Currently Best Means of Offline Storage?

Lucius

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Quote from: tutanxy on November 02, 2018, 04:57:19 PM

What wallet should i use as a begginer of bitcoin? which is the best for computer and for phone?

This thread is about long-term storage, and since you are just beginner you need something simple and for everyday use. I certainly recommend you to try Electrum for desktop and for smartphone, but be sure that your devices are clean from virus/malware threats, and that you download from official site.

Before installations I recommend you to read : https://electrum.readthedocs.io/en/latest/ and then use this link to download Electrum for your OS : https://electrum.org/#download

HCP

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Quote from: tutanxy on November 02, 2018, 04:57:19 PM

What wallet should i use as a begginer of bitcoin? which is the best for computer and for phone?

You can ask 10 different people and get 10 different answers... there is no one "best" solution for all users. Your particular use-case(s) will define which wallet(s) work best for you.

Try having a look here: https://bitcoin.org/en/choose-your-wallet

ranman09

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Quote from: tutanxy on November 02, 2018, 04:57:19 PM

What wallet should i use as a begginer of bitcoin? which is the best for computer and for phone?

When I was a beginner on bitcoin I use a mobile wallet. The free app electrum, you can check this out on play store. Before as a beginner on bitcoin, I don't have the fund to buy Ledger Nano S, though I really wanted it.

Now thanks to bounties, I had a ledger nano s and I like it, though I agree with some post here about using third party software. But I think it will be really hard for ledger to cope with all these new coins.

tutanxy

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What wallet should i use as a begginer of bitcoin? which is the best for computer and for phone?

Master1781

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Bitkey is currently a good and safe option for cold storage, based on Electrum and some other wallet generators: All open-source

https://bitkey.io

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There isn't really a "one-size fits all, best" solution for this... As with most things, you need to figure out what your specific requirements are.

For some people, "paper" wallets make the most sense. They don't want the expense of hardware wallets, are comfortable with the processes for securely creating/redeeming them, and safely storing them.

For others, who also want the ability to be able to spend coins occasionally, but still want secure storage and don't mind a little bit of extra cost, (or maybe are involved with multiple currencies) hardware wallets can be a great solution.

My advice is to specify your requirements, then find the solution that matches those requirements... asking "what is the best way to store cryptocurrencies?" will just result in 65326 different opinions on what is the best method! Tongue

Most of which probably don't apply to your specific requirements.

gentlemand

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If I was planning on parking coins for a long time I'd stick with paper. Hardware wallets throw up updates, change clients, go out of business and are abandoned like the Ledger Blue.

I don't find paper wallets a hassle myself. It's far less hassle than setting up a hardware wallet and noodling about with updates and setting pins and inputting seeds.

And I wouldn't bother with literal paper. I'd put the paper wallet in multiple encrypted folders on multiple storage devices and park them hither and thither.

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Quote from: bob123 on October 10, 2018, 04:20:20 AM

It is just that the only way to access the key is by being in range of a meter for less than a second.

NFC doesn't seem good idea especially now when car theft via intercepting radio signals from keys is on the rise. I think you could intercept NFC in similar way.

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Quote from: ranman09 on October 09, 2018, 08:52:13 AM

It's just that the only way to access the key is through a reader.

Let me rephrase this:

It is just that the only way to access the key is by being in range of a meter for less than a second.

IMO offline storage should be truly offline. No communication. No internet, WLAN, LAN, Bluetooth and also no NFC.
Either choose an old computer to achieve that or a paper wallet. There are no other ways i am aware of to achieve a (relatively convenient and still secure) cold storage.

ranman09

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Quote from: Avirunes on October 09, 2018, 08:34:59 AM

You can also try NFC based paper wallets or NFC based card for storage but it would require NFC reader/writer. Normally NFC is present in smartphones but if not then you might have to buy a hardware that reads and writes NFC chips but will cost you.

