It's always the client that has the last word about security and reliability of a coin.
So there's nothing special about Stablecoin in here, is it?!
Topic: CRITICAL INFO to MINER/INVESTOR of STABLECOIN, 1.25 M premined still spendable!! (Read 3926 times)
December 06, 2013, 07:07:46 PM
December 06, 2013, 03:00:55 PM
If wallet is updated for processing block genesis coinbase tx, they would be spendable
Hi eaglyEye,
thank you for reviewing the source of Stablecoin wallet. As an investor in that coin I appreciate this very much!
However, at the current state of the wallet the premined coins are worthless as they can't be spend. They are explicitly noticed within the code, just to make them worthless.
So said, nobody owns premined coins which could influence the market in any way. Just like all other other non premined coins, too.
Wallets of every coin can be programmed in a way that gives the developers an advantage over others. Just imagine...developers could also implement a keylogger or trojan!
That's why the clients are OpenSource so that everyone can inspect it.
From this perspective: thanks for reviewing the code as it opened space to discuss this very important topic and made Stablecoin even more secure as more people do understand now how the premined coins were "destroyed".
Hope you review also the developers statement and the arguments made above, to see that Stablecoin is still a reliable and trustworthy coin.
Thank you!
haggis
Hi haggtos.
It is not "exactly" you mark like "spendable" or "unspendable"a tx. Simply there is a "margin" of maniovre for processing the genesis block, so 1.25 Millons premined could be spent still by creator.
Quote
This is how the Bitcoin client worked when Satoshi created it: The client maintains a block database and a transaction database. When it finds that its block database is empty, it inserts the genesis block into its block database to get things started. This block includes a transaction sending 50 BTC to 1A1z..., but the client does not insert this transaction into its transaction database. So even though this transaction is part of the block chain, if the client sees a transaction spending this 50 BTC, it won't be able to find the 50 BTC transaction in its transaction database, and the spending transaction will be rejected. In other words, the genesis block's transaction isn't considered to be a "real transaction" by the original Bitcoin client.
(Current versions of Bitcoin-Qt handle the block/transaction databases in a totally different way, so the genesis block's transaction is now just a weird special case in the code.)
This could easily have been an oversight, or Satoshi could have intended this transaction to be unspendable. This quirk wasn't discovered until after Satoshi disappeared, so no one had a chance to ask him.
(Current versions of Bitcoin-Qt handle the block/transaction databases in a totally different way, so the genesis block's transaction is now just a weird special case in the code.)
This could easily have been an oversight, or Satoshi could have intended this transaction to be unspendable. This quirk wasn't discovered until after Satoshi disappeared, so no one had a chance to ask him.
So, it is clear a client implementation for genesis block processing has got the last word about the 12.5 Millions premined coins spending.
December 06, 2013, 02:31:23 PM
If wallet is updated for processing block genesis coinbase tx, they would be spendable
Hi eaglyEye,
thank you for reviewing the source of Stablecoin wallet. As an investor in that coin I appreciate this very much!
However, at the current state of the wallet the premined coins are worthless as they can't be spend. They are explicitly noticed within the code, just to make them worthless.
So said, nobody owns premined coins which could influence the market in any way. Just like all other other non premined coins, too.
Wallets of every coin can be programmed in a way that gives the developers an advantage over others. Just imagine...developers could also implement a keylogger or trojan!
That's why the clients are OpenSource so that everyone can inspect it.
From this perspective: thanks for reviewing the code as it opened space to discuss this very important topic and made Stablecoin even more secure as more people do understand now how the premined coins were "destroyed".
Hope you review also the developers statement and the arguments made above, to see that Stablecoin is still a reliable and trustworthy coin.
Thank you!
haggis
December 06, 2013, 02:20:40 PM
The OP freaking out that the coins are still in the genesis block is doing nothing but trying to spread fear. The developer even said in the release notes that the coins were still there, but that code was taken from the unspendable bitcoin genesis block to make stablecoin genesis similarly unspendable.
You aren't fooling anyone OP. Here's a quote from the developer himself on this manner from a few days ago:
You aren't fooling anyone OP. Here's a quote from the developer himself on this manner from a few days ago:
Hi.
so how exactly was the premine destroyed. if blockexplorer can see them, they are not rmoved from the code. it would be impossible in my mind, because of all the blockchain is hashed using this tx'es . the where also not sent to impossible address like "sTHEPREMINEDESTROYERADDRESS4Ph48Nk2". if I understand ,they are not destroyed, but locked-down right?
