Topic: Cryptocurrency Law in Brazil - page 2. (Read 723 times)

Ok


Just because Ethereum and the other related projects are used by finance companies, government agencies and banks does not cause it to not be either a scam or a ponzi scheme.


By definition proof of stake could not be decentralized... not only the theory of the matter, but also the practice of how the stake is used.  Another aspect is the pre-mine, so you are not even playing in a fair playing field if you do not know the quantity of tokens, but those with tokens are controlling various aspects of the policies regarding rewards of new coins are dished out and payments are confirmed and various other governing aspects of the scam chain.


You sound delusional in terms of buying into the various mumbo jumbo and ongoing changes of the rules that happen in ethereum.. including the various ways that ethereum moved from proof of work to proof of stake.. and you are trying to suggest that those rules were established and or changed in decentralized ways.. what a bunch of baloney..

Yeah, of course, you have hope that your coin will pump.. so proof of pumpamentals remains amongst the most sought after feature for those holding such crap coins.. and also hoping that the rug doesn't get pulled and/or that the floor does not otherwise fall out at any point prior to being able to sell.  Long term holding is another thing... you are praying that you are "in good hands,"  I would imagine.


I suppose that there might be some interesting ways in which ethereum trading systems are being built.. but they are still reliant upon the base layer.. so it is likely best to consider that if you have anything that is claiming to be decentralized, you need to start from the base layer first.  By definition.. and logically thinking about the matter:  Centralized can be built upon decentralized, but decentralized cannot be built upon centralized... so it is best to think about and consider the solidness of the base first, prior to presuming that any subsequent layer is capable of being decentralized if it is built upon a centralized base.


Payment of what?   Goods and services?  or moving coins around?  or what?  I have not been buying goods and services with bitcoin very much, either..


Sure it could, and I see no reason for anyone to diversify in to ethereum, if they are weighing the potential upside that could happen in ethereum.

It seems that the essence of the matter is that bitcoin is the king daddy of investments in the space, so the various shitcoins depend upon bitcoin in order to perform, and they would not be able to survive without bitcoin, so probably it is better to be invested in the king rather than some thing that is dependent upon it..^**   but hey, you can do whatever you like if you believe that adding risk to your investment portfolio has decent odds of paying off better than merely investing in bitcoin. . .. and I am not sure if we got anywhere with any of this discussion, even though surely there are countries like Brazil that are experiencing the same kinds of beliefs as you in terms of their getting involved in various shitcoins and believing that those shitcoins might be able to outperform bitcoin and also hopefully they are considering the various downside risks too..of investing in various kinds of crap products that have quite a few weaknesses including their proof of stake mumbo jumbo that is confusing enough in terms of figuring out how the thing keeps going.. and the system staying afloat based on mumbo jumbo staking confusions regarding points of vulnerability too. and then what's going to happen when there is permission to start to unstake. even though they are trying to control runs on the bank too by the way that they allow unstaking.. a work in progress in terms of one way of preserving the ponzi scheme over the next while trying to maintain a theatre of decentralization and new/ongoing investors (or should we say gullible folks) propping up the house of cards.

**It may well be worth highlighting that the vast majority of shitcoins, including ethereum, are affinity scam in their relationship to bitcoin, so in that regard, they frequently are trying to use the actual solid foundations of bitcoin and to cause people (especially newbs and other unwitting people.. and some of them even relatively smart people) to erroneously believe that they are sufficiently similar to bitcoin in order to be equal to bitcoin or better than bitcoin in one way or another that will cause them to go up in price/value... and the fact of the matter is that they would likely need to be at least 10x better than bitcoin to actually be able to take over the various solid value propositions of bitcoin.. so sure, there are likely some nice little bells and whistles that are provided by various other coins/shitcoins, and even with ethereum, it is possible that ethereum could end up doing some kind of a "flippening" on bitcoin, but that would not cause ethereum to overcome the many weaknesses that it maintains in terms of not really providing anything of value that is different from existing systems.. while causing people to believe that there may be something of value there.

I have Bitcoin, Ethereum, Cosmos, Polkadot and other coins in my investment portfolio.

