Okay so if that is the case, then wouldn't that mean i need btc to either stay the same price or go lower than when i bought lisk and it goes up from 5 to 6 dollars?
So wouldn't that mean buying lisk at 5 dollars and it going up to 8 dollars could still mean losing money if btc went up a lot?
Well the thing is im planning to get btc sole for investing in altcoins. And i definitely look at the altcoin price though. So if i don't look at the altcoin price, then wouldn't it mean i need btc to stay the same or go down? Thus if you buy lisk at 5 dollars and bought 1000 lisk... assuming btc drops and lisk stays the same price.. then you sell the lisk, then you profit? Also then what is exactly the point of these altcoins having a usd price then if you are not suppose to compare it to dollars.
Topic: Daytraders Questions... Calculating Trading Profit and Locking In Profits - page 3. (Read 1150 times)
November 19, 2017, 02:28:25 AM
November 19, 2017, 02:14:45 AM
The problem is here:
"Thus i want to sell it once lisk hits 6 dollars"
You do not get to sell your lisk for dollars. You sell it for BTC. When you put in your sell order you do not enter dollars, only BTC.
So in your example with BTC = $7838, then $6 is 0.0007656 BTC. You could sell when lisk hits 0.0007656 BTC. Of course by that time then BTC could go up or down and 0.0007656 BTC is no longer worth $6, it could be $5 or $8. Its a moving target when trying to compare BTC and Dollars.
With altcoins your mindset needs to change from thinking in dollars to only thinking in Bitcoin. Everything is measured against Bitcoin. You never want to sell your lisk for less BTC than you purchased it for otherwise it would have been better to just hold your BTC rather than trade.
orion
"Thus i want to sell it once lisk hits 6 dollars"
You do not get to sell your lisk for dollars. You sell it for BTC. When you put in your sell order you do not enter dollars, only BTC.
So in your example with BTC = $7838, then $6 is 0.0007656 BTC. You could sell when lisk hits 0.0007656 BTC. Of course by that time then BTC could go up or down and 0.0007656 BTC is no longer worth $6, it could be $5 or $8. Its a moving target when trying to compare BTC and Dollars.
With altcoins your mindset needs to change from thinking in dollars to only thinking in Bitcoin. Everything is measured against Bitcoin. You never want to sell your lisk for less BTC than you purchased it for otherwise it would have been better to just hold your BTC rather than trade.
orion
November 19, 2017, 01:40:04 AM
Can someone comment on this? I like to know how to do this before i daytrade. Thus i don't want to know after i bought lisk at 5 dollars and then sold lisk at 6 dollars, i got no profit at all because btc went up too high etc.
November 18, 2017, 07:54:50 PM
Well assuming i start off with 1.28 btc in my bittrex account. If i want to buy 5k worth of lisk at 5 dollars each... isn't that half my btc balance so 0.64 btc since 1.28 btc is 10000 usd?
Yes i know the fees are 0.25%. So where am i calculating it wrong? If i buy 1000 lisk at 5 dollars each... thats about 5000 usd. The 0.25 percent fee would be $12.50. So i paid $5012.50 for the 1000 lisk... or 0.64 btc. Am i right or not on this? I don't know how im incorrect on this. I also do not know where you get i mention 64%? I meant after i buy 1000 lisk... my btc balance would show 0.64 btc approximately.
Yes i know the trading fees which is 0.25% isn't much at all. Can you or anyone else here look at my math again? Im positive that this part of the math i am correct here. What im confused here is with locking profits etc and how to do it.
Yes i know the fees are 0.25%. So where am i calculating it wrong? If i buy 1000 lisk at 5 dollars each... thats about 5000 usd. The 0.25 percent fee would be $12.50. So i paid $5012.50 for the 1000 lisk... or 0.64 btc. Am i right or not on this? I don't know how im incorrect on this. I also do not know where you get i mention 64%? I meant after i buy 1000 lisk... my btc balance would show 0.64 btc approximately.