Destroyed was chosen because it's a dramatic and exciting word. To be more accurate, the coins were removed from circulation. They can not be spent.so how exactly was the premine destroyed. if blockexplorer can see them, they are not rmoved from the code. it would be impossible in my mind, because of all the blockchain is hashed using this tx'es . the where also not sent to impossible address like "sTHEPREMINEDESTROYERADDRESS4Ph48Nk2". if I understand ,they are not destroyed, but locked-down right?
if you debug your wallet, reloading the blockchain, with debug, debugnet, logtimestamps options you get this, but I suppose it is easier living in ignorance ..
debug.log
Quote
12/06/13 15:14:39 StableCoin version v1.3.0.0-g3aaa7ba-beta ($Format:%cD)
12/06/13 15:14:39 Startup time: 12/06/13 15:14:39
12/06/13 15:14:39 Default data directory C:\Users\eagleEye\AppData\Roaming\StableCoin
12/06/13 15:14:39 Used data directory C:\Users\eagleEye\AppData\Roaming\StableCoin
12/06/13 15:14:39 Bound to [::]:17500
12/06/13 15:14:39 Bound to 0.0.0.0:17500
12/06/13 15:14:39 Loading block index...
12/06/13 15:14:39 dbenv.open LogDir=C:\Users\eagleEye\AppData\Roaming\StableCoin\database ErrorFile=C:\Users\eagleEye\AppData\Roaming\StableCoin\db.log
12/06/13 15:14:39 0a59605118489aa9cde58e64210d3d56e246758fbabcd1482e54bf4032545221
12/06/13 15:14:39 0a59605118489aa9cde58e64210d3d56e246758fbabcd1482e54bf4032545221
12/06/13 15:14:39 22fafe4f684eed751b2ffea656b0ca28a0ad34c6b584872a96350e09f681f49a
12/06/13 15:14:39 CBlock(hash=0a59605118489aa9cde5, PoW=000003cea8ce31c19c25, ver=1, hashPrevBlock=00000000000000000000, hashMerkleRoot=22fafe4f68, nTime=1370579804, nBits=1e0fffff, nNonce=2788, vtx=1)
12/06/13 15:14:39 CTransaction(hash=22fafe4f68, ver=1, vin.size=1, vout.size=1, nLockTime=0)
CTxIn(COutPoint(0000000000, -1), coinbase 04ffff001d0104484a756e65203720323031332c205468652054696d65732c205072696e6365205 068696c69702061646d697474656420746f20686f73706974616c20666f722074776f207765656b 73)
CTxOut(nValue=1250000.00000000, scriptPubKey=0449d77b9b62e0db1fd6150ecfc572)
vMerkleTree: 22fafe4f68
12/06/13 15:14:39 SetBestChain: new best=0a59605118489aa9cde5 height=0 work=1048577 date=06/07/13 04:36:44
12/06/13 15:14:39 block index 50ms
12/06/13 15:14:39 Loading wallet...
12/06/13 15:14:39 nFileVersion = 1030000
12/06/13 15:14:39 wallet 108ms
12/06/13 15:14:39 Loading addresses...
12/06/13 15:14:39 Startup time: 12/06/13 15:14:39
12/06/13 15:14:39 Default data directory C:\Users\eagleEye\AppData\Roaming\StableCoin
12/06/13 15:14:39 Used data directory C:\Users\eagleEye\AppData\Roaming\StableCoin
12/06/13 15:14:39 Bound to [::]:17500
12/06/13 15:14:39 Bound to 0.0.0.0:17500
12/06/13 15:14:39 Loading block index...
12/06/13 15:14:39 dbenv.open LogDir=C:\Users\eagleEye\AppData\Roaming\StableCoin\database ErrorFile=C:\Users\eagleEye\AppData\Roaming\StableCoin\db.log
12/06/13 15:14:39 0a59605118489aa9cde58e64210d3d56e246758fbabcd1482e54bf4032545221
12/06/13 15:14:39 0a59605118489aa9cde58e64210d3d56e246758fbabcd1482e54bf4032545221
12/06/13 15:14:39 22fafe4f684eed751b2ffea656b0ca28a0ad34c6b584872a96350e09f681f49a
12/06/13 15:14:39 CBlock(hash=0a59605118489aa9cde5, PoW=000003cea8ce31c19c25, ver=1, hashPrevBlock=00000000000000000000, hashMerkleRoot=22fafe4f68, nTime=1370579804, nBits=1e0fffff, nNonce=2788, vtx=1)
12/06/13 15:14:39 CTransaction(hash=22fafe4f68, ver=1, vin.size=1, vout.size=1, nLockTime=0)
CTxIn(COutPoint(0000000000, -1), coinbase 04ffff001d0104484a756e65203720323031332c205468652054696d65732c205072696e6365205 068696c69702061646d697474656420746f20686f73706974616c20666f722074776f207765656b 73)
CTxOut(nValue=1250000.00000000, scriptPubKey=0449d77b9b62e0db1fd6150ecfc572)
vMerkleTree: 22fafe4f68
12/06/13 15:14:39 SetBestChain: new best=0a59605118489aa9cde5 height=0 work=1048577 date=06/07/13 04:36:44
12/06/13 15:14:39 block index 50ms
12/06/13 15:14:39 Loading wallet...
