Cryptocurrency Adoption: A Breakthrough? - page 2.

deisik

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Quote from: bitgolden on October 11, 2020, 09:29:28 AM

Fiat losing its value for sure but it is not crumbling just yet. When you ask yourself what you could have bought for 1000 dollars 25 years ago and what you can buy today with 1000 dollars today you are giving yourself answer of one of the questions, which is not bad

We don't actually need any fiat to crumble or implode entirely

It wouldn't be good for crypto if the entire global financial system collapsed. For cryptocurrency adoption as a means of payment, all we need is fiat depreciating so strong that it would make crypto a viable payment option (through fiat as a gateway), as well as actual devices to conduct such payments (like the Binance card)

Massive inflation would then force people to look for storing their wealth in something other than fiat (this is a good idea anyway). Couple that with a smooth and frictionless ability to spend the alternative store of value, and you will see the impact that the Binance effort could have under these circumstances (if it takes off for real)

carter34

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Quote from: Poker Player on October 10, 2020, 02:04:30 AM

Apart form that, I agree with what others have said. Fiat is not dead.

Cash is still king.

I believe fiat is going nowhere even with bitcoin around. There are many advantages to the use of fiat. I don't think it will totally give way for bitcoin, they can keep playing their roles but not that fiat can't stand the pressure.

fiulpro

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See what I see is :

If I use my bitcoins for everyday payment and such then we won't be able to hold it for long term or even trade , as for me the cryptocurrencies like Bitcoins are most important as a store of value as other things perse.

At the same time things like fruits and vegetables , I prefer taking from the small farmers which actually does 2 things :
-If get non GMO products of better quality
-I am supporting their small work
Therefore I do believe that , I cannot expect them to use cryptocurrencies or even have visa debit cards. Therefore most likely I would encash my bitcoins when the price is right and then use.

BUT

If someone is buying things internationally , across the border I believe it would be extremely helpful since you won't have to pay much fee.

At the same time if my university started accepting payment in BTC then I would literally save like 100$ per semester. It's not good paying with international cards and even in cash... But BTC would be an amazing option .

MCobian

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Hopefully the cryptocurrency adoption that is happening now is not just temporary, and can continue until Bitcoin can be accepted
in all countries in the world. Based on the results of my investigation regarding cryptocurrency adoption that is currently happening,
because the effects of the pandemic have made people seek income from cryptocurrencies and also because other assets such as stocks
have decreased. So a lot of people started moving their wealth into cryptocurrency.

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Cryptocurrency adaption would be considered as a breakthrough if it was just recently happening, but we all know it does not been just like very recent for cryptocurrency adaption is already happening even before. It is just that there might be a sudden boost on the adaption rate due to the current pandemic situation. Maybe a breakthrough for those countries considering crypto adaption as an alternative way to save up their assets since the stock market have been directly hit by the negative impact of the pandemic.

Quote from: Lorence.xD on October 08, 2020, 04:16:14 AM

Quote from: Xembin on October 08, 2020, 03:52:24 AM

Many countries are now cryptocurrency adoption which is very good for the citizens consumption. During the pandemic many currencies lose value but cryptocurrencies still maintain stable and valued in the exchange in the market areas.
I think this will be a breakthrough to some country that have never adopt cryptocurrency in their country. Cryptocurrency adoption is a good one which it can help the country to find solution to all the challenges the lockdown has caused in their economy.

Fiat depreciation does not speed up adoption, it does not matter if there is a cryptocurrency adoption if the services you can access is very limited, businesses will have a hard time doing a 180° because most of their models are not suited to crypto payments, especially small businesses, it is not like system integration comes at a cheap price. For a true adoption to happen, the whole country should be flipped upside down because some parts will not survive if only a few adapts or vice versa.

Certainly agreeable. There is still no sense for cryptocurrency adaption to be appreciated if there is just a limited services available to support the usage of cryptocurrencies you have adapted with. Added by the fact that government stand towards crypto is also a factor affecting adaption to be done.

deisik

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It seems that my theory may in fact quite accurately predict the direction we are moving along. If you wonder what theory I'm talking about, here's the relevant part:

Quote from: deisik on October 07, 2020, 03:21:52 PM

It is unlikely that people would spend their precious bitcoins, but the packmaster is not the only member of the pack that Binance handles. Cryptos like Litecoin or Bitcoin Cash can easily become currencies of choice to use with Binance debit cards

The recent dynamic of both Litecoin and Bitcoin Cash shows that this use of crypto may be picking up indeed. We can't yet say that for certain, but if things continue to develop along this vector, there will be a clearer and more convincing evidence of the change toward using select cryptos as a means of payment

I called this development a paradigm shift

henmark

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As for the Binance card, if they are going to do things as you have said here, by making the card to be cheap, then it’s sure going to be a winner. If it’s not going to be like that, then it’s probably going to be ending up like other cards there are like BitPay, and the rest of them.

