Currency v Property - page 7. | Bitcointalksearch.org

Piladeer

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Quote from: Yakamoto on September 02, 2016, 05:46:22 PM

Quote from: Piladeer on September 02, 2016, 03:24:08 PM

Currency is what is used to purchase property so I do not really get the discussion here.
You are purchasing an asset when you take ownership of the property that you are buying.

I believe that the debate is based around the question whether or not Bitcoin is a property or a currency, and this probably relates to how it would potentially be taxed in the future if the governments were to start recognizing it and allowing it. I personally believe that anything physical and hold-able is considered a property, something like a house or a car, while a currency is something that holds a form of monetary value and not intrinsic value based on one's perception.

I know these terms as assets and not property.
Too me when i hear the world property I think instantly of the game monopoly and you are purchasing property to call your claim on the land that it resides on too.

Xester

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Quote from: S@toshiDirect on August 31, 2016, 10:05:41 PM

I've been interested in the currency versus property debates in State courts throughout the USA. It's an interesting topic to consider. Outside of the theoretical debate, it seems to me that in practice bitcoiners themselves view and use Bitcoin as property and not as a means of payment/value transfer.

What are your thoughts? And does it really matter?

It does not matter, if its a currency or property as long as you can use it as an exchange to other items then its okay. After all if its currency or property as long as you can sell it or use to purchase things then its not an issue. But looking at bitçoin right now bitcoin is both a currency and a property. It is a property because you need to buy it using dollars but it is a currency since you can purchase things using bitcoins.

shinratensei_

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Quote from: Hazir on September 02, 2016, 01:56:37 PM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on September 02, 2016, 12:32:20 AM

Quote from: Hazir on August 31, 2016, 10:32:22 PM

Categorization of Bitcoin is never ending discussion. It is a currency, commodity, property? This actually is a problem.

In one country BTC is currency in others commodity and some others are waiting...

Semantics and legal issues are the reasons why we don't have any serious bitcoin legislation in place.

In US bitcoin is classified both as currency (by U.S. Treasury ) and commodity (by Commodity Futures Trading Commission).

How simple people can be smart when even pros have no idea what bitcoin really is?

Maybe the regulators should make a new category. Then in that category they should start from scratch and create new laws for it. If they will depend on the system they have now then there would be a lot of holes a lawyer could find. One good example is the man from Florida who was charged with money laundering using bitcoins. The judge dismissed his case because the judge declared that bitcoin is not real money. I think the judge did what he did because he does not want to make a mistake that will set a precedent in the upcoming money laundering cases involving bitcoin. It was way over his head.

Bitcoin is used in less than 0.1% cases of money laundering compared to standard FIAT. Do we really have to treat BTC like holy grail of money laundering?
Financial elites and banks and parabanks laundered probably more dirty money in in 21th century (last 15 years) than current bitcoin market cap is.

But for the money laundering bitcoin just waiting for their chance, until the criminal people is looking at bitcoin become a new way for doing that, especially for money laundering.

MTBTT

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Quote from: Mike8 on September 02, 2016, 02:20:48 AM

Bitcoin is a digital asset.
Since it holds value, it can be used any time as a coin, but it's much more than that.

I think the property also has a price? especially property prices seem to keep going up every year? What do you think ? investing in property seems to be more profitable than investing in bitcoin?

Yakamoto

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Quote from: Piladeer on September 02, 2016, 03:24:08 PM

Currency is what is used to purchase property so I do not really get the discussion here.
You are purchasing an asset when you take ownership of the property that you are buying.

I believe that the debate is based around the question whether or not Bitcoin is a property or a currency, and this probably relates to how it would potentially be taxed in the future if the governments were to start recognizing it and allowing it. I personally believe that anything physical and hold-able is considered a property, something like a house or a car, while a currency is something that holds a form of monetary value and not intrinsic value based on one's perception.

S@toshiDirect

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What I'm getting at is that the real world use of bitcoin is property (ie an investment). It seems to be very rarely used as currency (ie to pay for something).

My opinion is that for Bitcoin (or any other network) to grow significantly it needs to be broadly accepted and used by the mainstream. I don't see any other way to significantly increase demand. I don't see the mainstream holding Bitcoin as an investment. Bitcoin's use as a payment vehicle seems to make a lot of sense for International transactions or in countries with unstable currencies, but it's difficult to sell anyone in first world countries on the USD, EUR, GBP, AUD, JPY etc that Bitcoin is a better means of payment than credit cards, debit cards, PayPal, Apple Pay, etc. Especially when the truth is that we don't at all, or rarely use Bitcoin as a payment method.

I believe that Bitcoin will eventually emerge as the superior currency, but I think it will take another decade. Until then, during the growth period of the network, it will be a good investment. Which brings it full circle, again, holding Bitcoin as an investment doesn't encourage or increase mainstream adoption.