I always try to analyze facts. Ethereum and its L2 solutions are used by many financial companies and government agencies, banks.

As long as Ethereum is decentralized, and as long as this coin is decentralized, it will be in my portfolio. The rules of the game in this ecosystem cannot be quickly changed.

A decentralized coin needs decentralized trading, and this is a big plus for the Ethereum ecosystem. I don't use centralized exchanges. For decentralized bitcoin trading, I need an intermediary.

I do not use bitcoin for payment, the payment takes a very long time. I usually use Tron ecosystem or Polygon with low fees.

I am not against bitcoin, but my forecast for the next 2-4 years is that ethereum will overtake bitcoin in terms of capitalization.

You can believe those various bullshit pie in the sky ethereum talking points all that you like, and make your investments (allocations) according to your beliefs.  It's not for me to attempt to convince you otherwise, especially if you seem to be unwilling and/or unable to see the bullshit contained therein... .. and sure it could take a while for the various bullshit smoke and mirrors, house of cards Rube Goldberg machine aspects of ethereum to come falling down, including their various bullshit lack of abilities for normies to verify how many coins there are and how those pre-mined coins are also ongoingly used for ethereum manipulation purposes... what's coming next?  Unstaking?  Do you believe it? Good for you.  Hopefully you don't get too burned by the nonsense in terms of if they might be able to keep those balls in the air for long enough to you to get out?  Does it matter?  1-2 years?  5 years?  10 years?

 Can they keep it going longer than that?  Maybe your timeline does not matter, but surely there are some folks who believe that bullshit and may well invest into ethereum while considering it to have some kind of a solid (or similar to bitcoin) foundation when it is not even in the ballpark of solid enough (or close to bitcoin in terms of strength of foundation)... but I must admit that so far, that crap has been pretty good at keeping its balls in the air with the various scams tokens built upon other scam tokens that it has been able to facilitate.. and perhaps even some non-scammers might have gotten richie in the process too.. some normies have been able to profit, even though almost everything there has scammy and bullshit token printing or ponzi scheme angles.. so sure there are some strengths in network effects, even when those network effects are built upon the combination of various kinds of vaporware or money printing scams (and there might even be some legitimate projects in there too.. perhaps? perhaps?)

yes... nation states and large institutions can also get involved in scams, ponzi schemes and money printing and sometimes they can facilitate such nonsense in ways that fit quite well with their fiat money printing and deceptive stealing of value from people practices.

Thank you for your opinion.
If you look from the point of view of manipulation, then for me Bitcoin and Ethereum are "the same eggs, only a side view" (C) (Russian proverb). The manipulators mined and bought cheap when they needed it, and then, with the help of pumps and dumps, they dropped extra passengers from the rocket. They own the media and can cause most people to become disillusioned and sell their assets.
But a lot of projects work on Ethereum, there are stocks and bonds and currencies of various banks, but there is nothing on Bitcoin. So I'm more worried about my bitcoins than ethereum.
The bitcoin ecosystem is very expensive to maintain, and I don't believe it won't have problems with high power consumption when countries ban mining in the future.

Desperate bullies who are trying to hang onto their relevance do not work like that.

Have you noticed what is happening in Nigeria.. with the recent bullying attempts with their CBDC? How about in india, when higher note rupees were discontinued?  Govt and banks pull all kinds of bullshit moves when they are trying to stop, discourage and/or dissuade people from moving to and/or using more sound forms of money.... Capital controls play into the matter too.. and many governments are very afraid in regards to people being able to move their value and/or to spend their value how they choose... so it does not seem accurate to be presuming that things are "hunky-dorey" in the world and the various forums of CBDCs are not going to continue to include coercive elements.


Of course, bitcoin is not safe.. and the level of your safety with it depends on what "attack vector" you are trying to hedge against and/or offset, so it is up to you whether you believe bitcoin to be a hedge and/or one of the options that you want to "take the chances" of keeping.  Sure you can keep all of your value in traditional assets, and "safe" government approved assets, and find out how well that is going to do for you.. Maybe you will be fine?  You have to figure out those kinds of things for yourself concerning whether to allocate anything to bitcoin and if so, then how much to allocate - including how to store it.. and whether you trust third parties to hold your cornz or if it might be better to take some measures to hold your own.. .