Although I would say that they are usable in terms daily shopping routine, because they are issued by MasterCard and Visa, so where ever these two cards can be accepted you can always make use of the cryptocurrency cards. Even ATM, if the ATM has the logos on it, you can make use of those cards for withdrawal.

worldofcoins

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With time, many countries are adopting bitcoin and make it legal to use.
It positively impacts the market and the flow of bitcoin's price increases with the adoption of cryptocurrencies.
Bitcoin is just like a GOLD or a property but contains high power of decreasing rate.

deisik

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Quote from: stompix on October 13, 2020, 04:48:34 PM

And speaking of cards how will that work, you're going to entrust all your cryptos back to the government, under the disguise of card, web wallets, and other?

Are you sure you actually want to tell me how bad a crypto payment card is?

If you are using Binance, you are already entrusting them with your cryptos. Moreover, if their card stops working due to Visa pushing a button, the damage would still be limited to the card only, not your coins on the exchange itself. Further, no one prevents you from continuing to use your personal wallet topping up your account as required. It looks more like you have a grudge against either Binance or payment cards in general, or both, or whatever

stompix

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Quote from: deisik on October 13, 2020, 01:44:13 PM

So does that make it a good store of value, according to you? Or would you be better off by simply holding Bitcoin all that time?

Not at all and that wasn't my point, I simply stated that there will be no collapse of the entire fiat system in the next decade at least.
Let's say it's a lot like the leaning tower of Pisa, it is safe to live there? No! will it collapse? Probably not as the government is putting a lot of effort into keeping it straight up. Same with fiat, look at Zimbabwe, the bills are still there and are still used more than cryptos, same for the Bolivar, there is no way 100 million people will switch using cryptos in a few years , there is no way to teach them , there is no real possibility without the help of centralized platform for them to actually use cryptos daily as I don't think you're imagining 60yo old grandmas mastering the LN.

And speaking of cards how will that work, you're going to entrust all your cryptos back to the government, under the disguise of card, web wallets, and other?
What would prevent the government from running the same scheme, printing numbers in your accounts again?

Nope, come back to earth and stop dreaming.

beerlover

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Unfortunately people will never accept something is wrong just because someone else said it was wrong, even if WHO comes out and says that cash doesn't transmit coronavirus, people will still ignore it. This provides us with two approach that you yourself can make a decision based on that.

One is the people who will blindly defend that crypto is better in these times because cash is infected (wrong) and that is why they think crypto will go up, and if you want to believe those people you could buy bitcoin a lot and hold it because the price should go up, second type is the same people who are doing the same thing but you could also consider that these people being wrong could also lead bitcoin going purely on misinformation, so you could actually decide if you want to bet on misinformation having any power or not.

deisik

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Quote from: stompix on October 13, 2020, 09:52:14 AM

Quote from: deisik on October 09, 2020, 10:11:34 PM

Do you know what was special about the 2014 crash? It felt totally out of the blue and because of that was particularly eerie. The 1998 crash was instant, and it had immediate causes. The crash of 2014 was caused by sanctions imposed and a few other factors. But it had taken a few months before that crash commenced. That's why I tell people to buckle up now

And do you know what's not special about this crash?
That everything was crashing all over, the ruble didn't die when the USSR went down, it didn't in all other occasions mentioned, and it won't know when almost all currencies that are tied to some specific types of exports or financial transactions or tourism are in trouble, and Russia is simply bleeding money with the oil prices, nothing new.
No, there won't be any crash nor will be adoption as quickly as you assume

Okay, the ruble lost 99.9999% of its value since the Soviet times (if we allow for a few denominations along the way), and it didn't die. So does that make it a good store of value, according to you? Or would you be better off by simply holding Bitcoin all that time? Kidding aside, there were several currency reforms since the collapse of the Soviet Union, with some money confiscated in the process. So, in technical terms, the ruble of 1991 is not the same as the ruble of 2020 (and that of 1914, while we are at it). They only share the name. In more mundane terms, it means the ruble has already died a couple times in the very least (and then restarted as a new currency, see Weimar Republic and their gold reichsmark)

Quote from: stompix on October 13, 2020, 09:52:14 AM

So again, how could a payment method that runs on Visa and Mastercard survive from a legislative attack coming from a government that wants to prevent usage of cryptos in its jurisdiction?

