coins from an early block of Bitcoin, the level of confusion will increase. Craig is playing a political game theory.

I think bringing in a dead person into this is just a scapegoat by Craig Wright to confuse spectators. If this is true, why would he pretend being Satoshi by signing a fake message? Until Craig comes up with this extraordinary proof he says, I refuse to believe anything that came from him.

Refusing to believe is not the same as proving he is not. Craig is winning the political game theory. He is a clever lawyer mofo.


One theory that is being floated on Reddit runs like this:

Kleiman is Satoshi, and had the keys to the ~1 million bitcoins. He dies, and his USB stick/computer/whatever went to a relative, who doesn't realize what he is holding. Wright knew Kleiman and knew he was Satoshi. So he invents this crazy story about being Satoshi, but that he can't spend the coins because they are all in a trust that was held by Kleiman.

So now Wright comes public claiming to be Satoshi - and sets himself up to launch a lawsuit against Kleiman's relative to get "his" bitcoins back. If Wright pulls this off, he gains the fabled treasure of 1 million bitcoins off Kleiman's estate.

Thoughts pro and con?



I just came up with another theory though...we might be missing the forest for the trees. Much of what CW has said has proven sketchy, or even downright lies (claiming multiple fake phd's for instance). We do know one thing that's incontrovertible: CW was very interested in high performance computing / supercomputing. Think about that for a minute.

Now what if Kleiman, being the typical computer geek, enjoyed the intellectual challenge of creating the code but had little interest in testing...and asked his friend CW to help test Bitcoin by mining. It's very possible that CW could own Block 1, and even if not, it's still possible that a significant part of Satoshi's stash...actually doesn't belong to Satoshi. What if most/all the coins we thought were Satoshi's were actually CW's?

It's also possible that Kleiman wrote the first version of the Bitcoin code, and that CW took over testing, bug fixing, and future development. Kleiman could have written the code, while CW could have been the "Satoshi" that communicated extensively with Gavin and others...

I think that CSW stumbled upon Bitcoin circa 2013 (late 2012 at the earliest) and started concocting a narrative to fit his long con. Stumbling upon the death of David Kleiman, a person who CSW co-wrote with, Craig saw that the pieces of Dave's life fit nicely in what's known about Satoshi. It was just a matter of creating docs to make it look like he and Dave were partners of sorts which I've demonstrated he's done.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
No - what Craig did was grab an existing signature used by Satoshi and pretend he had created it to sign a document by Sartre (which is fraud and even Gavin is not sure what on earth to make of that).

And he *is* claiming to be Satoshi (which is why he asked Gavin to come and *verify* his claim).

Also - why are you posting the exact same thing in multiple topics?

Re-read my post, you didn't seem to understand it. Craig has not said he is Satoshi. Find a quote where he said that. You won't. He has always said it was his colleague.

And with his access to a supercomputer, it is plausible he was able to reverse the hash in order to find a text that matched the signature that was already on the blockchain. Without that explanation, then he must have the private key! You seem to not understand the technology.  Roll Eyes

I am replying to every topic where my post is relevant. I am not the one who created so many duplicate topics.

I am replying to every topic where my post is relevant. I am not the one who created so many duplicate topics.

It isn't relevant and it is just spamming (you could start your own topic of course).

And if he was saying that he just knew Satoshi and is not Satoshi then why does Gavin come out this "meeting" saying that he is Satoshi (surely he would  have told Gavin it was his friend and not him).

You are just butthurt.

It is very relevant.

Craig has played Gavin. He knows Gavin needs support for his preferences for the block scaling debate.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 1083
Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile
Sure, so his immensely rich friend was satoshi even though they invented them both. He died and leaving all the riches to him... convenient in the ways of story telling and monetary gain.

And now Craig is immensely rich. I wonder what would happen if australian tax agency would believe this and knock on his door. Cheesy Probably the story will fall apart pretty fast.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
Quote
Craig "Satoshi" Wright said he was going to move them

hahah this guy is so funny lol. He doesn't need to move any coin to prove it, just sign the fcking message if he has the prive keys

Something is weird. He provided a message and a signature, but there's nothing in the message to indicate that he signed it himself, or when it was signed. It could have been signed months or years ago and there's no way to prove otherwise.

To understand what is really going on, you need to read carefully what Craig Wright has always said and continues to reiterate:

In his initial blog post, Wright noted that “Satoshi is dead... but this is only the beginning.” He also said that he would follow up with a more detailed mathematical explanation for the revelation. Now, the world will likely have to wait for “the coming days”—however long that may be—for more clues.

If I sign Craig Wright, it is not the same as if I sign Craig Wright, Satoshi.

I think this is true, but in my heart I wish it wasn’t.

Since those early days, after distancing myself from the public persona that was Satoshi,

Satoshi is dead.

But this is only the beginning.

You need to remember that Craig Wright has never claimed he is Satoshi Nakamoto. Instead, he has claimed that his former colleague (who died) was Satoshi. He claims he was backing his colleague's the development of Bitcoin.

