I also received 0.001 BTC from this unknown bitcoin address 1DSu8QqECJFFx9vmTp1MiT3PqHND6LLyTx.
What could the sender's purpose be?
Topic: Created a new address in bitcoin-qt, and it already contains 0,001 BTC ??? (Read 3651 times)
July 15, 2013, 02:26:14 AM
July 13, 2013, 09:50:38 AM
It is extremely rare. But still, not impossible. If you think this number is impossible try the probability of intelligent life on a planet; that my fellow bitcoiners is a number near infitesimal.
You, or we, have no idea of the probability of intelligent life appearing on a planet. All we can empirically quickly estimate is... about 1/10, looking at the solar system
Oh wow, now to aliens.
Here's the problem with calculating intelligent life probabilities. Sure, we can estimate how many stars there are, already been done in this thread. Life has not been found to exist outside of our solar system, period. So, what numbers are you using for your calculations for green or gray guys with huge heads?
It's pretty easy, you just have to take the data you have. Number of planets/number of planets with the right atmosphere, distance to the sun, water etc.... I think NASA had some calculations to that alone. Then you have to factor in the probability of the right aminoacids mixing together in a friendly environment so that evolution can take it's course and the chances that no catastrophic event wipes out all life on it through a few billion years. Most of those propabilities exist somewhere on the net, I am just too lazy to search them out now
You assume that life can only be based on carbon/water/aminoacids. Well, you assume that intelligent life is necessarily something like us, or like what we know, or at the very least like what we can imagine. Same bias also led us to believe in geocentrism and heliocentrism.
my, you assume very much about me. and, I might add, of course I assume that life is based on carbon. on what else? there are only so much elements you can find and until now there are only idle speculations about other forms of life. and what the fuck does that have to do with anything? Even if I would assume there is another form of life, if they find us you have your possibility of finding a fucking double wallet...
July 13, 2013, 07:46:54 AM
It is extremely rare. But still, not impossible. If you think this number is impossible try the probability of intelligent life on a planet; that my fellow bitcoiners is a number near infitesimal.
You, or we, have no idea of the probability of intelligent life appearing on a planet. All we can empirically quickly estimate is... about 1/10, looking at the solar system
Oh wow, now to aliens.
Here's the problem with calculating intelligent life probabilities. Sure, we can estimate how many stars there are, already been done in this thread. Life has not been found to exist outside of our solar system, period. So, what numbers are you using for your calculations for green or gray guys with huge heads?
It's pretty easy, you just have to take the data you have. Number of planets/number of planets with the right atmosphere, distance to the sun, water etc.... I think NASA had some calculations to that alone. Then you have to factor in the probability of the right aminoacids mixing together in a friendly environment so that evolution can take it's course and the chances that no catastrophic event wipes out all life on it through a few billion years. Most of those propabilities exist somewhere on the net, I am just too lazy to search them out now
You assume that life can only be based on carbon/water/aminoacids. Well, you assume that intelligent life is necessarily something like us, or like what we know, or at the very least like what we can imagine. Same bias also led us to believe in geocentrism and heliocentrism.
July 13, 2013, 05:21:26 AM
It is extremely rare. But still, not impossible. If you think this number is impossible try the probability of intelligent life on a planet; that my fellow bitcoiners is a number near infitesimal.
You, or we, have no idea of the probability of intelligent life appearing on a planet. All we can empirically quickly estimate is... about 1/10, looking at the solar system
Oh wow, now to aliens.
Here's the problem with calculating intelligent life probabilities. Sure, we can estimate how many stars there are, already been done in this thread. Life has not been found to exist outside of our solar system, period. So, what numbers are you using for your calculations for green or gray guys with huge heads?