That's a nice idea. Are we also able to write seeds on the, sample a Mifare or Proximity card/Tags?

These mediums will last for years without people worrying about it. We can write here private keys with a passphrase, like what they do in paper wallets. It's just that the only way to access the key is through a reader.

Avirunes

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You can also try NFC based paper wallets or NFC based card for storage but it would require NFC reader/writer. Normally NFC is present in smartphones but if not then you might have to buy a hardware that reads and writes NFC chips but will cost you.

Lucius

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Quote from: pozmu on October 08, 2018, 02:27:38 PM

Quote from: Lucius on October 06, 2018, 04:59:09 AM

Paper wallets also have one more problem, ink can fade away with time if paper is not stored in proper way and we have such case some time ago in this forum when user ask how to recover missing characters from paper wallet. So if we go in this direction to save our private keys it is much better to use some more durable materials like steel or plastic and engrave private keys in them.

As for ink fading away with time I think you can buy special, military grade ball pens and notebooks that should be a lot more durable.

Quote

Regarding hardware wallets you missed very important thing and that is backup of seed - in fact the only thing that we need if device is broken is to have seed and then it is easy to make recovery. However we are back to paper again since most users will write down seed on paper, so key thing is how to protect paper of all possible external influences and from thieves. Only way is to not use it at all and problem is solved, and to protect from thieves every users need to use their imagination.

This does bother me too. In my country it's very difficult to rent bank storage like you see in the movies, I've even read it's something you inherit - they're that scarce, and that would be good place to keep seed backup and generally backups.
One of the ideas I have is to encrypt the backup. You could use offline computer to burn encrypted copy to a disc or pendrive or even write down encrypted version of it.

Problem with ink fading away really exists, but if paper is stored in a way that is protected from external influences (air, dust, heat) and if user do not touch that paper every day ink will last long enough. There is for sure more professional ways as you say, but such military stuff is not something you can buy just like that.

I would never trust bank storage to keep my backup, firstly because I do not like the banks (as well as many who support cryptocurrency), and second reason is that bank sef deposit box is not 100% safe - it can be robbed same as money in the bank with the difference that the bank will compensate the customer for stolen money, but content of the safe box is secret and can not be secured as such.

For all who use paper for backup of seed or private keys best solution is to make few copies, store them on different locations which will be checked from time to time.

pooya87

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Quote from: pozmu on October 08, 2018, 02:27:38 PM

Quote from: Lucius on October 06, 2018, 04:59:09 AM

Paper wallets also have one more problem, ink can fade away with time if paper is not stored in proper way and we have such case some time ago in this forum when user ask how to recover missing characters from paper wallet. So if we go in this direction to save our private keys it is much better to use some more durable materials like steel or plastic and engrave private keys in them.

As for ink fading away with time I think you can buy special, military grade ball pens and notebooks that should be a lot more durable.

you are not going to keep the paper for hundreds of years for the ink to fade and you usually use a decent quality paper and ink for that purpose so it won't simply fade away in a couple of years that is the average time for keeping a paper wallet. and if you are too worried you can either laminate it or simply stick a see through adhesive tape (i think the word is scotch in English?) on top of it. that would make it durable enough.

for an overkill and for creating something cool you can always use "engraving a metal plate". you can acquire a small stainless steel or aluminium place and engrave your key on it with etching (electro etch for example) or physically with chisel Wink

pozmu

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Quote from: Lucius on October 06, 2018, 04:59:09 AM

Paper wallets also have one more problem, ink can fade away with time if paper is not stored in proper way and we have such case some time ago in this forum when user ask how to recover missing characters from paper wallet. So if we go in this direction to save our private keys it is much better to use some more durable materials like steel or plastic and engrave private keys in them.

As for ink fading away with time I think you can buy special, military grade ball pens and notebooks that should be a lot more durable.