Piladeer

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Currency is what is used to purchase property so I do not really get the discussion here.
You are purchasing an asset when you take ownership of the property that you are buying.

buddu

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Bitcoin is a currency and will remain as long as it has reasonable value which is reachable by a common man. Once it will gain huge value as many people expect and price will be much higher then it will become commodity. This is what i don't like I want it to be used as currency a digital currency instead of being considered as property or commodity like gold or real estate.

jaysabi

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The IRS definition is probably the most important definition because it dictates how you have to claim income from trading in bitcoin. Whether the treasury classifies it as a currency or not has no impact on how bitcoin is used, but the IRS classifying it as property has tangible effects on ownership and behavior using bitcoin. All other entities can consider it currency, but until the IRS agrees, it is subject to property rules for taxing purposes.

abugseuf

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if we talk about fiat currency and compare it with property then i will like to say that property is too good than the fiat currency as the value of fiat currency decreases as compare to property which value is increasing rapidly, but if we compare bitcoin currency with property then bitcoin is too better than property because the price of bitcoin is is hope to be increase very soon.

Fraxinus

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I agree that bitcoin is more than a currency and that's what makes it unique-it covers much more areas than just being a means of payment and that's what I really like about it.Bitcoin is much more and that's what it makes it better.
Actually I really like how BTC can entirely change the idea of a currency.

Hazir

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on September 02, 2016, 12:32:20 AM

Quote from: Hazir on August 31, 2016, 10:32:22 PM

Categorization of Bitcoin is never ending discussion. It is a currency, commodity, property? This actually is a problem.

In one country BTC is currency in others commodity and some others are waiting...

Semantics and legal issues are the reasons why we don't have any serious bitcoin legislation in place.

In US bitcoin is classified both as currency (by U.S. Treasury ) and commodity (by Commodity Futures Trading Commission).

How simple people can be smart when even pros have no idea what bitcoin really is?

Maybe the regulators should make a new category. Then in that category they should start from scratch and create new laws for it. If they will depend on the system they have now then there would be a lot of holes a lawyer could find. One good example is the man from Florida who was charged with money laundering using bitcoins. The judge dismissed his case because the judge declared that bitcoin is not real money. I think the judge did what he did because he does not want to make a mistake that will set a precedent in the upcoming money laundering cases involving bitcoin. It was way over his head.

Bitcoin is used in less than 0.1% cases of money laundering compared to standard FIAT. Do we really have to treat BTC like holy grail of money laundering?
Financial elites and banks and parabanks laundered probably more dirty money in in 21th century (last 15 years) than current bitcoin market cap is.

angryswamp

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Quote from: Mike8 on September 02, 2016, 02:20:48 AM

Bitcoin is a digital asset.
Since it holds value, it can be used any time as a coin, but it's much more than that.

yeah, i think it is the best thats why i choose bitcoin over all the other investment options, i think that bitcoin is going to be huge in the future

gandame

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The currency is a kind of currency to which it can spend the people buy food and clothes . And many more things . The property also has the things that you own that you can buy or keep worrying . Such as house and land is your property that can cause to your future children . Because the currency finds that even if you do not have a property if you have money you can buy it.

shinratensei_

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It's not logic for debates about currency vs loans because you can produce the currency for every time but not for the property if you giving an example like a house but I sure the land for making your house is limited and until this time I feel better for saving my money into property form.

Mike8

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Bitcoin is a digital asset.
Since it holds value, it can be used any time as a coin, but it's much more than that.

rphk

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i believe bitcoin may not be property , it is like an digital currency , mainly used for earning online and exchanging to different currency. property means like you can says that will be for longer tenure , as bitcoins are volatile and prices vary an time

.

MingLee

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Quote from: S@toshiDirect on August 31, 2016, 10:05:41 PM

I've been interested in the currency versus property debates in State courts throughout the USA. It's an interesting topic to consider. Outside of the theoretical debate, it seems to me that in practice bitcoiners themselves view and use Bitcoin as property and not as a means of payment/value transfer.

What are your thoughts? And does it really matter?

Personally it looks more like the defining line between property and currency is getting more and more arbitrarily defined, and it looks like personal opinion precedes every other form of logic when you are required to define it. I personally view property as something more tangible and something you can see as an object, while currency is a token of value in my opinion. There are some lines that cross, e.i. a currency can also be property in a physical form, but for Bitcoin I would say it is more of a currency than a form of property, however even I think the line is somewhat fuzzy.

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: Hazir on August 31, 2016, 10:32:22 PM

Categorization of Bitcoin is never ending discussion. It is a currency, commodity, property? This actually is a problem.

In one country BTC is currency in others commodity and some others are waiting...

Semantics and legal issues are the reasons why we don't have any serious bitcoin legislation in place.

In US bitcoin is classified both as currency (by U.S. Treasury ) and commodity (by Commodity Futures Trading Commission).

How simple people can be smart when even pros have no idea what bitcoin really is?

Maybe the regulators should make a new category. Then in that category they should start from scratch and create new laws for it. If they will depend on the system they have now then there would be a lot of holes a lawyer could find. One good example is the man from Florida who was charged with money laundering using bitcoins. The judge dismissed his case because the judge declared that bitcoin is not real money. I think the judge did what he did because he does not want to make a mistake that will set a precedent in the upcoming money laundering cases involving bitcoin. It was way over his head.

Clement Kaliyar

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Bitcoin is indeed a currency and a property,you cannot clearly define bitcoin since it is intangible ,every country will define bitcoin according to what they seems fit.In my opinion all the cryptocurrencies should be treated as a commodity similar to gold and silver.

Topic: Currency v Property - page 7. (Read 5867 times)