Topic: [CryptoStocks] Satoshi Poker IPO (Read 8487 times)

I'm going to keep this short considering you come to this thread and probably this forum for one reason only, looking at your post count. I would invite anybody that is interested in purchasing shares during the IPO to do their own research.

I don't see how it would be unetical to sign players a pro deal on the promise to get people over. If you run a pokersite, there is only one place you can get your customers from: the competition.

If you look at the thread in Grindabit you mention it is actually the same pro's that ran with the money I staked them to come back 2 months later to accuse SP out of the blue, just based on a feeling they had. In fact, after posting the evidence on the matter, the same pro's left the thread. I'm not going to stake players to then get back the money I provided to get the cash games going.

If you post information, please post the correct one, as I have the habit of ignoring baseless accusations and misrepresentations.

There is plenty of presidency for non USD currency poker online operating for years without a license. Not to mention that once one is needed, a "gambling license" is very easy to obtain.

I'm going to keep this short considering you come to this thread and probably this forum for one reason only, looking at your post count. I would invite anybody that is interested in purchasing shares during the IPO to do their own research.

I don't see how it would be unetical to sign players a pro deal on the promise to get people over. If you run a pokersite, there is only one place you can get your customers from: the competition. If you look at the thread in Grindabit you mention it is actually the same pro's that ran with the money I staked them to come back 2 months later to accuse SP out of the blue, just based on a feeling they had. In fact, after posting the evidence on the matter, the same pro's left the thread. I'm not going to stake players to then get back the money I provided to get the cash games going.

If you post information, please post the correct one, as I have the habit of ignoring baseless accusations and misrepresentations.

There is only one place you can get your customers from: the competition

The fact that the biggest bitcoin pokersite runs on $300 maven software says enough IMO.

I envision SP to become a community owned site in the near future

According to dutch law bitcoin isn't money. According to european law, bitcoin isn't money. Which makes satoshi poker legally equal to zynga poker on facebook.

I am going to now ask this for the third and final time as you have so far failed to answer, before I leave this thread and it's potential investors to make up their own minds.

Do you honestly believe that offering your services without applying for the appropriate licenses to fenced countries such as Spain, Italy, Belgium etc is not illegal?

What about U.S.A. do you think the UIGEA does not apply to you simply because you are using bitcoin? If so please provide evidence of any legal opinion ever provided to anyone in regards to online poker in the U.S.A. that this is the case.

While I have absolutely no reason to suggest you are not a trustworthy member of the poker community - touting that list as meaning you are the most trustworthy player in online poker is totally absurd. That list has no meaning when it comes to morality or ethics, all it shows is that you have not welched on some bets essentially. I would generally expect the most trusted guy in online poker to have a few more followers on twitter than the 13 you have. Just as a comparison lets look at someone who is actually considered to be one of the most trustworthy players in online poker Isaac (Ike, LuvtheWNBA)  Haxton who has well over 13,000 twitter followers. That is a guy that when he speaks about ethics, trust and morality the poker community actually listen. A guy that is frequently chosen by the poker community to moderate disputes both financial and ethical.

Today i have been studying the criticisms of Satoshi Poker, our IPO, and our future potential. I feel I should speak up. My online identity is PLO8MONSTER. (Randall M)

I am the site pro and i have worked very hard to help Satoshi grow this site. I have worked very closely with our CEO to turn this company around. I'm no MBA, with the experience of investing as many of you who are posting criticism do. So first of all, I respect that many of you are highly accomplished bitcoin investors. I do not intend to discount your concerns.

Indeed, i respect your accomplishments. It is great for the Bitcoin industry as a whole to have a platform for discussion of bitcoin investment.

What i do posses is the tremendous trust of my fellow bitcoin poker players.. We as players also use a WOT (wall of trust) ...  ... I am considered one of the very most trustworthy poker players online period.

