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Topic: DASH Collapsing Monero UP - page 13. (Read 40376 times)

legendary
Activity: 1918
Merit: 1001
January 23, 2016, 10:24:32 PM
After learning that all my mined monero coins are practically unspendable because the pool paid me out in small amounts says alot about monero!

Its total crap if they cant design it to work with small amounts properly, never had this issue with BTC, NXT< NEM etc.

That problem was fixed almost two years ago.

It sucks that your coins got stuck in that manner but that's not an issue with the coin today.


Thats good to know its been fixed, i was only told that the pools stopped making micro transactions to miners as a workaround.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
January 23, 2016, 05:51:40 PM
After learning that all my mined monero coins are practically unspendable because the pool paid me out in small amounts says alot about monero!

Its total crap if they cant design it to work with small amounts properly, never had this issue with BTC, NXT< NEM etc.

That problem was fixed almost two years ago.

It sucks that your coins got stuck in that manner but that's not an issue with the coin today.
legendary
Activity: 1918
Merit: 1001
January 23, 2016, 05:42:11 PM
After learning that all my mined monero coins are practically unspendable because the pool paid me out in small amounts says alot about monero!

Its total crap if they cant design it to work with small amounts properly, never had this issue with BTC, NXT< NEM etc.


DASH is still an instamined scam though.
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 500
January 23, 2016, 09:44:01 AM
Well, I also think, that Monero is better than DASH  Wink DASH transaction network can have some problems or may be it is not yet developed  Wink
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
January 23, 2016, 04:44:52 AM
Evidence that Evan dumped 50K?

Inferred from the fact of his instamine and timing of his Evolution hype cycle.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
January 23, 2016, 04:36:37 AM
Evidence that Evan dumped 50K?
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
January 19, 2016, 03:18:45 PM
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 500
January 19, 2016, 11:17:12 AM
Monero is better than Dash, Dashcoin is not enough developed I think  Wink
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
January 19, 2016, 07:26:51 AM
I don't need to choose dash or moreno bought coins are good and have very strong communities. .
I have both of them right now and will sell on high..and again.
Just create some kind of alliance and promote together like ANON GROUP.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
January 18, 2016, 08:58:59 PM
looks like we are holding at 0.012 and something

Or not...



...and for my next trick, I'll be pumping Dash.

You pumped Dash into the ground.  Good job!
hero member
Activity: 744
Merit: 500
January 18, 2016, 04:03:07 PM
Eternal war between dash and xmr Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
January 18, 2016, 12:19:32 PM
Why we have here such antagonizam between Dash and Monero?
Can we see some cooperation in future? 
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
January 17, 2016, 12:44:25 PM
Holy shit ICEBREAKER... Really?  Roll Eyes

I get rideing on another currencies coat tails seems like a great marketing idea,  though it hasn't seemed to help thus far.  I would suggest instead marketing your currency by being transparent who the individuals are behind your currency and create a marketing/development budget to get the word out.

The amount of energy you guys spend on focusing on us is certainly flattering, but not productive for your currency.   

Like they say... The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
legendary
Activity: 2282
Merit: 1050
Monero Core Team
January 15, 2016, 10:02:12 PM
...

Very well put. The primary regulatory risk for a crypro currency in the United States comes from FinCEN when that crypto currecny does not meet the definition of:
Quote
c. De-Centralized Virtual Currencies

A final type of convertible virtual currency activity involves a de-centralized convertible virtual currency (1) that has no central repository and no single administrator, and (2) that persons may obtain by their own computing or manufacturing effort.
as per the FinCEN guidance https://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001.html. It does not come from the SEC.

Strict POW coins where the emission is only generated by mining such as Bitcoin, Dogecoin, Litecoin, Monero etc., likely fall into the de-centralized convertible virtual currency category. Anything with a pre-mine or distribution by a centralized source will likely fall in to the centralized convertible virtual currency category and would require registration as an MSB.

As for Dash the key question in my mind is: Do the Masternode operators have to register as MSBs? This is far from clear since in many ways Dash straddles between the centralized and de-centralized convertible virtual currency categories. The status of Dash here is far from clear and would likely require getting a ruling from FinCEN.
legendary
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
December 21, 2015, 02:32:50 PM
And again I have studied the SEC regulations and all these marketing to speculators is clearly a violation of the Howey test for being an unregistered illegal investment security.