It's pretty easy, you just have to take the data you have. Number of planets/number of planets with the right atmosphere, distance to the sun, water etc.... I think NASA had some calculations to that alone. Then you have to factor in the probability of the right aminoacids mixing together in a friendly environment so that evolution can take it's course and the chances that no catastrophic event wipes out all life on it through a few billion years. Most of those propabilities exist somewhere on the net, I am just too lazy to search them out now
July 12, 2013, 02:26:41 PM
Going to quote another recent thread. Because this is a stupid argument as well. If you can really generate that many addresses, the collision that you'll find, will be with one of your own addresses (which would be empty) And the reward of finding a block is so much higher than the probability of finding a collision and the difference between the two happening is so small that you guys really don't understand how many zeros are on these numbers and what that means.
So, I was thinking about the address generation scheme that is used for Bitcoin. Please note I did not do any math here yet to see if it is likely to happen, it's just a concept.
From what I understand, the keys are 256 bits (10^77) and there are what? 1 billion keys?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthday_paradox
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universally_Unique_Identifier#Random_UUID_probability_of_duplicates
1-e^(-(n^2)/2x)
EDIT:
1-e^(-(1000000000^2)/(2^256)) =
1-e^(-(10^18)/(10^77)) =
1-e^(-1/(10^59)) =
10^(-60)
Current Block Probability: ~ 10^(-16)
So, getting the block is 10^45 times more likely than a single collision. An attacker would have to hope for colliding with wallets containing trillions of times more coins than will ever have been created. But if an attacker can change the value of 'n' to 10^39 (duodecillion attempts) then he'll likely be quite profitable... but then again he'll only be colliding with his own keys.
and for good measure:
This has been discussed so many times already...
And...
There are currently 329,993 addresses in the Bitcoin network. Say that this number of addresses are created every day for the next 140 years. That's 16,862,642,300 addresses.
The chance that at least two of those addresses collided is about 9.7x10-29, using the formula here. Calculation.
The chance that at least two of those addresses collided is about 9.7x10-29, using the formula here. Calculation.
If every person on Earth makes ten addresses per second for 20 years (2x1018 total addresses), then the probability that two of these addresses collide is about 1.57x10-12.
UUIDs have 2128 possible identifiers. They are also designed to be collision-proof. Wikipedia says:
Compare this to Bitcoin's 2160 possible addresses. Bitcoin has:
1461501637330902918203684832716283019655932542976 addresses
UUIDs have:
340282366920938463463374607431768211456 identifiers
Quote
To put these numbers into perspective, one's annual risk of being hit by a meteorite is estimated to be one chance in 17 billion, that means the probability is about 0.00000000006 (6 × 10−11), equivalent to the odds of creating a few tens of trillions of UUIDs in a year and having one duplicate. In other words, only after generating 1 billion UUIDs every second for the next 100 years, the probability of creating just one duplicate would be about 50%. The probability of one duplicate would be about 50% if every person on earth owns 600 million UUIDs.
Compare this to Bitcoin's 2160 possible addresses. Bitcoin has:
1461501637330902918203684832716283019655932542976 addresses
UUIDs have:
340282366920938463463374607431768211456 identifiers
And...
Bitcoin already supports OP_HASH256 in script, so it would be trivial to increase the number of addresses if it ever became a problem.
July 12, 2013, 02:22:49 PM
July 12, 2013, 02:17:22 PM
It is extremely rare. But still, not impossible. If you think this number is impossible try the probability of intelligent life on a planet; that my fellow bitcoiners is a number near infitesimal.
You, or we, have no idea of the probability of intelligent life appearing on a planet. All we can empirically quickly estimate is... about 1/10, looking at the solar system
Oh wow, now to aliens.
Here's the problem with calculating intelligent life probabilities. Sure, we can estimate how many stars there are, already been done in this thread. Life has not been found to exist outside of our solar system, period. So, what numbers are you using for your calculations for green or gray guys with huge heads?
July 12, 2013, 02:04:29 PM
It is extremely rare. But still, not impossible. If you think this number is impossible try the probability of intelligent life on a planet; that my fellow bitcoiners is a number near infitesimal.