Quote

Regarding hardware wallets you missed very important thing and that is backup of seed - in fact the only thing that we need if device is broken is to have seed and then it is easy to make recovery. However we are back to paper again since most users will write down seed on paper, so key thing is how to protect paper of all possible external influences and from thieves. Only way is to not use it at all and problem is solved, and to protect from thieves every users need to use their imagination.

This does bother me too. In my country it's very difficult to rent bank storage like you see in the movies, I've even read it's something you inherit - they're that scarce, and that would be good place to keep seed backup and generally backups.
One of the ideas I have is to encrypt the backup. You could use offline computer to burn encrypted copy to a disc or pendrive or even write down encrypted version of it.

carlfebz2

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Quote from: pooya87 on October 06, 2018, 11:47:37 PM

Quote from: hulla on October 06, 2018, 08:02:23 AM

~
We think too much about the disadvantage, the possibility ink fading away from paper and thieves act we may discourage the newbie cause we both know that everything with advantages must have disadvantages. Meanwhile, both paper wallet and hardware wallet (trezor) are the best offline storage. Base on there capacity paper wallet is good for long term holding while hard ware are good for business people or trader who deal with cryptocurrency activities daily or weekly.

it is not that we are thinking about disadvantages or focusing on them alone. it is the fact that it is a good idea to know both advantages and disadvantages of different types of wallets that exist so that we can make an informed decision while knowing the possibilities.

Its just really a matter of preference on how a certain user will choose up among the two as long we do know its advantages and disadvantages then it shouldnt matter yet this is our choice by the way.
The important thing is that neither hardware or paper wallet just be sure on keeping these things into a secure place which you cant really easily forget.

pooya87

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Quote from: hulla on October 06, 2018, 08:02:23 AM

~
We think too much about the disadvantage, the possibility ink fading away from paper and thieves act we may discourage the newbie cause we both know that everything with advantages must have disadvantages. Meanwhile, both paper wallet and hardware wallet (trezor) are the best offline storage. Base on there capacity paper wallet is good for long term holding while hard ware are good for business people or trader who deal with cryptocurrency activities daily or weekly.

it is not that we are thinking about disadvantages or focusing on them alone. it is the fact that it is a good idea to know both advantages and disadvantages of different types of wallets that exist so that we can make an informed decision while knowing the possibilities.

hulla

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Quote from: Lucius on October 06, 2018, 04:59:09 AM

Quote from: pooya87 on October 05, 2018, 11:17:56 PM

Quote from: loopylou on October 05, 2018, 08:36:58 AM

Has either been exploited yet and deemed a greater risk? Or is there any newer alternatives that are safer and more user-friendly now?

the only way to "exploit" a paper wallet is if you use a fake software to generate it, do it on an unclean computer and finally if you are robbed (physically steal the paper)!

as i always say, there is no safe method available. there are only good methods each have their own pros and cons. for instance a hardware wallet is still a digital way of storing your coins. and as far as i know hardware wallets don't have any internal power like a battery. in other words it is similar to a flash drive and it an be susceptible to data loss if it is not connected to a power source (your computer USB port) for a long period of time. additionally it will be susceptible to damage and data loss like any other digital storage medium. not to mention that there can be bugs, flaws, security holes,... in it.

paper has its own downsides too. i mentioned the generation problems above. the same problems will be faced when trying to spend from a paper wallet. additionally paper is susceptible to damage from water, fire, air,...! also if you don't encrypt it, it would be easy to steal it.

Paper wallets also have one more problem, ink can fade away with time if paper is not stored in proper way and we have such case some time ago in this forum when user ask how to recover missing characters form paper wallet. So if we go in this direction to save our private keys it is much better to use some more durable materials like steel or plastic and engrave private keys in them.

Regarding hardware wallets you missed very important thing and that is backup of seed - in fact the only thing that we need if device is broken is to have seed and then it is easy to make recovery. However we are back to paper again since most users will write down seed on paper, so key thing is how to protect paper of all possible external influences and from thieves. Only way is to not use it at all and problem is solved, and to protect from thieves every users need to use their imagination.