Okay, I'm going to step in at this point. For the record, I don't own any DASH and I never have: not even in the days when it was Darkcoin. I've also been an interested but apathetic spectator when it comes to this Hatfield-McCoy feud between the DASHers and the Moneroites. Further for the record, I do own a tiny haunch of AEON. Pecuniary-wise, I'd have to be counted as a very minor 'McCoy', but my AEON holdings are worth less than a tank of gasoline.

A-mint has brought up the Howey test before, and I thank him for it. We need people like him to do so, even if (in this case) I think he's misguided. It's clear that he zeroed in on an issue that gets to the heart of what open-source means.  

First of all, for everyone, here are the four criteria of the Howey Test from this source (which jibes with Wikipedia):

Quote from: Nick Reuter
An investment contract under the Howey Test was defined as follows:

1. an investment of money due to
2. an expectation of profits arising from
3. a common enterprise
4. which depends solely on the efforts of a promoter or third party

What this meant for J. Howey, and for all real estate investors in the future, was that anytime you're searching for investors, no matter if the investor goes on the deed or has a mortgage, if the investor is relying on you to make their profits you are considered to be selling a security. The Howey Test set the standard for securities laws in raising money for real estate investments.

Now, the paragraph below the list is a common-sensical way of summing it up for the real-estate-investment community. But for a cryptocurrency, it's misplaced and it's important to know why.

I can certainly see the SEC hauling in a cryptocurrency dev team on Howey-Test grounds by good ol' reasoning-by-analogy. But if they do - unless the cryptocurrency has clearly been designed to be a security and nothing more - I'd fight like hell in any public venue that would have me. And the grounds I'd be fighting on pertain to #4: "which depends solely on the efforts of a promoter or third party."

"which depends solely on the efforts of a promoter or third party." That solely flat-out contradicts the open-source nature of cryptocurrency - not in the sense of the underlying tech, but in the sense of the open-source nature of a cryptocurrency's ecosystem and value growth. In order for a grass-roots cryptocurrency to grow in value, there have to be independent actors building value by layering services on top of the crypto. It could be something as rinky-dinky as someone offering to sell his Etsyeque creations for a cryptocurrency, but even rinkity-dinkity actions like that cohere to the open-source ecosystem vision. Even if they add zero demand for the cryptocurrency, they're priceless in terms of effort. Why? because they're living examples of the open-source nature of ecosystem growth.

The Supreme Court decided the way it did because J. Howey & Co. actively discouraged independent efforts in their promotional materials. Put another way, J. Howey & Co. actively encouraged the buyers of their orange-grove lots to sit on their behinds and leave the profit-gathering to J. Howey et. al. as managers. With respect to the typical cryptocurrency, that part of the test is either inapplicable or the diametrical opposite. Which dev team would not be delighted if a business-savvy independent built a viable business using the dev team's cryptocurrency? This is the equivalent of J. Howey asking the buyers of his land to manage the orange groves independently and share any orange-growing tricks they come up with. Had he done that, I don't see how he could have lost his case.

If the SEC wins a Howey-Test case against a cryptocurrency, it will have succeeded in ramming a spike through the brain of the entire altcoin space. After a decision like that, us altcoineers will be essentially condemned to being the Phineas Gages of fintech: running around in a short-term way playing with our digitized answer to penny stocks. The dream of building a new economy through independent efforts will have been squished to death by that iron spike.

Let me give an example of how different the altcoin ecosystem is from the regular business world. Some time ago, I walked to a Home Depot outlet early in the morning to take photos of the goods they had on their shelves. I came across their Internet affiliate program and got the idea that I could use their shelf-stock as underlying data to build a better Website and/or app: it would have paid for itself by affiliate sales. This endeavour started off well - I hit it off with at least one member of the floor staff - until I bumped into a rule-enforcing kind of gal employee who told me that I was not allowed to take pictures of the stock because I wasn't an employee. I was actually surprised, surprised enough to look at her blankly before explaining that I was collaborating with Home Depot. I was only taking pictures so as to take quickie "notes" on what their stock was, for the purpose of driving more folks to spend money on Home Depot's goods. That chivvying moved her not at all; she replied that she had asked the store manager and he had backed her up. "Company policy." She did say I could write Home Depot's corporate office to ask for special permission. So I did, and I never got back a reply.