You, or we, have no idea of the probability of intelligent life appearing on a planet. All we can empirically quickly estimate is... about 1/10, looking at the solar system
July 12, 2013, 01:56:44 PM
It is extremely rare. But still, not impossible. If you think this number is impossible try the probability of intelligent life on a planet; that my fellow bitcoiners is a number near infitesimal.
July 12, 2013, 01:38:27 PM
Even with trillions of addresses, there would still be no collision. 2^256 is a very big number, almost as all the atoms in the visible universe.
It's a big number but not as big as you said. 2^256 is 0.12% of the atoms in the visible universe:
click
Of course a collision is highly unlikely.
It's just as big as I said. I never said it was bigger than every atom in the observable universe. I was saying stars. Which is already a pretty big number, atoms of course is even bigger.
I wasn't replying to you.
Oops. I'll watch who you're chastising next time. Thought it was me lol
I even quoted the damned conversation and didn't read it. Sorry 
July 12, 2013, 01:37:27 PM
Even with trillions of addresses, there would still be no collision. 2^256 is a very big number, almost as all the atoms in the visible universe.
It's a big number but not as big as you said. 2^256 is 0.12% of the atoms in the visible universe:
click
Of course a collision is highly unlikely.
It's just as big as I said. I never said it was bigger than every atom in the observable universe. I was saying stars. Which is already a pretty big number, atoms of course is even bigger.
I wasn't replying to you.
July 12, 2013, 01:34:00 PM
Even with trillions of addresses, there would still be no collision. 2^256 is a very big number, almost as all the atoms in the visible universe.
It's a big number but not as big as you said. 2^256 is 0.12% of the atoms in the visible universe:
click
Of course a collision is highly unlikely.
It's just as big as I said. I never said it was bigger than every atom in the observable universe. I was saying stars. Which is already a pretty big number, atoms of course is even bigger.
July 12, 2013, 01:28:28 PM
Even with trillions of addresses, there would still be no collision. 2^256 is a very big number, almost as all the atoms in the visible universe.
It's a big number but not as big as you said. 2^256 is 0.12% of the atoms in the visible universe:
click
Of course a collision is highly unlikely.
July 12, 2013, 09:03:39 AM
5. Since most people believe that collision is possible, then after receiving 0.001 random BTC, they will think, that collision happened (even if it didn't actually happen at all).
I don't think that's the case. I know that collision did not happen, because I understand bitcoin enough, so I did not believe this.
If there was someone else in my place, he/she may have very well believed that collision happened, after getting such an answer.
Yeah, the first guy was trolling. That's why you got that response.
a 4 digit combination lock.
you say it will take 9999 attempts to brute force the lock open.. WRONG.
It will take an average of about 5000 tries.you say it will take 9999 attempts to brute force the lock open.. WRONG.
Generating a collision with a specific 160 bit address requires an average of 2159 attempts.
so a 4 digit combination lock.. one guy has 0002
i brute for attack starting at 0001 in increments of 1 digit.... found 2nd attempt.
now imagine there are 9 other people with random 4 digit combinations..
it is not 9999 chances just to get a used number.. its a MAXIMUM of 9999 chances. and a minimum of 1.
there are more then 1 bitcoin address in existence so divide the MAXIMUM possibilities, by the addresses in existance. and you will have a more accurate value of chance to collide..
saying this is not to cause panic. and others trying to fluff over the numbers, hiding the truth wont help either as thats concealing the truth from people. atleast the bitcoin foundation is working on a solution for this, as collisions are a thing to be weary of.
EDIT: it would take that high number of chances everyone talks about to find a SPECIFIC address. but to just randomly collide with a used address is much much much lower
You keep on talking about a tiny 4 digit number lol.
YOU DON'T HAVE A FUCKING CLUE HOW BIG THESE FUCKING NUMBERS ARE.
... really? Now someone took it from a 4 digit number and reduced it to a low 3 digit number lol.
You guys need to seriously, take a college level math class that talks about exponents and... zeros. lol.
Regarding panic: the list of people who know what a collision is AND are incredibly bad at math is very small.