Sure since bitcoin came onto the scene 2009/2010 it hardly even had any market value.. so perhaps going back 8-10 years we could then start to trace bitcoin having more and more of a market value.. maybe 2011 or 2012 more and more ways to get bitcoin coming available for regular people and more developments that made it easier to hold it privately started becoming more popular and available in 2013/2014.  

There have always been some manipulators in bitcoin, and the kinds of manipulators (or even the attacks on bitcoin) have become more sophisticated, including various attempts to facilitate some financial instruments (maybe we could call them paper bitcoins since they might be settled in dollars rather than in bitcoin) to be used as attempts to manipulate BTC's price downwardly, and so some of those financial instruments run risks of getting reckt, too... that is if the BTC price moves against them and they cannot stop it from moving up while throwing a lot of fiat at bitcoin in order to attempt to suppress the BTC prices (or maybe even fake bitcoins - or even some other bullshit behaviors like FTX and perhaps some other exchanges had been doing and not having the bitcoin that they claimed to have had).


Bitcoin remains a baby.  NOT very many people own it.  You make your choices whether you want to participate in accumulating bitcoin, and if so how much and if so how you are going to attempt to protect your BTC holdings when you likely realize that outrageous BTC price moves (including to the downside) are not only likely but also likely to be inevitable (although we do not always have abilities to know where the bottoms are and when the are in and if there might be some points in which you are no longer able to get prices below certain price thresholds.. In early 2016, there was nearly 6 months of seeming desperation to keep prices below $500.. and then that battle ended up kind of continuing through the whole year, including in early 2017 there were a lot of DOWNity prognosticators that were saying that going back below $500 was inevitable.. and scared a lot of folks out of large portions of their BTC. .which surely did not work out very well for any of those who stuck to their position of waiting for sub $500 BTC prices to return.  We have a lot of those kinds of examples in bitcoin and some of those folks become bitter because they sell too much bitcoin too soon because they were filled with doom and gloom and negative thoughts that did not end up playing out and caused them to get reckt due to their failure/refusal to sufficiently and adequately prepare for UP - because they were too big of scaredy cats to consider that there were manipulators that would be able to get their way with bitcoin and it did not end up happening.  I expect that there will continue to be these kinds of periods and hopefully you do not allow yourself to be a casualty that fails/refuses to prepare for UP and keeps talking about downward possibilities that may or may not end up playing out.


Fuck shitcoins.

Ethereum is a scam and there is not any coin that comes even close to bitcoin in terms of whatever you may believe that you are studying in regards to "tokenomics".. and hopefully you sufficiently and adequately understand bitcoin.  Another thing to keep in mind in order to take over the incumbent position (which happens to be king daddy bitcoin), you better have something in the order of 10x improvement.. otherwise you are not likely to be able to do it.

Hopefully, you are not allocating (or would it be wasting) too much of your time, energies and perhaps value in terms of investing into shitcoins.. and I saw a lot of this in earlier years, where people would hardly have any bitcoin, and I would suggest not going to below 10% allocations, if they wanted to dabble in shitcoins, so therefore maybe something like 90% bitcoin and 10% shitcoins would be about the maximum that I would suggest for those wanting to be adventurous in wasting their time, energies and values to fuck around with crap... (or maybe we could suggest it to be gambling?).. but hey, you do you, and if you think that you are using your time, energies and values wisely and prudently, then so be it. You have the right to exercise your own discretions regarding how to mange those kinds of investments... or maybe you just love the thrill of gambling, new things and you believe dumb propaganda about the various ways that the shitcoins are going to overtake bitcoin blah blah blah.


