CryptoSeal VPN shuts down rather than risk NSA demands for crypto keys

pedrog

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Activity: 2786

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Quote from: Spendulus on October 23, 2013, 02:08:48 PM

Quote from: pedrog on October 23, 2013, 01:08:19 PM

Yes, they admitted they are unable to de-anonymize all users.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/interactive/2013/oct/04/tor-stinks-nsa-presentation-document

That's not what they said. Basically they said they could only identify a few (a few percent).

Are we talking in different languages?

Spendulus

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Quote from: pedrog on October 23, 2013, 01:08:19 PM

Quote from: theonewhowaskazu on October 23, 2013, 10:55:45 AM

Quote from: pedrog on October 23, 2013, 09:31:45 AM

Quote from: theonewhowaskazu on October 22, 2013, 08:30:42 PM

Quote from: pbflash on October 22, 2013, 08:12:11 PM

Quote from: theonewhowaskazu on October 22, 2013, 04:19:20 PM

as far as I can see, there is literally no way of getting around this issue except by onion routing. Undecided

This is sure to drive even more users to TOR, not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing in the long run.

Do you really think the NSA can't trace TOR? Something like 60% of TORs development money came from the US Govt.

Enlighten me: How exactly do they get thru onion routing?

The answer: They can't.

There is a huge difference between legitimate parts of the government and illegitimate parts.

They can "deanonymize" some users, they just need to control enough nodes.

At best, its just a random thing. You basically need to set up a lot of nodes and just hope that the target user relays thru them.

If you're concerned about stuff like this, the best thing you can do is, guess what, set up your computer as a relay.

Yes, they admitted they are unable to de-anonymize all users.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/interactive/2013/oct/04/tor-stinks-nsa-presentation-document

That's not what they said. Basically they said they could only identify a few (a few percent).

pedrog

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Activity: 2786

Merit: 1031

Quote from: theonewhowaskazu on October 23, 2013, 10:55:45 AM

Quote from: pedrog on October 23, 2013, 09:31:45 AM

Quote from: theonewhowaskazu on October 22, 2013, 08:30:42 PM

Quote from: pbflash on October 22, 2013, 08:12:11 PM

Quote from: theonewhowaskazu on October 22, 2013, 04:19:20 PM

as far as I can see, there is literally no way of getting around this issue except by onion routing. Undecided

This is sure to drive even more users to TOR, not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing in the long run.

Do you really think the NSA can't trace TOR? Something like 60% of TORs development money came from the US Govt.

Enlighten me: How exactly do they get thru onion routing?

The answer: They can't.

There is a huge difference between legitimate parts of the government and illegitimate parts.

They can "deanonymize" some users, they just need to control enough nodes.

At best, its just a random thing. You basically need to set up a lot of nodes and just hope that the target user relays thru them.

If you're concerned about stuff like this, the best thing you can do is, guess what, set up your computer as a relay.

Yes, they admitted they are unable to de-anonymize all users.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/interactive/2013/oct/04/tor-stinks-nsa-presentation-document

Mike Christ

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Activity: 1078

Merit: 1003

Quote from: dserrano5 on October 23, 2013, 02:58:56 AM

If you want to make it harder for the NSA to trace/hack/control Tor and have at least 50 spare Kb/s, then please set up your own relay. You don't have to be an exit node.

Thanks for reminding me about this; I used to have a relay setup but reformatted and forgot about the whole thing.

theonewhowaskazu

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

Quote from: pedrog on October 23, 2013, 09:31:45 AM

Quote from: theonewhowaskazu on October 22, 2013, 08:30:42 PM

Quote from: pbflash on October 22, 2013, 08:12:11 PM

Quote from: theonewhowaskazu on October 22, 2013, 04:19:20 PM

as far as I can see, there is literally no way of getting around this issue except by onion routing. Undecided

This is sure to drive even more users to TOR, not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing in the long run.

Do you really think the NSA can't trace TOR? Something like 60% of TORs development money came from the US Govt.

Enlighten me: How exactly do they get thru onion routing?

The answer: They can't.

There is a huge difference between legitimate parts of the government and illegitimate parts.

They can "deanonymize" some users, they just need to control enough nodes.

At best, its just a random thing. You basically need to set up a lot of nodes and just hope that the target user relays thru them.

If you're concerned about stuff like this, the best thing you can do is, guess what, set up your computer as a relay.

pedrog

legendary

Activity: 2786

Merit: 1031

Quote from: theonewhowaskazu on October 22, 2013, 08:30:42 PM

Quote from: pbflash on October 22, 2013, 08:12:11 PM

Quote from: theonewhowaskazu on October 22, 2013, 04:19:20 PM

as far as I can see, there is literally no way of getting around this issue except by onion routing. Undecided

This is sure to drive even more users to TOR, not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing in the long run.

Do you really think the NSA can't trace TOR? Something like 60% of TORs development money came from the US Govt.

Enlighten me: How exactly do they get thru onion routing?

The answer: They can't.

There is a huge difference between legitimate parts of the government and illegitimate parts.

They can "deanonymize" some users, they just need to control enough nodes.

Lethn

legendary

Activity: 1540

Merit: 1000

Wait a minute, all you need to operate a VPN is a connection, so U.S customers can just go to someone outside the country to set things up and with Bitcoin it's now going to be even easier so the only way the NSA could realistically stop all this is shooting themselves in the foot china style and blocking off all access to the outside world.