12/06/13 15:14:39 nFileVersion = 1030000
12/06/13 15:14:39 wallet 108ms
12/06/13 15:14:39 Loading addresses...
December 06, 2013, 02:16:08 PM
Any coin can be hardforked to add extra coins. What is your point? How many times do I have to tell you this?
You can barely string together an english sentence, let alone understand the technicalities of bitcoin code.
You can barely string together an english sentence, let alone understand the technicalities of bitcoin code.
But not for doing spendable a illegally premined bounty of 1.25 Millons ... it sounds like a hard-forking done for a pirate-dev, not a honest one, pestilent ignorant!
December 06, 2013, 02:07:26 PM
Any coin can be hardforked to add extra coins. What is your point? How many times do I have to tell you this?
You can barely string together an english sentence, let alone understand the technicalities of bitcoin code.
You can barely string together an english sentence, let alone understand the technicalities of bitcoin code.
December 06, 2013, 02:06:13 PM
For this reason, if creator unenabled the spendability of premine, it is possible creator enables it again !!!! It is a situation of uncertainty for investors, beacuse a supllanter could to substract the premined bounty !!!
It seems you don't understand where these coins came from and neither how the stablecoin or any coin for that matter works.
Rly? I understand enough to notice dev owns 1.25 millions premined and can hardforking by update somewhere he think it is the moment for spending the 1.25 Millions ...
What I dont undesrtand is how can be so much "candid" people ...
December 06, 2013, 01:57:49 PM
The OP freaking out that the coins are still in the genesis block is doing nothing but trying to spread fear. The developer even said in the release notes that the coins were still there, but that code was taken from the unspendable bitcoin genesis block to make stablecoin genesis similarly unspendable.
You aren't fooling anyone OP. Here's a quote from the developer himself on this manner from a few days ago:
You aren't fooling anyone OP. Here's a quote from the developer himself on this manner from a few days ago:
Hi.
so how exactly was the premine destroyed. if blockexplorer can see them, they are not rmoved from the code. it would be impossible in my mind, because of all the blockchain is hashed using this tx'es . the where also not sent to impossible address like "sTHEPREMINEDESTROYERADDRESS4Ph48Nk2". if I understand ,they are not destroyed, but locked-down right?
Destroyed was chosen because it's a dramatic and exciting word. To be more accurate, the coins were removed from circulation. They can not be spent.so how exactly was the premine destroyed. if blockexplorer can see them, they are not rmoved from the code. it would be impossible in my mind, because of all the blockchain is hashed using this tx'es . the where also not sent to impossible address like "sTHEPREMINEDESTROYERADDRESS4Ph48Nk2". if I understand ,they are not destroyed, but locked-down right?
December 06, 2013, 01:48:44 PM
For this reason, if creator unenabled the spendability of premine, it is possible creator enables it again !!!! It is a situation of uncertainty for investors, beacuse a supllanter could to substract the premined bounty !!!
It seems you don't understand where these coins came from and neither how the stablecoin or any coin for that matter works.
December 06, 2013, 01:42:06 PM
The technical ignorance on this forum is astounding.
Tell you what, if you're so scared of the premine being spendable, I've set up a giant buy wall at .00000444 on cryptsy. Please, dump into me. I'll take all the coins off your hands.
Tell you what, if you're so scared of the premine being spendable, I've set up a giant buy wall at .00000444 on cryptsy. Please, dump into me. I'll take all the coins off your hands.
Are you idiot? Just creator or someone malicious supplanter could spend such 1.25 millions of premined coins.
For this reason, if creator unenabled the spendability of premine, it is possible creator enables it again !!!! It is a situation of uncertainty for investors, beacuse a supllanter could to substract the premined bounty !!!
December 06, 2013, 01:22:32 PM
The technical ignorance on this forum is astounding.