Yes i know the trading fees which is 0.25% isn't much at all. Can you or anyone else here look at my math again? Im positive that this part of the math i am correct here. What im confused here is with locking profits etc and how to do it.
November 18, 2017, 07:27:27 PM
November 18, 2017, 07:09:24 PM
Okay then what do most daytraders do here then with the btc they receive from selling lisk? Do they just hold the btc and wait for btc in price to go higher? Or do they immediately sell it for usdt? Then use that usdt to either buy more btc or cash out to their bank account? Or do they send it to gdax/gemini immediately and sell that amount of btc profit to their bank account?
You say you can lose in terms of btc if btc price went up when you're trading it. Can you explain to me exactly what you mean by that? You mean if during that time btc price went up from say 7837.34 to like 10000 or something like that... and thats when you sold your lisk when it hits 6 dollars to lock in your 972.50 profit... well the amount of btc you would receive when btc price is 10000... is going to be less than the 0.64 btc you originally used to buy lisk? Thus you might only get back 0.60 btc or 0.50 btc if btc prices goes high? So the opposite is true.. if btc prices goes below 7837.34, then you would make more profit since the btc you receive would be a lot more than 0.64 btc etc?
The thing is so if i lisk goes up 1 dollar and sell you for 972.50 profit, you would still be up money right? But you would have less btc because btc price went up? So wouldn't that mean once you sell a coin once it hits your target price profit, IMMEDIATELY sell it for either USDT or immediately send it to gdax/gemini and cash it out to your bank account? And when you do this, its going to be whatever btc $972.50 is right at that moment? Or am i wrong here? Because people say the goal of trading altcoins was to get more bitcoins. But if your lisk goes up and you sell it for profit but btc also go up, then there is chance you get less btc that you invested in to buying lisk which is 0.64 lisk used to buy lisk. Can you explain it a bit more or any other daytrader can? This is the reason why i haven't daytraded yet because im still confused with this because if everything was invested against usd or usdt as they put it, that would be easy to calculate. Because if i own btc... and also want to invest in altcoins... well i obviously want btc price to go up as i am holding it. But those altcoins i obviously want it to go up since im planning to daytrade. But if btc goes up and lisk goes up, i get lesser btc that i invested which makes me very confused here.
Because if anyone here daytrades altcoins, wouldn't that mean it might be better to get rid of all their bitcoins? Because many people say investing in altcoins is basically betting against bitcoin. But i have bitcoin and will not sell it because it seems to be doing good. But i also want to invest in altcoin for daytrading profits.
So can you or any experienced daytrader explain this to me?
You say you can lose in terms of btc if btc price went up when you're trading it. Can you explain to me exactly what you mean by that? You mean if during that time btc price went up from say 7837.34 to like 10000 or something like that... and thats when you sold your lisk when it hits 6 dollars to lock in your 972.50 profit... well the amount of btc you would receive when btc price is 10000... is going to be less than the 0.64 btc you originally used to buy lisk? Thus you might only get back 0.60 btc or 0.50 btc if btc prices goes high? So the opposite is true.. if btc prices goes below 7837.34, then you would make more profit since the btc you receive would be a lot more than 0.64 btc etc?
The thing is so if i lisk goes up 1 dollar and sell you for 972.50 profit, you would still be up money right? But you would have less btc because btc price went up? So wouldn't that mean once you sell a coin once it hits your target price profit, IMMEDIATELY sell it for either USDT or immediately send it to gdax/gemini and cash it out to your bank account? And when you do this, its going to be whatever btc $972.50 is right at that moment? Or am i wrong here? Because people say the goal of trading altcoins was to get more bitcoins. But if your lisk goes up and you sell it for profit but btc also go up, then there is chance you get less btc that you invested in to buying lisk which is 0.64 lisk used to buy lisk. Can you explain it a bit more or any other daytrader can? This is the reason why i haven't daytraded yet because im still confused with this because if everything was invested against usd or usdt as they put it, that would be easy to calculate. Because if i own btc... and also want to invest in altcoins... well i obviously want btc price to go up as i am holding it. But those altcoins i obviously want it to go up since im planning to daytrade. But if btc goes up and lisk goes up, i get lesser btc that i invested which makes me very confused here.