"But it's all to keep us safe!" I'm sure government loyalists will say Roll Eyes

dserrano5

legendary

Activity: 1974

Merit: 1029

If you want to make it harder for the NSA to trace/hack/control Tor and have at least 50 spare Kb/s, then please set up your own relay. You don't have to be an exit node.

theonewhowaskazu

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

Quote from: pbflash on October 22, 2013, 09:05:37 PM

Quote from: theonewhowaskazu on October 22, 2013, 08:30:42 PM

The answer: They can't.

Are you 100% sure? If you are then I guess you have nothing to worry about. I'm not 100% sure that they can't or that they won't be able to in the very near future.

The only way in which they could is if they were pulling off the equivalent of a 51% attack on the TOR network. Which they basically don't have. If you don't trust me, trust the NSA themselves: http://www.theguardian.com/world/interactive/2013/oct/04/tor-stinks-nsa-presentation-document

pbflash

member

Activity: 66

Merit: 10

Quote from: theonewhowaskazu on October 22, 2013, 08:30:42 PM

The answer: They can't.

Are you 100% sure? If you are then I guess you have nothing to worry about. I'm not 100% sure that they can't or that they won't be able to in the very near future.

theonewhowaskazu

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

Quote from: pbflash on October 22, 2013, 08:12:11 PM

Quote from: theonewhowaskazu on October 22, 2013, 04:19:20 PM

as far as I can see, there is literally no way of getting around this issue except by onion routing. Undecided

This is sure to drive even more users to TOR, not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing in the long run.

Do you really think the NSA can't trace TOR? Something like 60% of TORs development money came from the US Govt.

Enlighten me: How exactly do they get thru onion routing?

The answer: They can't.

There is a huge difference between legitimate parts of the government and illegitimate parts.

pbflash

member

Activity: 66

Merit: 10

Quote from: theonewhowaskazu on October 22, 2013, 04:19:20 PM

as far as I can see, there is literally no way of getting around this issue except by onion routing. Undecided

This is sure to drive even more users to TOR, not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing in the long run.

Do you really think the NSA can't trace TOR? Something like 60% of TORs development money came from the US Govt.

theonewhowaskazu

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

Quote

if a pen register order is made on a provider, and the provider's systems do not readily facilitate full monitoring of pen register information and delivery to the Government in realtime, the Government can compel production of cryptographic keys via a warrant to support a government-provided pen trap device.

as far as I can see, there is literally no way of getting around this issue except by onion routing. Undecided

This is sure to drive even more users to TOR, not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing in the long run.

biggie

member

Activity: 85

Merit: 10

I was considering https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/ but they are physically in the u.s with a u.k office. Guess that's out of the question now.

Littleshop

legendary

Activity: 1386

Merit: 1004

Quote from: Wilikon on October 21, 2013, 05:56:39 PM

So this is how they will play it: destroying US VPN businesses who will refuse a backdoor to the NSA... The meaning is almost as if any US based VPN services will be compromised as the law forbids them to even mention it.

Of course I could argue why this is bad for so many reasons but I am not....

This type of thing is bad for the NSA's own interest. Sure they can get some great info for a bit but long term they are cutting their own sources. The best tactic would be to use NSA letters rarely on the bigger more important cases but do this far less often then they are doing now, reserved for actual terrorist plans not drugs, copyright stuff, leaker patriots and child porn. Let the FBI go after those other cases using only constitutional warrants.

The strategy they are using now will just cause VPN providers to all close in the USA (due to lack of business) and new ones will open from outside of US control and the NSA will get nothing. Anyone wanting to avoid the NSA reach will use an overseas provider.

Wilikon

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Activity: 1176

Merit: 1001

minds.com/Wilikon

Quote from: Kluge on October 21, 2013, 08:34:44 PM

Quote from: trilightzone.org on October 21, 2013, 08:13:37 PM

Sometimes we wonder where all this is going to end ? What is next, a camera in the living room for each U.S citizen ?

It's called the Kinect!

It is called: "Any gadget you own that has a built mic and built in webcam in your possession".
http://xiaopan.co/forums/threads/how-hackers-can-switch-on-your-webcam-and-control-your-computer.3642/

OK but now think what kind of tools an unlimited budget for the CIA/NSA (compared to the "regular" hackers) can give you. Tinfoil hats' conspiracy is REALITY.

Kluge

donator

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1015

Quote from: trilightzone.org on October 21, 2013, 08:13:37 PM

Sometimes we wonder where all this is going to end ? What is next, a camera in the living room for each U.S citizen ?

It's called the Kinect!

Carlton Banks

legendary

Activity: 3430

Merit: 3079

Quote from: trilightzone.org on October 21, 2013, 08:13:37 PM

Sometimes we wonder where all this is going to end ? What is next, a camera in the living room for each U.S citizen ?

That's a great plan you've got there Citizen Trilightzone, this will stop all living room based crime dead in it's tracks. Report to your local police station for collection of your Patriotic Crime Hero Award.

trilightzone.org

newbie

Activity: 47

Merit: 0

Sometimes we wonder where all this is going to end ? What is next, a camera in the living room for each U.S citizen ?

scarsbergholden

hero member

Activity: 686

Merit: 500

Quote

if a pen register order is made on a provider, and the provider's systems do not readily facilitate full monitoring of pen register information and delivery to the Government in realtime, the Government can compel production of cryptographic keys via a warrant to support a government-provided pen trap device.

whoa... did not realize this was the situation. US government don't mess around....

Topic: CryptoSeal VPN shuts down rather than risk NSA demands for crypto keys (Read 1378 times)