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Topic: Create a player list of rights - page 2. (Read 397 times)

hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 1004
Goodnight, ohh Leo!!! 🦅
March 10, 2024, 03:40:53 PM
#14
Why is it so odd to want to improve crypto reputation?  I asked for someone else to lead it.  I'll make a lot of other suggestions if I feel they can improve things - it does not mean I'll take them all on personally.  Smiley
There's absolutely nothing wrong with trying to improve crypto reputation. If in any case you wanna take this up, then you gotta hire a lawyer/jurist and place an ultimatum/sanction on the ACGOs, on behalf of the gamblers in that particular territory.. "You gotta take the bull by the horn"...question there is -- is this exactly the sector to begin the cleansing?? if after giving this some thoughts and it took you too much time to think already, then you're on the wrong path.

Sandra 🧑‍🦰
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1049
Eloncoin.org - Mars, here we come!
March 10, 2024, 03:05:58 PM
#13
this is like a union in the gambling forum  Grin

hard to say it will work. the casino is bigger than this forum and they could just leave here if they are threatened. but Vod is right though. basically this is just a one-sided battle for gamblers who want to protect themselves. it's already normal for casinos to ask KYC and as you have submitted your documents, you are already known to them and that's besides the fact that the funds are stuck in the betting platform.
legendary
Activity: 2800
Merit: 1128
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
March 10, 2024, 02:31:05 PM
#12
Based on this post and the two responses, I realized another opportunity to actually contribute to the community, and not just my buddies.  Wink   A group of players should get together to create a list of "rights" they demand, and issue a certification for those casinos that agree to follow them.   Eventually, hopefully, increased success of those sites displaying the certification would lead to others sites following.

Obviously, a right cannot be something that harms the site, such as "A player wins if ..." but instead something like "The site lists every condition that would enable them to freeze or seize assets as part of the registration and/or deposit process." 

Such a list of rights would not harm the legit sites in any way.   Who wants to champion this?
I totally agree it's worrying that people are giving away of their consumer rights, by accepting many of these ToS:es. But i can't find any reason why any casino would agreeing on doing anything like this.

Because building that kind of list of reasons would need to be bullet proof, and wording would have to be very careful, so that it leaves to space for interpretation. And if someone found a loophole from that list of reasons (that would be probably long as bible), are we saying that casino couldn't freeze the account and that user could just lawfully keep abusing the casino until they accept the new rules?

Even laws gets fixed all the time because people keep finding new loopholes, so it would definitely happen with a list that promises to cover every specific reason for freezing an account.
So as that list would keep constantly changing to fix and prevent exploits, we would need to keep researching it every day what's been updated and accept that.

I am not trying to be difficult here, i am just thnking this from the point of a casino lawyer. Maybe i am overthinking this but i am sure there must be some other way to deal with this.
legendary
Activity: 3192
Merit: 1198
Bons.io Telegram Casino
March 10, 2024, 01:32:07 PM
#11
Interesting, idea for someone who is not into gambling discussion, It is worth exploring, and why not.

I like to post my answer here on the thread about why you created this topic

As a non-gambler I took a quick look at their TOS.  It basically says they can demand any information from you at any time, or withhold your coin, or cancel your account.
They do that because on their terms they are compliant with AMLAC and they don't want their platform to be used as a gateway for money laundering they also have an anti-cheat system to back up their action, their action will defer cheaters and money launderers, its for cheaters and scammers.
If your account is clean you have nothing to worry about unless you're playing in a casino with a bad reputation.

Quote
Is this normal in crypto gambling websites?  It gives all the power to the website with a threat of extortion if you complain. :/
A reputable casino will not do that if they cannot back up their action it will have a chilling effect on other players and they may lose their reputation, a complainant can always challenge that through a third-party arbitration if the casino is reputable they will agree to do that.
We have seen that happen, and there are so many reports like that in the scam section
Vod
legendary
Activity: 3668
Merit: 3010
Licking my boob since 1970
March 10, 2024, 12:48:16 PM
#10
Let's imagine if it will work, the project owner can run a campaign without need to follow the standard. I expect few DTs will tag the manager and every participants with neutral or negative feedback, then you will see people are complaining just because participating a campaign.