Yeah.. I thought that Mercado Bitcoin was mostly bitcoin oriented, and they must have either lost their way or gotten taken over by a coup d'etat

Brazilian March 1, 2023
https://portaldobitcoin.uol.com.br/criptomoeda-do-nubank-tera-100-bilhoes-de-unidades-e-plano-de-airdrop-para-clientes-fieis/
Nubank Digital Bank Launched Nucoin This Wednesday

EN
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/19/buffett-backed-digital-bank-nubank-to-launch-its-own-cryptocurrency.html
"Nubank said Wednesday it will launch the token, called Nucoin, in the first half of 2023.
Nubank said it would invite 2,000 customers to take part in a forum group for guiding the development of Nucoin.
The new token offering comes against a bleak backdrop for cryptocurrencies, with bitcoin and other major digital assets down over 50% year-to-date."

How things go downhill so fast:

Mercado Bitcoin issues a token on Stellar Network, controlled by the government and on top of that we have
full house, royal flush of stay away from this thing.

And we find some new interesting thing from them, the most important being the Bitcoin is not a currency!


Funny coming from a government whose currency lost 70% versus the $ in the last decade. 

If banks work well in the country and there are no problems with P2P transfers, then CBDC will not be popular.

But I do not consider bitcoin to be a safe asset. Now it is safe, but in the first 8 years, more than 15 million coins were mined, and manipulators own bitcoin. When everyone is convinced that bitcoin is the safest asset, then the manipulators can sell their coins. I analyze many coins, and if I were to make a new digital gold, then I would plan a more even emission of coins. Ethereum has even more fun, and 72 million coins have been printed. Tokenomics looks more like speculation to me.

Gosh.. that sounds scary.

I would be wary of any CBDC.. whether it has been labelled as "approved" or not.. or "passing tests" that are certified by the govt or not.. sounds real scary to keep much if any value on such likely shitcoin or to have much reliance that you would have privacy in transacting it or the fear that at any time, such value storage and/or transaction ability could get shut off.

Bitcoin is open source.. so seems way the fuck more reliable than any other token that is purported to by "safe" "certified" or whatever other bullshit label that "authorities" want to place upon such "currencies."

Hopefully, people (normies and otherwise) are smart enough to transfer decent amounts of their value on bitcoin and to hold their bitcoin in their own wallets... so that they do not get tricked into believing that whatever value that they have accumulated and/or stored can realistically be saved on any kind of closed sourced system in which they might not be assured that the value will be there in the future or able to be transferred prior to any such time in which the value could be taken or diluted.

https://news.bitcoin.com/brazilian-digital-real-passes-public-blockchain-pilot-test-with-flying-colors/
Brazilian Digital Real Passes Public Blockchain Pilot Test With Flying Colors
"A tokenized version of the digital real, the Brazilian central bank digital currency (CBDC), has passed a public blockchain pilot test successfully. The test, which was carried out by Mercado Bitcoin, a local exchange, using the Stellar network, shows that the digital real token can be used in public blockchains following all compliance rules set by Brazilian laws."

This is most likely.
Globo also posted, it is the biggest jornal in Brazil.

https://oglobo.globo.com/blogs/lauro-jardim/post/2023/01/governo-lula-vai-rediscutir-marco-de-criptomoedas.ghtml

Oh crap!, this is what I get from being even once a week positive on something, I knew when I edited the post by mistake that was a sign! 
As a slight hope, it's still just one advisor saying that, but as I went through the article you posted, of course using google translate, there is a paragraph there in bold


Actually, I think a common currency with Argentina would be good for Brazil for a while as it can boost exports, I don't know if you have a positive trade balance but that would help for a while till all comes crashing down, for Argentina, yes, it going to be a replay of the Greek crisis every month till there is no Argentina left.

Lula's party is strongly against bitcoin  , as most socialists/leftist parties.  Recently an important figure of Lula government said that he "only believe in state backed currencies"
https://livecoins.com.br/economista-lula-bitcoin-so-acredito-em-moedas-estatais/

Lula is strongly favor this common currency in Latin America,which is most likely going to be terrible for Brazil...

We are now going in a different direction,  not the same as bolsonaro , when we had more libertarian economy  policies..

Hmm, this one is a surprise and a pleasant one.