See plo8monster listed at the top of the WOT at  http://sealsdeals.info/?trust

I have been on the top of that list since it's inception. I currently have fallen from "THE" most trusted online bitcoin poker player to 3nd on that list of thousand of players. This is because I am no longer playing at the competitors poker site. I could easily take the number one position back if i cared to play as a staked player again, at a site i lost trust for. That competitors site took a bad path that inflicted harm on it's players.. Plo8monster no longer plays that site for that very reason.

People trust me, players trust me, admins trust me, but most of all........ I trust me to "TELL THE TRUTH" no matter what !!

I am not anonymous. All you need do to discover my identity is Google PLO8MONSTER. What i am saying here is that I DO trust this proposal for bitcoin investors is awesome!!

It is my firm belief that cognizance is commensurate with courage. And it takes a tremendous amount of courage and even faith, to look at something from different point of veiw. So im just gonna put my point of view out here for all to see...

I think this offer as a penny stock, will later give you options, that you will not want to miss.. I would suggest trying some of this venture, but certainly not a large purchase at this time. Furthermore, I suggest you view it as a venture not a stream of revenue within its first year..(there will be some revenue generated but nothing substantial until we triple in size). Which actually is not that far away!

Honestly,  we ARE growing. I have a lot of sweat equity into making that happen... When I accepted this position, it was because Satoshi made a commitment to design a no drama zone.  A "safe and pleasant place to play your poker and call home" ... I told him "if we build it they will come" and they are coming. The blatant corruption on other sites pushed me away. I welcomed this opportunity.

Do i feel Satoshi has exaggerated income? Yes to some extent that is true. We have NOW reached a level of daily loyal players to cover our tournaments and guarantees... This Past few weeks we have actually raised Guarantees, because the number of active players has grown substantially.. We are experiencing great momentum, and that is why this offer is being made. Timing is everything. We simply want to fully take advantage of the momentum we have worked so hard to create.

I have helped grow other sites, so this is not my first rodeo... All online poker sites lose money early on... And a lot of that is due to them having to provide tournament guarantees that dont cover cost. They do this early on, so that the cash game tables are available. The cash games are the profit early on.. But the growth in a site is due to tournament play. Eventually the tournament play becomes slightly profitable, and thus making all cash play pure profit... We at Satoshi Poker are at this stage of development currently.

The best way i can explain this is that early on poker sites grow by addition. The sites add players until they have enuf to run tournaments and build a schedule that is adaptable for growth. Yet, the goal is to; not give the farm away with guarantees while doing it. That is where I fit in.. That is what my boss and I have accomplished, since my arrival as Satoshi Poker's site pro.

Now here is the deal, that an investor needs to know!! When the poker site reaches the stage we are currently at, the growth no longer remains addition, it becomes multiplication. Once Viral it becomes exponential growth... So if your looking for an investment that will pay exponentially, A poker site such as ours, Has awesome potential for that kinda growth...

I'm not gonna lie to you, or stretch the truth., When i arrived at Satoshi Poker we had a bad business model for pro and site.. It was not profitable for either party. And because the pro's held no accountability it was a lose/lose relationship.  I have since worked with Satoshi to build a win/win relationship with our player our pro's our affiliates and our investors... Poker players like me we dont understand high finance.. But we do understand EV and implied odds and how to maximize the hand we are dealt... The estimated value ( within 2 years of today) with the implied odds of Satoshi poker's growth in the bitcoin poker industry, make this a good venture investment..

I predict not only will the value of our company grow to meet this offer, but as bitcoin itself gains value  it makes this a double plus ROI plus ROI for risk vs reward... I suggest you dont make large purchases at this time, that you hold the shares you buy. As we grow your going to have leverage to make large purchases as this small  investment matures.. Your biggest ventures in life will always be the ones that were ground floor opportunities.

That is my take on it... Now I will tell you this also, the funds we are raising will accelerate our growth. We need your help, but we will succeed regardless. It may be slower, but we have a successful model working currently that WILL only improve.. We have no intention to abandon Satoshi Poker for any reason.. It is our child... We didnt throw it away because it was broken. We repaired damages and amended our approach to growth. This Is working and will only get better.. A site like ours has perpetual growth potential. And I have to say our players appreciate us, and we appreciate them.