It can't survive. But that doesn't mean a crypto payment card can't be a good means of payment when it doesn't have to. In simple terms, you miss the point. Regardless, any cashless payments can be downed as easily, crypto or otherwise. Whole countries can be switched off from fiat payment channels at the press of a button (see Iran)

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Quote from: deisik on October 09, 2020, 10:11:34 PM

Do you know what was special about the 2014 crash? It felt totally out of the blue and because of that was particularly eerie. The 1998 crash was instant, and it had immediate causes. The crash of 2014 was caused by sanctions imposed and a few other factors. But it had taken a few months before that crash commenced. That's why I tell people to buckle up now

And do you know what's not special about this crash?
That everything was crashing all over, the ruble didn't die when the USSR went down, it didn't in all other occasions mentioned, and it won't know when almost all currencies that are tied to some specific types of exports or financial transactions or tourism are in trouble, and Russia is simply bleeding money with the oil prices, nothing new.
No, there won't be any crash nor will be adoption as quickly as you assume.

Quote from: deisik on October 09, 2020, 10:11:34 PM

Quote from: stompix on October 09, 2020, 01:02:58 PM

Quote

To conclude, we must be aware that once things get serious and governments see that their monetary supremacy is being threatened, that they can no longer play their favorite game of inflation tax, they will leave no stone unturned to prevent mass use of crypto as an alternative means of payment. And cryptocurrency payment cards are hands down one of the best tools available for this use on a down-to-earth level, groceries and whatnot

You realize that all bitcoin cards are running on Visa and Mastercard's infrastructure, one push of a button and all are rendered useless, remember WaveCrest?

And? Does it take anything from cryptocurrency payment cards potentially being as handy and convenient as fiat ones, aside from being the exact reason why they were outlawed in the end?

Funny how you quoted both your previous reply with the words I bolded and my response but now you're somehow missing exactly my point.
So again, how could a payment method that runs on Visa and Mastercard survive from a legislative attack coming from a government that wants to prevent usage of cryptos in its jurisdiction?
If they are the best tools for spending crypto they are also the easiest to close down making the whole so-called adoption in spite of a hostile government a pure fantasy.

Look how easy it is, one touch of a button and :
Visa, MasterCard stop supporting bank cards in Crimea
poof!

worldofcoins

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Quote from: Poker Player on October 10, 2020, 06:53:54 AM

Quote from: AniviaBtc on October 10, 2020, 04:32:09 AM

They are saying that fiat currency are becoming useless because it is much risky to use it due to the Covid-19 virus that can be spread through cash transactions.

You're not making any sense. To begin with, cash can also be spent using debit cards. Also, the UN also came out to deny that the use of banknotes was transmitting the coronavirus: World Health Organization: ‘We did NOT say that cash was transmitting coronavirus’

So, your argument doesn't hold.

Many countries accept bitcoin and work on adopting cryptocurrencies, which are great signs for the growth of crypto.
When the Covid-19 occurs, many currencies start falling, especially in my country, USD fall like never before.
Many bitcoin clients sold their coin during a pandemic, but the value of bitcoin remains the same.
I think bitcoin adoption will be a good choice for every government. It can help citizens and solve almost all problems that occur during the lockdown.

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Quote from: jaysabi on October 09, 2020, 05:48:07 PM

It's just taken as a given that fiat is falling apart or on the verge of collapse. Ultimately in the future, those saying such things may be right but are by no means guaranteed to be right like they all claim to be. And I would argue are not likely to be right. In any event, there is no consensus that the USD is falling apart. Inside the echo chamber of the bitcoin community, it's heresy not to drink that particular koolaid, but the evidence to support the conclusion is scant. If the current 2% inflation rate is the evidence, then you should probably look at how high the inflation rate has gotten before for the USD without collapsing.

Fiat losing its value for sure but it is not crumbling just yet. When you ask yourself what you could have bought for 1000 dollars 25 years ago and what you can buy today with 1000 dollars today you are giving yourself answer of one of the questions, which is not bad.