We think too much about the disadvantage, the possibility ink fading away from paper and thieves act we may discourage the newbie cause we both know that everything with advantages must have disadvantages. Meanwhile, both paper wallet and hardware wallet (trezor) are the best offline storage. Base on there capacity paper wallet is good for long term holding while hard ware are good for business people or trader who deal with cryptocurrency activities daily or weekly.

Lucius

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Quote from: pooya87 on October 05, 2018, 11:17:56 PM

Quote from: loopylou on October 05, 2018, 08:36:58 AM

Has either been exploited yet and deemed a greater risk? Or is there any newer alternatives that are safer and more user-friendly now?

the only way to "exploit" a paper wallet is if you use a fake software to generate it, do it on an unclean computer and finally if you are robbed (physically steal the paper)!

as i always say, there is no safe method available. there are only good methods each have their own pros and cons. for instance a hardware wallet is still a digital way of storing your coins. and as far as i know hardware wallets don't have any internal power like a battery. in other words it is similar to a flash drive and it an be susceptible to data loss if it is not connected to a power source (your computer USB port) for a long period of time. additionally it will be susceptible to damage and data loss like any other digital storage medium. not to mention that there can be bugs, flaws, security holes,... in it.

paper has its own downsides too. i mentioned the generation problems above. the same problems will be faced when trying to spend from a paper wallet. additionally paper is susceptible to damage from water, fire, air,...! also if you don't encrypt it, it would be easy to steal it.

Paper wallets also have one more problem, ink can fade away with time if paper is not stored in proper way and we have such case some time ago in this forum when user ask how to recover missing characters from paper wallet. So if we go in this direction to save our private keys it is much better to use some more durable materials like steel or plastic and engrave private keys in them.

Regarding hardware wallets you missed very important thing and that is backup of seed - in fact the only thing that we need if device is broken is to have seed and then it is easy to make recovery. However we are back to paper again since most users will write down seed on paper, so key thing is how to protect paper of all possible external influences and from thieves. Only way is to not use it at all and problem is solved, and to protect from thieves every users need to use their imagination.

bob123

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Paper wallets and hardware wallets are both one of the most secured options to store your bitcoins.

Paper wallets are only suggested for long-term storage where you don't need to transact often.
Transacting with paper wallets is a pain. You need to import them to your (unsafe) computer, create the tx yourself and choose a change address (and back it up, nothing is don manually when using a paper wallet).

Hardware wallets can safely be regarded at the 'same' security level than paper wallets.
They store the private keys in an isolated environment which never leave the device.

The big advantage with hardware wallets is, that you can plug them in into online-pc's without having to worry about losing your coins.
You can transact daily, without running risk of losing your coins.

Hardware wallets are a pretty user-friendly way to securely store your coins.

pooya87

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Quote from: loopylou on October 05, 2018, 08:36:58 AM

Has either been exploited yet and deemed a greater risk? Or is there any newer alternatives that are safer and more user-friendly now?

the only way to "exploit" a paper wallet is if you use a fake software to generate it, do it on an unclean computer and finally if you are robbed (physically steal the paper)!

as i always say, there is no safe method available. there are only good methods each have their own pros and cons. for instance a hardware wallet is still a digital way of storing your coins. and as far as i know hardware wallets don't have any internal power like a battery. in other words it is similar to a flash drive and it an be susceptible to data loss if it is not connected to a power source (your computer USB port) for a long period of time. additionally it will be susceptible to damage and data loss like any other digital storage medium. not to mention that there can be bugs, flaws, security holes,... in it.

paper has its own downsides too. i mentioned the generation problems above. the same problems will be faced when trying to spend from a paper wallet. additionally paper is susceptible to damage from water, fire, air,...! also if you don't encrypt it, it would be easy to steal it.

Topic: Currently Best Means of Offline Storage? (Read 459 times)