If you really want to know the value of a company and especially the value of its future, ask it's clients.

I am asking my boss to post this, on behalf of Satoshi Poker at your site for bitcoin investors. I will post it for our players on Grindabit's Satoshi Poker forum. WE as players, and as a players poker site, ask you to please consider that any company's best assets are their people. We are a good investment.

Players,  please feel free to comment on how you feel about Satoshi poker in the long run. Please be aware potential investors may read your post. So tell the truth and be honest and forthright with your comments.. We can grow faster and easier with the capital we are raising. This will benefit you as a player and us as a business.. Speak up, as always, we value the input of our loyal players.

~~~plo8
__________________
- If we build it, they will come -

Satoshi Poker
plo8monster
Site Pro - Satoshi Poker

Ohhh So you paid only 40k. Well this makes even less sense then, because as "thy" points out you've already taken a considerable amount of investor money, while you claim to have invested more than 100k yourself. Please elaborate on the 100k you say you've personally put into this project and where that has then gone.

And I know you don't charge/send rake to specific bitcoin addresses. All im asking is for you to show proof of deposit volume so investors can see if your 2.5 to 4 bitcoins in rake per day holds up.

To me, you obviously don't know what you are doing and you've unfortunately so far been able to basically scam a few people already, I wish I stumbled upon this back then, maybe I could have saved someone.

The fact that you say you can make your site the fifth largest poker site in the world, in 12 months, based on this IPO, is so absurd it speaks for itself. Do you realize the budgets you are competing against? Even some smaller sites are paying 200mill just to sponsor a soccer team.. And they are like 30 on that list.

It gets even worse, you are claiming this without submitting any facts, documentation, plans or anything that would indicate you are on that path. All you are saying is that you would like these investors to overpay for a software upgrade. Why? Because you are realizing this doesn't work, you are running out of funds, losing money on freerolls/promotions, forcing you to scale back and this is the only hope and time you have.. Take your bag and leave, stop lying and sell the site for 10-20k and move on.

And I want to point out something else when I've first started:

In the grindabit thread linked earlier you are accused by your own "sponsored pros" (which are just regular players for the record) of playing and winning funds versus them with an anon-alias on your own site. Not only that but you also admit they are Seals player and their sole task was to bring friends and player over from there. This is very unethical and not something a serious poker site would ever do!

And you also admit that you allow a bot to play on your site because "the bot is bad and you don't want it coming back under new alias" This is literately insane, you are basically allowing someone to tweak their bot without interference..

You are totally misquoting me. I paid $40k for the current software which was the desktop client and the html5 client (see https://satoshipoker.org/html5).
Im not remotely interested in buying the source of the current client. Enterra rebuilt their software applications from scratch making them fully communicate and native for the mobile users. They charge $90k license fee for all their clients which are: 1 windows desktop client, 1 MacOS client, 1 native android app, 1 iphone app and 1 html5 client. We already own the licenses for our current software. The $90K is to buy licenses for the new bundle package and the $100k is the price tag to get the source code of every one of these products so we can put our own team up to devellop this.

We don't charge rake to a bitcoin address. The rake is deducted from player accounts by our backend and thus we get a surplus in our hot wallet. On weekly basis we check the total player balances and the funds in cold storage and if needed add some funds to these cold wallets. If not needed we use the funds for marketing or promotion. With the IPO we will automatically reserve 50% of all rake in one player account so we can see exactly how much has to be paid out. We will have that account withdraw to CryptoStock and pay out the dividends. I will post you some graphs and statistics tomorrow, even though you are not interested to buy. I had a 3-day session preparing for this and I am in Bangkok time zone. I'm going to get some sleep first.

I'm not Mr. P. My name's Hannah.

Anyway, taking the cheap and easy way out is likely to land you in mud, which is alright I guess if you're only responsible for yourself, but it gets a lot less harmless once you start soliciting third parties for funds.