Because if anyone here daytrades altcoins, wouldn't that mean it might be better to get rid of all their bitcoins? Because many people say investing in altcoins is basically betting against bitcoin. But i have bitcoin and will not sell it because it seems to be doing good. But i also want to invest in altcoin for daytrading profits.
So can you or any experienced daytrader explain this to me?
November 18, 2017, 06:43:43 PM
The deposit part is okay, the buying lisk part is also okay. Getting the profit and conversations are true. After you sell them for $6 each, you will have your balance as BTC, because there is no LISK/USDT market on bittrex. This means, you may make profit in terms of USDT, but you may be in the loss in terms of BTC if BTC price went up while you're trading it.
November 18, 2017, 06:25:49 PM
I am planning to use bittrex to trade altcoins. I would first get bitcoin first as i need btc to buy altcoins.
So i have a question on this and want to know if im doing it right.
Let say I have $10000 in btc.
Btc = 7837.34 usd now
1.28 btc = 10000 usd
I send that 1.28 btc to bittrex. Lets just make it simple and say i want to buy lisk and its worth $5. I know its much more than that now but i like to make it simple. Let say i want to buy 1000 lisk so $5000 plus fees. I know bittrex fees are 0.25%. So that means buying 1000 lisk would cost me $5000 + $12.50 = $5012.50. This is correct right? So basically now my bittrex btc balance is around half which is 0.64 btc? To make it simple i ignored the sending btc fee to bittrex.
So let say my goal is to sell it once i make 20 percent profit. Thus i want to sell it once lisk hits 6 dollars. Say lisk hits 6 dollars. I then sell all of it for $6000 - $15 = $5985. So in this situation I made $5985 - $5012.50 = $972.50. Is that correct or not?
So once I sell the lisk on bittrex, I'm getting back btc right since lisk is paired with btc and most altcoins are not paired with usd or usdt as they put it? So here is what confuses me. At that moment i will get paid whatever amount btc = $5985 right? However... isn't it a good chance that i might not get more than 0.64 btc that i originally used to buy lisk assuming btc price went up as well? Like for example at that moment i bought lisk with my btc... $5012.50 is about 0.64 btc at that moment. But now... when i trade $5985 worth of lisk for btc... couldn't i get even less than 0.64 btc? Thus even though i made a profit of $972.50 in my example buying lisk and then selling lisk... i might get back 0.60 btc only and now my btc balance is only 0.64 btc +0.60 btc = 1.24 btc? Or is there something wrong with what im calculating here? I do know when you are investing in altcoins, you are basically betting against bitcoin. But here in my example, well you need btc in order to buy altcoins almost all the time since theres maybe 10 coins that are paired against usd or usdt?
And if my calculation is wrong, can someone tell me where is my calculation wrong?
Because i believe the profit i calculated is right here. And if it is right, how do i make sure to lock in these profits? I know you realized $972.50 in profit here. But say you dont sell the $972.50 worth of btc now... and wait... well btc price drops... that $972.50 profit could only be $800 or less etc right? Or is my logic wrong here? I want to know from daytraders on this as i know daytraders mostly buy low and sell high and make lot of these transactions. Thus if your goal for lisk is 20 percent profit of 5000 dollars invested and your goal is to make about 1000 dollars on buying lisk minus the buy/sell fees of 27.50 for a total profit of $972.50... are you suppose to immediately send that exact profit $972.50 worth of btc OR WOULD IT BE THE BTC DIFFERENCE between the 1.28 btc you started with and what you have now... and then send it immediately to gdax or gemini and sell it to them and then you lock that $972.50 in profit immediately to your bank account?