DTs wouldn't need to get involved, unless a PO lied about following the list of rights.    Casinos are all competing with each other - it will only take one to see such a certification as an advantage.

Moving to Gambling as suggested.   
hero member
Activity: 490
Merit: 484
March 10, 2024, 05:46:28 AM
#9
It's not gonna work, or it's work but new drama will comes.

I said it's not gonna work because we've seen so many users told the project owners to hire a top campaign manager, pay using top 10 altcoins and escrow the rewards. But until now, 95% of bounties right now are managed either by newbie or the project's team, the reward is their shitcoins and no escrow. It doesn't stop anything.

Let's imagine if it will work, the project owner can run a campaign without need to follow the standard. I expect few DTs will tag the manager and every participants with neutral or negative feedback, then you will see people are complaining just because participating a campaign.
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
March 10, 2024, 05:23:28 AM
#8
but instead something like "The site lists every condition that would enable them to freeze or seize assets as part of the registration and/or deposit process."
I don't think sites will agree to that. There will always be border cases, or cases where there is doubt.

The last time I thoroughly read through a casino's terms, I noticed a lot of things I didn't like:
Quote
8.8 You acknowledge that the Casino shall be the final decision-maker of whether you have violated the Casino’s Terms and Conditions in a manner that results in your suspension or permanent barring from participation in the Website.
If this happens, what happens to the player's balance? I'm asking this because I've seen many topics in the past where casino Terms were very user-unfriendly.

Quote
10. If the Player is suspected of ~ the Company reserves the right to terminate such a Player Account and suspend and/or cancel all payouts to the player. ~ the Player will not be notified or informed about the reasons for such actions.
This seems like one of those rules that will destroy your reputation when applied. When someone is found guilty, sure. But it doesn't seem right to cancel payouts based on a suspicion without even telling the player why.

Quote
10.5 To prevent any fraudulent activities concerning cryptocurrency transactions, we lay down the following rule: in case the transaction is marked as replaceable - Opt-in Replace-by-Fee (RBF), the Casino reserves the right to close such accounts immediately and withhold any wins.
WHY?! RBF is a normal part of a Bitcoin transaction, and the default behaviour of many wallets. It's much, much better if you don't accept unconfirmed transactions, so the user can bump the fee when his deposit takes too long to confirm.
Ultimately, all Bitcoin transactions are replaceable as long as they're unconfirmed.

Quote
11.1 The Website offers Coinspaid as payment method only.
~
11.4 Kindly note that due to the nature of cryptocurrencies, deposit limits cannot be applied to the deposits made through CoinsPaid payment system. If you want to limit your gambling in the casino, please, use any other available option.
In 11.4 you're referring to other options that, according to 11.1, don't exist.

12.9.1 is the same as 12.1, and 12.9.2 is almost the same as 14.4.

I think there are 2 basic problems: companies all over the world create far too many conditions to agree with, which leads to the next problem: most users just click "Accept" without reading it. Cookie warnings alone would fill my day if I wanted to read them all. If users would read the existing Terms, they should not even signup if they don't like them.
legendary
Activity: 1638
Merit: 4508
**In BTC since 2013**
March 10, 2024, 04:15:44 AM
#7
I'm not familiar with these type of sites. But honestly, unless there is a kind of boycott, with the majority of users of these platforms stopping using them, it would be difficult for these sites to accept conditions proposed by players.

What could happen was an association would be created that would certify sites that followed some pre-defined standards, and then it would be up to the user whether or not to use non-certified sites.

But, I ask: doesn't this already exist? I think I've already seen something about it. In the end, it will always be the user who will have to make a decision whether or not to use a certain platform, whether it is certified or not.
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 7892
March 10, 2024, 03:11:43 AM
#6
It's not the worst idea to generate some kind of unified standards that Bitcointalk gamblers should come to expect from any fair & honest casino. Its another thing getting any single casino to implement them to a T, and it will of course require professional discourse from knowledgeable & experienced individuals.