Could you please explain a few things how many shares in total is there will be in SatoshiPoker is the numbers lavafish mentined in another post 100 000 000 that is on bitfunder the total number of shares in SP and the 5% he mentions whats going to be sold ?

Does it really cost that much to get listed on Bitfunder, 400 BTC ?

So you want to sell 5% of the company pre IPO and what, 5% after IPO  to the public ?


I think you mentioned somewhere(on btcjam i believe it was) before that you were one of tree (original) owners in SP, but on bitfunder there seems to be 13 different people owning shares now, the 3 biggest owners only have 74 445 833 shares, around 74,4% if 100 million is the total, even if it was 4 owners and not 3 you said before, then the 4 biggest owners only have 85 800 000 shares or 85,8%. The numbers that is mention in this thread and others dosent seem to add up, has 25,6% or maby 14,2% of the shares been sold pre IPO.
So has more than the mentioned 5% been sold already ? Maby shares for 1136 btc or even 2044 btc then ?

"....Considering all above, I believe that 8000BTC is an absolute undervaluation of our company. Thats all. Gotta run, I have a mission to lead."

What is the valuation of that SatoshiPoker is worth way more 8000 btc based on ?
What is the price per share pre IPO that you sell it for ?
8000/100 000 000 = 0,00008000 btc or 8000 satouchi per share then ?

Where do you have any numbers avaliable for preIPO investors and potential investors after the stock IPO's at bitfunder. Pokerscout (that you mention when comparing to sealswithclubs) don't have any numbers for SatoshiPoker on players(Players Online, Cash Players, 24 Hr Peak, 7 Day Avg) and i havent seen anything metioned what the avg bet, rake or profit is for SatoshiPoker for any weeks in the past, only some mentioning that numbers have gone up ?

SATOSHI represents Satoshi Poker; Bitcoins premier poker site
Issuer Info
BitcoinFlush is trusted member of the bitcointalk.org forums. Identity information has been provided privately to cryptostocks as a gesture of good faith, and an avenue for emergency contact.

...
Reserved Rights
Issuer reserves the following rights:
1. To do a Second Public Offering if market demands justifies
2. To make changes to this contract that represent the best interests of its shareholders
3. To correct and clarify any gross errors or details herein that may prove to be open to misinterpretation

Voting Rights
There are no voting rights associated with the shares.
...

Yes, I still remember that you helped me to set up a GPG code in the past, Mircea. Thing was that I didn't have the time to find out how all these systems worked and with the first investor requesting specificly to be listed on bitfunder, I chose not to go through the hassle and get listed there instead of on mpex. I will always listen to founded criticism and there are indeed some valid questions in this post, which is why I take time to answer them. Thanks for your starters guide. You know who some of the investors behind Satoshi Poker are, so if you don't mind I'll pass on reading it completely.

Good luck with mpex!

Anyone considering this should start by looking at some of the following websites

http://www.pokerscout.com/  (industry std website for measuring leading poekrsites and active number of players - satoshi pokers     7 day average is 1 player, the 5th largest poker site has an average of 2050)

http://diamondflushpoker.com/ (independent poker news site with in-depth coverage of Black Friday and the relevant American laws regarding online poker)

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28/internet-poker/satoshipoker-co-bitcoin-poker-room-official-support-thread-1358099/

This is Satoshi Pokers own thread on the most popular online poker community forum please read through and evaluate for yourself what players who actually use the site are saying about player numbers and available games.


While this list is by no means exhaustive it should provide you with some insight into what Satoshi poker is up against. Online poker is one of the most fiercely competitive industries online with Rational Group holding the lions share of the market generating billions in rake per annum.

It's like me coming up with a new brand of coke and thinking I can take on Coca-Cola and win - it is beyond ridiculous. I am not denying you can possibly run a profitable site but investors will never see a return on this IPO valuation and you have provided no data to suggest otherwise.

Please post your deposit address validating your rake per day claims.
Please post some graps/docs of player volume

About the costs, you are saying you paid 90k for a software that by your own words does not meet the "minimal industry standards" 5-6months later. Then you now want to buy the source of this "outdated" software for 100k, for then to pay another x amount for the new software (additions?) that will be done in December. Sounds like a great plan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpnxd31y0Fo