The thing is if everything was paired with USD, then it would be very easy to calculate/profits and losses. I know bittrex has usdt but that is only paired with btc and not many other coins. So the other thing is would daytraders instead of sending it to gdax or gemini... they immediately turn that btc into USDT? That way their profits are locked since you have usdt? I know usdt is around 1 dollar but it cannot be a little less or more. But i read its still an altcoin. So i want to know exactly how daytraders lock in their profit after they lock in their profit from one coin. And most importantly, is it even possible to have a lesser btc balance after buying lisk at 5 dollars and selling it at 6 dollars depending on the btc price. Because this is very confusing to me.
So i have a question on this and want to know if im doing it right.
Let say I have $10000 in btc.
Btc = 7837.34 usd now
1.28 btc = 10000 usd
I send that 1.28 btc to bittrex. Lets just make it simple and say i want to buy lisk and its worth $5. I know its much more than that now but i like to make it simple. Let say i want to buy 1000 lisk so $5000 plus fees. I know bittrex fees are 0.25%. So that means buying 1000 lisk would cost me $5000 + $12.50 = $5012.50. This is correct right? So basically now my bittrex btc balance is around half which is 0.64 btc? To make it simple i ignored the sending btc fee to bittrex.
So let say my goal is to sell it once i make 20 percent profit. Thus i want to sell it once lisk hits 6 dollars. Say lisk hits 6 dollars. I then sell all of it for $6000 - $15 = $5985. So in this situation I made $5985 - $5012.50 = $972.50. Is that correct or not?
So once I sell the lisk on bittrex, I'm getting back btc right since lisk is paired with btc and most altcoins are not paired with usd or usdt as they put it? So here is what confuses me. At that moment i will get paid whatever amount btc = $5985 right? However... isn't it a good chance that i might not get more than 0.64 btc that i originally used to buy lisk assuming btc price went up as well? Like for example at that moment i bought lisk with my btc... $5012.50 is about 0.64 btc at that moment. But now... when i trade $5985 worth of lisk for btc... couldn't i get even less than 0.64 btc? Thus even though i made a profit of $972.50 in my example buying lisk and then selling lisk... i might get back 0.60 btc only and now my btc balance is only 0.64 btc +0.60 btc = 1.24 btc? Or is there something wrong with what im calculating here? I do know when you are investing in altcoins, you are basically betting against bitcoin. But here in my example, well you need btc in order to buy altcoins almost all the time since theres maybe 10 coins that are paired against usd or usdt?
And if my calculation is wrong, can someone tell me where is my calculation wrong?
Because i believe the profit i calculated is right here. And if it is right, how do i make sure to lock in these profits? I know you realized $972.50 in profit here. But say you dont sell the $972.50 worth of btc now... and wait... well btc price drops... that $972.50 profit could only be $800 or less etc right? Or is my logic wrong here? I want to know from daytraders on this as i know daytraders mostly buy low and sell high and make lot of these transactions. Thus if your goal for lisk is 20 percent profit of 5000 dollars invested and your goal is to make about 1000 dollars on buying lisk minus the buy/sell fees of 27.50 for a total profit of $972.50... are you suppose to immediately send that exact profit $972.50 worth of btc OR WOULD IT BE THE BTC DIFFERENCE between the 1.28 btc you started with and what you have now... and then send it immediately to gdax or gemini and sell it to them and then you lock that $972.50 in profit immediately to your bank account?
The thing is if everything was paired with USD, then it would be very easy to calculate/profits and losses. I know bittrex has usdt but that is only paired with btc and not many other coins. So the other thing is would daytraders instead of sending it to gdax or gemini... they immediately turn that btc into USDT? That way their profits are locked since you have usdt? I know usdt is around 1 dollar but it cannot be a little less or more. But i read its still an altcoin. So i want to know exactly how daytraders lock in their profit after they lock in their profit from one coin. And most importantly, is it even possible to have a lesser btc balance after buying lisk at 5 dollars and selling it at 6 dollars depending on the btc price. Because this is very confusing to me.
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