A large portion of the forum now wears sigs for casinos (including yours truly), so for this kind of thing to be a sticky in the Gambling board I think would be a great idea, so long as the list is reasonable, well thought out & well-concensized.
legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 2011
March 10, 2024, 01:29:11 AM
#5
First, it is not clear to me that this belongs to Meta. To me it would be better placed in Gambling Discussion because it is about casinos that are external entities to the forum, not something about how the forum works.

Besides, I don't think that something like this would work at all, because if the casinos have so much clientele and make so much money working as they do now, why would they change? In any case I hardly play in crypto casinos. I have done it from time to time to see how they work but I am not the right person to "champion" this.

legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1552
Bitcoin Casino Est. 2013
March 09, 2024, 11:20:49 PM
#4
Could work but wouldn't this get abused in some way? You know when people get creative and they're given the right to have suggestions, they'll wear their thinking cap on so they can do the things that would either benefit them or exploit the system or just to plain old troll the sites right? Not to mention that even if we carefully check the listed rights, would we be able to persuade sites to follow them? Because it's an informal documentation right? Like those petition websites.
Vod
legendary
Activity: 3668
Merit: 3010
Licking my boob since 1970
March 09, 2024, 04:38:36 PM
#3
we've got a whole list of casinos in here that won't rob you off your coins.

In the post I referenced, it's normal for casinos to hide "catch all" termination clauses that they will enforce when they feel like it.   You've got a list of casinos that has not yet had complaints; don't mean they won't steal your coins if it's a significant amount.

You don't gamble anyways, why are you so concerned?

Why is it so odd to want to improve crypto reputation?  I asked for someone else to lead it.  I'll make a lot of other suggestions if I feel they can improve things - it does not mean I'll take them all on personally.  Smiley
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 1004
Goodnight, ohh Leo!!! 🦅
March 09, 2024, 03:39:17 PM
#2
Based on this post and the two responses, I realized another opportunity to actually contribute to the community, and not just my buddies.  Wink   A group of players should get together to create a list of "rights" they demand, and issue a certification for those casinos that agree to follow them.   Eventually, hopefully, increased success of those sites displaying the certification would lead to others sites following.
...And the keyword is "agree"
First of all, Royce was right with his replies.. it kinda like creates a sense of predominance on your side, and on the casino -- it makes some of their TOS a little bit unnecessary and your request more obligatory.. That's not what an already famed casino would AGREE to. You can make a complaint about not being comfortable with anything way less than presenting some "rights"...as you may have it.
Quote
Obviously, a right cannot be something that harms the site, such as "A player wins if ..." but instead something like "The site lists every condition that would enable them to freeze or seize assets as part of the registration and/or deposit process."  

Such a list of rights would not harm the legit sites in any way.   Who wants to champion this?
I like how you realized that some rights are conditionally unreserved; But the truth is -- Unless anyone tries to pull a stunt with these casinos (atleast the renowned ones), there's no way you're gonna get your funds freezed for no just reason. Sometimes, you could bypass their Ts/Cs without your knowledge and it appears that you're logged out immediately.
The bottom-line is -- making thorough research on any casino that catches your fancy -- we've got a whole list of casinos in here that won't rob you off your coins. REMEMBER, this are only my suggestions.. bring it on if you still wanna try!!
You don't gamble anyways, why are you so concerned? Lol

Sandra 🧑‍🦰
Vod
legendary
Activity: 3668
Merit: 3010
Licking my boob since 1970
March 09, 2024, 01:30:08 PM
#1
Based on this post and the two responses, I realized another opportunity to actually contribute to the community, and not just my buddies.  Wink   A group of players should get together to create a list of "rights" they demand, and issue a certification for those casinos that agree to follow them.   Eventually, hopefully, increased success of those sites displaying the certification would lead to others sites following.

Obviously, a right cannot be something that harms the site, such as "A player wins if ..." but instead something like "The site lists every condition that would enable them to freeze or seize assets as part of the registration and/or deposit process." 

Such a list of rights would not harm the legit sites in any way.   Who wants to champion this?
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