I wouldn't have expected that in the last days of his mandate, especially with all the tantrum that was around those elections, the protests, Bolsonaro himself leaving the country at the end of the month, he would still care about that bill and get it signed. Lula never said anything else but the need of regulations about crypto, is the guy pro/anti or just simply neutral? With him on a charge to change everything Bolsonaro has done, I hope he will leave this alone as it's not hurting anybody! Just drop that stupid plan of a made-up common currency that has no future and use bitcoin!

The law introduces the definition of a virtual asset as "a digital representation of value that can be negotiated or transferred electronically and used for payments or as an investment." Thus, the legitimacy that BTC gains as a means of payment can stimulate financial activity in the country.

But the level of this activity will depend on the actions of the local regulator. It is expected that these functions will be shared by the Securities and Exchange Commission, which will be responsible for crypto assets classified as securities, and the Central Bank, which will be responsible for all other cryptocurrencies.

Did you know that the new law criminalizes fraud using digital currencies? This is punishable by a fine and two to six years in prison.

In addition, crypto companies are required to obtain virtual asset service provider licenses.

However, since the law will come into force 180 days after its signing, it will not really be in force until June 20, 2023. That is, until then, bitcoin is not actually an authorized means of payment.

Brazil president Jair Bolsonaro signed a bill to create crypto payment regulations. Jair Bolsonaro made no modifications to the bill that was approved by the congress before signing it into law on (thursday December 22), according to report the new law was to take effect in 180 days from when it was signed. The newly signed law only makes crypto legal in Brazil and also move the country closer to embrace digital currency, is like making Brazil to be amongst other crypto countries per say.
The bill was approved earlier this year by the senate but they were kind of dormant during because of the recent election, however the bill gained new urgency following the multibillion-dollar implosion of FTX.

https://www.competitionpolicyinternational.com/brazilian-president-signs-bill-creating-crypto-regulations/

There are no Russian crypto-exchanges in Russia either, and funds on binance can be blocked at any time and there are limits on the balance of funds.
Many users use VPNs and drops who are citizens of other countries. This is not safe, but keeping funds on centralized exchanges is also not safe.

This seems like the same scenario in my country. A group is trying to not just block Binance from getting a license but to ban it and file a case and impose penalties since many of my countrymen including me are using Binance. Although current exchanges here are improving, they are still miles behind what Binance offers like the lower fees, high volume, plenty of markets and it is easier to use. I can feel who's behind the movement since that company is not offering BNB or BUSD while it offers some coins that have lower values.

Nonetheless, the news is still positive, especially for Brazilian crypto enthusiasts. Maybe the next debate is about letting Binance enter the Brazilian market.

As I am from Brazil, I have been following this for quite some time.

There is a fundamental problem here with this law, which can be checked in the portuguese version:

https://cointelegraph.com.br/news/on-a-historic-day-deputies-approve-cryptocurrency-bill-in-brazil
Abccripto, a group of old and low quality Brazilian exchanges is behind this law.

This group have tried many times before to as government to ban binance from Brazil, as binance offers a high quality service for very low fees.

You can see here abccripto asking central bank to ban binance
https://www.abcripto.com.br/post/abcripto-aciona-bacen-mpf-e-cvm-contra-corretora-binancehttps://exame.com/future-of-money/dinheiro-tendencias/abcripto-pede-que-bc-mpf-e-cvm-suspendam-operacoes-da-binance-no-brasil/

This group wouls never support this law if it didnt help them in their goal

In the end, national exchanges cannot compete with binance. They offer a bad service (low volume, few coins, high fees, instability and website goes down when price drops etc.. ). So they are trying to ban binance.

Biannce has now about 60% of Brazilian daily volume.

https://portaldobitcoin.uol.com.br/lei-das-criptomoedas-e-aprovada-pela-camara-dos-deputados-e-vai-para-sancao-de-bolsonaro/
"The Chamber of Deputies approved, after seven years of debate, earlier this Tuesday evening (29) Bill (PL) 4,041/2021, which regulates the cryptocurrency market in Brazil. The text has been approved, dehydrated from the most controversial points and will now be sanctioned by the President of the Republic, Jair Bolsonaro."