This Australian Says He and His Dead Friend Invented Bitcoin



David Kleiman, Craig Wright's friend more likely Satoshi Nakamoto

OK so this might get a little meandering but I keep finding tidbits of David Kleiman's life that makes him a far more likely candidate for Satoshi than Wright. So here are some in no specific order.

Remember that Craig Wright had obtained funding for and was running a the largest Supercomputer in Australia. So what Craig has ostensibly done is he is used supercomputer resources to find the inverse of a hash function and then used one of Satoshi old transactions to pretend he has the private key:

The implication is that either Craig Wright has stumbled upon an infinitesimally rare occurrence of an SHA256 collision, or that he had used the signature from block 258 to reverse engineer a hash (the first shown in his blog demonstration) and hoped that nobody would notice. ycombinator user JoukeH noticed.

Realize that he has probably promised to endorse Andresen's block chain scaling preferences and thus probably why Gavin wants him to be Satoshi:

Andresen’s only attempt at an explanation for Wright’s bizarre behavior, he says, is an ambivalence about definitively revealing himself after so many years in hiding. “I think the most likely explanation is that … he really doesn’t want to take on the mantle of being the inventor of Bitcoin,” says Andresen, who notes that his own credibility is at stake, too. “Maybe he wants things to be really weird and unclear, which would be bad for me.”

That uncertainty, Andresen says, seemed to be evident in Wright’s manner at the time of their demonstration. Andresen describes Wright as seeming “sad” and “overwhelmed” by the decision to come forward. “His voice was breaking.

Remember that after his death, David Kleiman's family recovered his USB flash drive and gave it to Craig Wright. Thus likely Craig Wright may have an unpublished transaction but not the actual private key. So he may be about to fool the world into thinking he is Satoshi, or making some proof that he was the man behind the man who was the real Satoshi.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1074
I personally think he {Gavin} just got fooled by Craig, and now he turns this around by saying his account was hacked. There is no doubt in my mind that there are something bigger going on in the

background, but I cannot see Gavin being stupid enough to be part of that... He might just have made a mistake, and feels to sheepish to acknowledge that in public. I also say some stupid things,

when I had a few rounds at my local Pub... like now.  Grin Grin Grin
sr. member
Activity: 433
Merit: 260
Isn't it kinda nice to see Gavin self-destruct?

Is there anyone who still thinks we aren't witnessing coordinated covert attacks against Bitcoin?
legendary
Activity: 2674
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Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile
Tons of sockpuppet newbie accounts popping up and saying things like "Hahaha bitcoin ponzi scheme is just about to collapse"
Actually, I have already come to a conclusion that this is organized. Even though I can't attain any evidence (who knows who is behind the spambot), I do nuke a lot of them regularily. I wanted to keep quiet, but since you have already mentioned it, I might fill in. Not long ago the pattern (for a short amount of time) was something about "new coins coming to market and dump-ing" (I can't recall exact phrase); now the spammer is stating that "Craig will dump and crash the market". This is definitely not a coincidence (as it tends to happen with other negative news as well).

It probably is planned, otherwise Gavin was tricked or that person is really satoshi.

But I don't think it was planned by traders. I think there are a couple of people that try to manipulate the price the way you described. But they usually jump on any event. That's probably why they are so active now.
legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1024
I was thinking the same the very second I read that Gavin got an exclusive private verification session. While we still have to wait for the final result of the current drama, I'm pretty sure that Gavin is finally done as a leading developer of Bitcoin Core. And that is good news for all of us: No more bootlicking attempts with the establishment, no more attacks on decentralization.

The price will now tank a bit, but in the long term this is great and will lead to a better atmosphere in the development community.

ya.ya.yo!
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1147
The revolution will be monetized!
Or just that Gavin thinks it is Satoshi. Of course he does not know either, but someone is.
All that has to happen is for Craig to cryptographically sign something the right way.
member
Activity: 96
Merit: 10
Tons of sockpuppet newbie accounts popping up and saying things like "Hahaha bitcoin ponzi scheme is just about to collapse"

Also its very strange that just now that this FUD story is out, the sockpuppets have multiplied.

Always good indicator its really right time to buy more Bitcoins on such dips.


Anyway, are there any facts Gavin confirmed Craig Wright is Satoshi except these conditions which have not met at all (especially signing earliest coinbase Bitcoin address from block 0), or this thread is just typical anti Gavin FUD thread on bitcointalk from blockstreamers?

Quote from: from Andresen email (supposedly)
I’d want to see:
A message signed with the same PGP key Satoshi used back in 2010. (…but his computer could have been hacked)
A message signed with keys from early Bitcoin blocks (…but his wallet could have been stolen).
Email or private forum posts he sent to me in 2010 (… but email could have been hacked).
A conversation about technical stuff, ideally via email, so I can see if it feels like the same person I communicated with in 2010.  
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 500
There are several theories as why Gavin has made that statement:
1) He's delusional.
2) He has been hacked.
3) Craig supports big blocks.