This little experience of mine shows how profoundly different the space 'round here is from the regular listed-company world. I've been so long in this space, hearing "corporate policy means you can't do such-and-such" actually baffled me for a moment. "Whut? I'm tryin' ta help ya out here."

Had Home Depot had a cryptocurrencyesque management, the store manager would have clapped me on the back and encouraged me! Even if that idea of mine sunk into the netherworld of unpopular affiliate Sites, whose nether is legion, he still would have given me props for trying.

Okay: I know that very few people do take matters into their own hands with respect to building ecosystems. We're all creatures of habit, even us altcoineers, so naturally we've all fallen into the habit of seeing and treating an altcoin as if it were a penny stock: a vehicle which first you plop your money into and then sit on your duff waiting for a capital gain. I'm like that myself; I really am. I admit it.

But habits can be broken, albeit slowly. Getting over them, hard as it is to do, is much, much easier than it is to break a mandate from a regulatory agency designed to monitor stocks & bonds exerting its authority over something new and profoundly, if subtly, different than the instruments which that agency was designed to oversee.

That's why - even if the SEC landed on a questionable cryptocurrency using the Howey Test as its theory - I'd fight it like hell in the "court of public opinion" unless it were a Paycoin-like scam - one where the dev make a promise that was supposed to be made good from his own funds - or a Ponzi scheme where the dev claimed a backing that wasn't there. Both of these cases are so obviously similar to penny-stock crookery, the SEC can do what it pleases with those jokers as far as I'm concerned. I'd just stand up if they went after a real cryptocurrency, even a questionable one, whose value-growth depends upon independent action even if incentivized. That type of crackdown would crush the independent-action value-growth track of cryptocurrency's unique "open-source ecosystem" growth.

Granted, it's a hard vision for even us folks to pick up and assimilate. It took me a long time for my old speculator's habits to erode to the point where I could "see" the ecosystem vision. But the point is, there's no regulation or mandate that forbids me from not only "seeing" it but also pitching in. If the SEC wins one of those against-the-crypto-vision cases, there will be.

Like many of my posts here, this is prolly half-baked: with respect to semantic content, I'm not a good self-editor. But I hope it's baked enough to get this very important point across: The open-source nature of cryptocurrency ecosystems means that a cryptocurrency is not a listed company. Treating it so in law would fatally cripple its "brain."

In closing, to A-mint, I want to say: "I disagree with what you said, but I'm damn glad you said it!" This overhanging issue needs to be tackled before we-all get snarled up into trouble.

----------

EDIT: X-posted here for the benefit of americanpegasus.     
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
December 20, 2015, 07:19:14 PM
...

Just stating the facts, ma'am.

"Facts" that are irrelevant to the debate.

I know, its the core principle by which the Maneurians spread their feces, ahem, gospel.

If Manuero was based on technical premise alone, it wouldn't even be discussed here.

Its just the same handful of desperate retards that have decided to use their precious hours on planet earth trying to swindle their fellow man 24/7.

So what are the technical weaknesses of Monero, nutilduh?

We've discussed the weaknesses of dash: the algorithm(s), the instamine, darksend, the fallacy of decentralized goverance where a few probably hold an inordinate amount of coins thanks to an instamine and the lowering of emissions shortly thereafter (I may have missed one or two).


Over a month and Nutilda hasn't retorted but ran away.  


Cheesy typical bullshit around here.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
December 20, 2015, 06:30:40 PM
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
December 06, 2015, 12:43:48 AM
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
December 05, 2015, 11:11:21 PM
Worst Idea Ever: Darkcoin to Dashcoin re-brand



2nd Worst Idea Ever: Evolusham



DarkDash  Embarrassed

Evolusham  Cry
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
December 05, 2015, 11:06:24 PM
The market reaction to Dash's Evolusham speaks for itself:



The so-called "whitepapers" are actually content-free, buzz-word heavy marketing brochures.

Gotta make dem sales!

That's what Dash is...a sales pitch.
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