Also ask yourself how much a newly starting college graduate made 25 years ago, usually minimum salary and how long they had to work to make 1000 dollar income from their job, and compare that to today and how long they would have to work. So as you can see the income didn't get quicker, you make the same amount of money almost at the same amount of time, yet when it comes to spending there is inflation.

If everything got more expensive because of inflation but your income did as well it would be fine, but that didn't work out that way at all.

Poker Player

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Quote from: AniviaBtc on October 10, 2020, 04:32:09 AM

They are saying that fiat currency are becoming useless because it is much risky to use it due to the Covid-19 virus that can be spread through cash transactions.

You're not making any sense. To begin with, cash can also be spent using debit cards. Also, the UN also came out to deny that the use of banknotes was transmitting the coronavirus: World Health Organization: ‘We did NOT say that cash was transmitting coronavirus’

So, your argument doesn't hold.

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Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on October 07, 2020, 06:58:59 PM

You can call me a moron, blind, whatever you like--but I have to ask you: what evidence can you point me to that fiat currency is falling apart? In certain countries like Venezuela and Zimbabwe where they've had hyperinflation, I'd certainly agree. But the rest of the world? I just don't see any sort of general currency crisis emerging from the COVID-19 pandemic.

And yes, I'm aware of all the money printing and debt accumulation, but I don't see any evidence in my day-to-day life that things are as dire as some people think.

They are saying that fiat currency are becoming useless because it is much risky to use it due to the Covid-19 virus that can be spread through cash transactions. Inflation is really not impossible when we are experiencing pandemic because that will probably increase unemployment in any part of the world that are affected. But thinking of the possibilities, cash is really much risky to use in transactions and cryptocurrency adoption should grow more and more in any part of the world depending on how effective the government and the community in implementing it in businesses. Some countries are still comfortable in using fiat currency that cryptocurrency.

bits4books

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Crypto is not a religion but i like it

This is of course very good, beautiful and just wonderful - but no matter how much I love the cryptocurrency itself, I can notice its most important minus (if we consider tokens as an everyday means of payment).
The simplest and most hypertrophied example: in the morning you left the house with N coins on your beautiful crypto card, which is enough for lunch in a restaurant, a taxi train, a massage session, and a plane ticket, because tomorrow you are on vacation - and even for the entire vacation will remain. But there always may be strong dump with -20%/24hours

As long as there is such a fierce instability of the exchange rate, no one will seriously (except those involved and enthusiasts) use cryptocurrencies in everyday life.

Or you need to pay for prices in tokens directly, but then there is a problem of the number of tokens as such and multiple decimal point.
After all, there is no difference in concept if the cup of coffee 10 costs dollars or 0.0000001 of your favorite token.

Isn't that right?

Poker Player

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LOL. A breakthrough in cryptocurrency adoption?

A card that converts crypto to fiat?

See this: Why Binance’s New Debit Card Fails to Fulfill Satoshi’s Vision.

In my opinion, it could be a breakthrough if that card would pay in crypto directly and thus if merchants accepted crypto payments, being those transactions recorded in the blockchain.

Apart form that, I agree with what others have said. Fiat is not dead.

Cash is still king.

deisik

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Quote from: stompix on October 09, 2020, 01:02:58 PM

Quote from: deisik on October 08, 2020, 01:35:54 AM

The Russian ruble lost like 30% against the dollar during this year

And it lost 60% in 2014 and the country and the ruble are still there

We are not done yet

Do you know what was special about the 2014 crash? It felt totally out of the blue and because of that was particularly eerie. The 1998 crash was instant, and it had immediate causes. The crash of 2014 was caused by sanctions imposed and a few other factors. But it had taken a few months before that crash commenced. That's why I tell people to buckle up now

Quote from: stompix on October 09, 2020, 01:02:58 PM

Quote

To conclude, we must be aware that once things get serious and governments see that their monetary supremacy is being threatened, that they can no longer play their favorite game of inflation tax, they will leave no stone unturned to prevent mass use of crypto as an alternative means of payment. And cryptocurrency payment cards are hands down one of the best tools available for this use on a down-to-earth level, groceries and whatnot

You realize that all bitcoin cards are running on Visa and Mastercard's infrastructure, one push of a button and all are rendered useless, remember WaveCrest?

And? Does it take anything from cryptocurrency payment cards potentially being as handy and convenient as fiat ones, aside from being the exact reason why they were outlawed in the end?

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