IndeedEnjoy your stupidity franky: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2614500
There are so many ways to try and explain this but the people that won't believe it, are probably not mentally capable of figuring out why.
July 12, 2013, 02:34:57 AM
Regarding panic: the list of people who know what a collision is AND are incredibly bad at math is very small.
IndeedEnjoy your stupidity franky: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2614500
July 12, 2013, 12:27:53 AM
I also received 0.001 to one of my addresses from 1DSu8QqECJFFx9vmTp1MiT3PqHND6LLyTx.
I think it is dirty money and sender want to taint coins as much as possible.
I think it is dirty money and sender want to taint coins as much as possible.
July 11, 2013, 07:24:02 PM
Regarding panic: the list of people who know what a collision is AND are incredibly bad at math is very small.
Other similarly plausible alternatives include (but are not limited to):
Other similarly plausible alternatives include (but are not limited to):
- OP's computer got hacked, and the hacker sent them the coins either accidentally or for the lulz.
- Santa Claus was watching and sent him his present early.
- He is dreaming that he won 8 BTC, and none of us really exist.
July 11, 2013, 06:04:40 PM
so a 4 digit combination lock.. one guy has 0002
i brute for attack starting at 0001 in increments of 1 digit.... found 2nd attempt.
now imagine there are 9 other people with random 4 digit combinations..
it is not 9999 chances just to get a used number.. its a MAXIMUM of 9999 chances. and a minimum of 1.
there are more then 1 bitcoin address in existence so divide the MAXIMUM possibilities, by the addresses in existance. and you will have a more accurate value of chance to collide..
saying this is not to cause panic. and others trying to fluff over the numbers, hiding the truth wont help either as thats concealing the truth from people. atleast the bitcoin foundation is working on a solution for this, as collisions are a thing to be weary of.
EDIT: it would take that high number of chances everyone talks about to find a SPECIFIC address. but to just randomly collide with a used address is much much much lower
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthday_attack#Mathematics i brute for attack starting at 0001 in increments of 1 digit.... found 2nd attempt.
now imagine there are 9 other people with random 4 digit combinations..
it is not 9999 chances just to get a used number.. its a MAXIMUM of 9999 chances. and a minimum of 1.
there are more then 1 bitcoin address in existence so divide the MAXIMUM possibilities, by the addresses in existance. and you will have a more accurate value of chance to collide..
saying this is not to cause panic. and others trying to fluff over the numbers, hiding the truth wont help either as thats concealing the truth from people. atleast the bitcoin foundation is working on a solution for this, as collisions are a thing to be weary of.
EDIT: it would take that high number of chances everyone talks about to find a SPECIFIC address. but to just randomly collide with a used address is much much much lower
July 11, 2013, 05:50:02 PM
Unlikely doesn't mean impossible. It can happen, but odds are it won't. It's like flipping a coin and having it rest on it's edge, but even less likely; the odds are so low that you can say it is "impossible" and only the more pedantic will correct you.
It's more like a possibility of flipping a coin, and having it freeze in mid air. Or the possibility of all oxygen molecules around you bouncing away from you at the same time, and you suffocating. It CAN happen, but for any practical purposes it is impossible. July 11, 2013, 05:44:32 PM
Additionally, forget about people spending money to "spread fear that a collision can occur". Only very few people would react in the same naive or paranoid way as you do, don't generalize.
My guess is you played satoshidice or something similar. It happens that the payout takes several days.
I came here, asked what happened, and the first answer was "collision happened".My guess is you played satoshidice or something similar. It happens that the payout takes several days.
I did not believe this answer, but is it really so naive or paranoid to believe, that most people would trust the answer, if it was given to them?
Besides, did you even read my post? What satoshidice has to do with anything, if I explained, that this address was never purposefully used? Why would satoshidice send BTC to random addresses? And no, I never played satoshidice or any gambling games, on any of my addresses (but even if I did, your "guess" would still be irrelevant).
p.s. offtopic - autocorrect suggestion for "satoshidice" - "dictatorship"
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