4) he has been made a party to proofs that the wider public hasn't (hasn't because Craig Wright would really prefer for you to remain sceptical about his provenance)
legendary
Activity: 1862
Merit: 1004
Is it possible that Gavin Andresen has been paid off to confirm a fake story?

No. He was such an early bitcoiner that he has loads of coins and doesn't need to be paid off. He also invented the faucet and gave away thousands of bitcoins in the early days. Gavin doesn't need the money.
Some people are not doing things for money. They do it to ensure their dominant position and force their point of view - and I think Gavin is like that.
legendary
Activity: 1652
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Is it possible that Gavin Andresen has been paid off to confirm a fake story?

No. He was such an early bitcoiner that he has loads of coins and doesn't need to be paid off. He also invented the faucet and gave away thousands of bitcoins in the early days. Gavin doesn't need the money.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2965
Terminated.
Tons of sockpuppet newbie accounts popping up and saying things like "Hahaha bitcoin ponzi scheme is just about to collapse"
Actually, I have already come to a conclusion that this is organized. Even though I can't attain any evidence (who knows who is behind the spambot), I do nuke a lot of them regularily. I wanted to keep quiet, but since you have already mentioned it, I might fill in. Not long ago the pattern (for a short amount of time) was something about "new coins coming to market and dump-ing" (I can't recall exact phrase); now the spammer is stating that "Craig will dump and crash the market". This is definitely not a coincidence (as it tends to happen with other negative news as well).

And bear in mind that the media outlets who supplied the blanket coverage for this latest story deserve some blame for the manipulation, as they all have their regular name-checked experts, Gavin Andresen and Mike Hearn, to check Craig's working.
It is quite rare that some news-site or blog remains skeptical about this (IIRC the CNN article about it questions the claim rather than spreading the false information further).

hopefully he will say something in the next 48 hours.
That is too long.
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1014
In Satoshi I Trust
There are several theories as why Gavin has made that statement:
1) He's delusional.
2) He has been hacked.
3) Craig supports big blocks.


He already lost commit access due to confirming a false story, i.e. helping Craig manipulate the population.

hopefully he will say something in the next 48 hours.
legendary
Activity: 3430
Merit: 3080
He already lost commit access due to confirming a false story, i.e. helping Craig manipulate the population.

And bear in mind that the media outlets who supplied the blanket coverage for this latest story deserve some blame for the manipulation, as they all have their regular name-checked experts, Gavin Andresen and Mike Hearn, to check Craig's working. And apparently not one of these numerous "reputable" media outlets could find someone reliable, including the Hearndresen ameobi? Seems kinda ridiculous after the way in which the implausibility of Wright's claims were previously dismissed (and which the same kind of media outlets also reported on)
hero member
Activity: 1036
Merit: 504
Becoming legend, but I took merit to the knee :(
To me Craig and Gavin are both utter bullshits... The so called blog post craig wrote isn't prov of being satoshi at all, just telling non savvy it users how signature works.. The easiest way to prove he is satoshi is by moving the freaking coins, be it the whole block 1 to 9 or just 0.000001. He mentioned that it is held by a trust so not touchable. Just move to another address held by the same trust would prove the same too. As long as the coins are moved it is good proof.
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 251
Shit, did I leave the stove on?
Is it possible that Gavin Andresen has been paid off to confirm a fake story? Or an even crazier idea - what if Gavin and Craig devised this fake stunt story together and Craig volunteered to be the public face of the Satoshi impostor and help Gavin propose new Bitcoin core design decisions? I think there is a whole lot more than meets the eye in this.
hero member
Activity: 854
Merit: 1009
JAYCE DESIGNS - http://bit.ly/1tmgIwK
There are several theories as why Gavin has made that statement:
1) He's delusional.
2) He has been hacked.
3) Craig supports big blocks.


He already lost commit access due to confirming a false story, i.e. helping Craig manipulate the population.

Also there is a manipulation campaign going on right now as we speak.

I have observed many sockpuppet accounts in the Speculator board and now in the Bitcoin Discussion board as well.

Tons of sockpuppet newbie accounts popping up and saying things like "Hahaha bitcoin ponzi scheme is just about to collapse"

Also its very strange that just now that this FUD story is out, the sockpuppets have multiplied.

It might very well be a pump and dump scam going on as, as the price just dropped a little bit as a result.

I`m not sure if Gavin or Craig is complicit in this pump and dump, but you being a moderator might want to warn the other moderators too and want to be very sharp on this, because it looks too orchestrated to be just a simple coincidence.
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1088
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It is interesting how people react so fast with sell orders. Why people investing in bitcoin if they are not sure what they are doing and every lilly shitty tweet can disturb their business decisions? But i will buy again..Thanks for stupidity.

Traders want to protect themselves first and foremost. Bad news always gets sold, and they can always buy back later if necessary. Whereas being a hero and hodling can be expensive.
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