Tell you what, if you're so scared of the premine being spendable, I've set up a giant buy wall at .00000444 on cryptsy. Please, dump into me. I'll take all the coins off your hands.
Tell you what, if you're so scared of the premine being spendable, I've set up a giant buy wall at .00000444 on cryptsy. Please, dump into me. I'll take all the coins off your hands.
December 06, 2013, 01:20:02 PM
The only true way to destroy the coins would be to destroy the wallet it's in forever with zero copies, documented in a Youtube video for proof.
That's not how bitcoin works.If they were unspendable in the first place, again there would be no issue doing that.
But if the code were to be changed again in a future update, then the so-called 'unspendable' genesis block coins have now suddenly become spendable again.
If there really was absolutely no issue with the coins being unspendable or not, then they should be easily dumped somewhere, either by enabling the coins to be spent again and sending it to a non-existing address (a much longer address code randomly typed in by keyboard) or by simply deleting the wallet it's in, without any copy of the private key. Again it should be done in a Youtube video so all can see.
December 06, 2013, 01:16:34 PM
They're not spendable. You're an uninformed idiot. I say this as someone who is intimately familiar with the bitcoin protocol.
Take your FUD elsewhere.
Take your FUD elsewhere.
If wallet is updated for processing block genesis coinbase tx, they would be spendable. This is said above, dork.
Please, note to artos this bug. PREMINED 1.25 Billions could be SPENDEABLE !!!!
Start off by learning the difference between million and billion.
buddy, you are doing an clear ad-hominem .. Why?
First, artos creator claimed 1.25 millions premined coins were destroyed. Debuging wallet and inspection of code yield 12.5 Millons of premined coins are processed and validated into genesis block.
That is the question.: why was it was said that premine was detroyed when 1.25 milions of coins are waiting for someone?
I just want to warn to investor; is not a good thing to have 1.25 millions premined spendables ...
December 06, 2013, 01:15:14 PM
His statement still stands true though, if the code were to be changed again, then the 1.25 million coins would become just as easily spendable as it was before.
The fact that the coins are there is totally irrelevant. I could make a client for any coin that would give me a billion coins to spend. It's as simple as inserting a rogue transaction into the transaction database, and having everybody accept this as the new client. The type of attack this clown is worried about is possible irregardless of the genesis block.The only true way to destroy the coins would be to destroy the wallet it's in forever with zero copies, documented in a Youtube video for proof.
That's not how bitcoin works. December 06, 2013, 01:13:16 PM
They're not spendable. You're an uninformed idiot. I say this as someone who is intimately familiar with the bitcoin protocol.
Take your FUD elsewhere.
Take your FUD elsewhere.
If wallet is updated for processing block genesis coinbase tx, they would be spendable. This is said above, dork.
Please, note to artos this bug. PREMINED 1.25 Billions could be SPENDEABLE !!!!
Start off by learning the difference between million and billion.
His statement still stands true though, if the code were to be changed again, then the 1.25 million coins would become just as easily spendable as it was before.
The only true way to destroy the coins would be to destroy the wallet it's in forever with zero copies, documented in a Youtube video for proof. If it were not spendable anyway then there should be no problem doing that.
December 06, 2013, 01:06:51 PM
They're not spendable. You're an uninformed idiot. I say this as someone who is intimately familiar with the bitcoin protocol.
Take your FUD elsewhere.
Take your FUD elsewhere.
If wallet is updated for processing block genesis coinbase tx, they would be spendable. This is said above, dork.
Please, note to artos this bug. PREMINED 1.25 Billions could be SPENDEABLE !!!!
Start off by learning the difference between million and billion.
December 06, 2013, 01:06:35 PM
You're wrong, go away random FUD spreader.
1.25 Millions are in genesis block, you can take a look at source or debug the code by yourself. The problem is that someone can exploit an spend this 1.25 billions premined. It would be castrofic for investors.
December 06, 2013, 01:04:07 PM
They're not spendable. You're an uninformed idiot. I say this as someone who is intimately familiar with the bitcoin protocol.
Take your FUD elsewhere.
Take your FUD elsewhere.
If wallet is updated for processing block genesis coinbase tx, they would be spendable. This is said above, dork.
Please, note to artos this bug. PREMINED 1.25 Billions could be SPENDEABLE !!!!
December 06, 2013, 12:55:25 PM
You're wrong, go away random FUD spreader.
December 06, 2013, 12:52:09 PM
They're not spendable. You're an uninformed idiot. I say this as someone who is intimately familiar with the bitcoin protocol.
Take your FUD elsewhere.
Take your FUD elsewhere.
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