Dealing with tax and crypto ban - page 3.

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Quote from: gantez on January 31, 2022, 03:07:11 PM

Quote from: TribalBob on January 30, 2022, 04:25:40 PM

Quote from: Darker45 on January 28, 2022, 11:19:30 PM

Although dealing with crypto and Bitcoin and their related industries such as exchanges, mining farms, and so on is not just purely about a question of tax or ban, the fact that the government would not only be embracing what's latest in financial technology but also profits from it in more ways than one, makes it more inclined to accept it than not.

However, there are countries which are focusing more on the possible negative effects of Bitcoin rather than the positive ones, and they give more weight to this than the revenue that they could potentially gain.

until this moment I still don't know what the negative impact of bitcoin itself is, hasn't bitcoin so far provided many advantages for its owners, especially financial freedom,
but if one country bans bitcoin why is there still a tax? what is the tax for?

I really not seeing the negative side of bitcoin and the countries coming against it are doing that for selfish reasons. Bitcoin is talking of financial freedom for everyone both the people and the government. The government can transact fast and monitor theft through blockchain. The corruption in fiat will not be there in blockchain and this is why they don't look at using bitcoin.

Some government are against with it because it is decentralized, meaning, they won't have full control of what's going on in the crypto market. This is why most governments are sticking to their fiat system because it is centralized. But for some governments, they are open to accept the crypto market. They can regulate it by charging taxes on crypto businesses. They may not see the whole picture of the market under their jurisdiction but at least they can get something out of it. But for some, they are totally banning it and not allowing their constituents to deal with crypto. But are they sure that the total ban will make their crypto users not deal with crypto? There are so many ways now how to get around the total ban.

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Quote from: TribalBob on January 30, 2022, 04:25:40 PM

Quote from: Darker45 on January 28, 2022, 11:19:30 PM

Although dealing with crypto and Bitcoin and their related industries such as exchanges, mining farms, and so on is not just purely about a question of tax or ban, the fact that the government would not only be embracing what's latest in financial technology but also profits from it in more ways than one, makes it more inclined to accept it than not.

However, there are countries which are focusing more on the possible negative effects of Bitcoin rather than the positive ones, and they give more weight to this than the revenue that they could potentially gain.

until this moment I still don't know what the negative impact of bitcoin itself is, hasn't bitcoin so far provided many advantages for its owners, especially financial freedom,
but if one country bans bitcoin why is there still a tax? what is the tax for?

I really not seeing the negative side of bitcoin and the countries coming against it are doing that for selfish reasons. Bitcoin is talking of financial freedom for everyone both the people and the government. The government can transact fast and monitor theft through blockchain. The corruption in fiat will not be there in blockchain and this is why they don't look at using bitcoin.

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Quote from: Darker45 on January 31, 2022, 03:42:41 AM

Quote from: TribalBob on January 30, 2022, 04:25:40 PM

Quote from: Darker45 on January 28, 2022, 11:19:30 PM

Although dealing with crypto and Bitcoin and their related industries such as exchanges, mining farms, and so on is not just purely about a question of tax or ban, the fact that the government would not only be embracing what's latest in financial technology but also profits from it in more ways than one, makes it more inclined to accept it than not.

However, there are countries which are focusing more on the possible negative effects of Bitcoin rather than the positive ones, and they give more weight to this than the revenue that they could potentially gain.

until this moment I still don't know what the negative impact of bitcoin itself is, hasn't bitcoin so far provided many advantages for its owners, especially financial freedom,
but if one country bans bitcoin why is there still a tax? what is the tax for?

The impacts of Bitcoin are not just limited to its owners. Bitcoin has an impact to the government and its agencies, to the banking industry, to the business sector, and so on. It has its impact to law enforcement agencies, to monetary and financial agencies, to regulatory agencies, and so on. So what may be good to Bitcoin holders may not be the same to the police, for example, or to the central bank or to Western Union. A decentralized currency has a negative impact to a highly centralized government system.

Anyway, is there a country that bans and taxes Bitcoin at the same time?

Taxation, big thing that makes governments think much about the usage of cryptocurrencies. Till date more countries have regulated the usage and has taxed cryptocurrency purchase. But, to what extent this is found to be effective is unknown. From my understanding governments isn't getting any big revenue out of it, which makes way for such bans.

Some governments have added it along with gold. Some have imposed taxes, but there will be always a way to skip it. So crypto ban and taxation of cryptocurrency isn't going to be effective now and forever. Only the cryptocurrency developers need to think of some blockchain to streamline the taxation based on holdings.

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Quote from: wxa7115 on January 31, 2022, 01:25:31 PM

Quote from: tippytoes on January 29, 2022, 06:50:54 PM

In time, the government will see the benefits to its citizens. For those who can earn money via this industry, they will not be a burden of their government and I hope, someday these countries banning the use of crypto will be enlightened that somehow this market is helping their citizens to uplift their standards of living. Because most people are not receiving any benefits from their government so they need to find ways to survive.

They do not care, politicians pay lip service about caring about their citizens but do they actually care about them? Of course not, they care about the benefits they can get to themselves and nothing more.

So when they see bitcoin, they do not see a tool for their citizens to use and try to improve their lives, they see a tool that reduces their power and their ability to control their population, and when we think of things this way it is understandable that many politicians still have a very negative view about bitcoin and this market in general.

Fact!

This is why it isnt surprising that government would be always be having that kind of views and perception or impressions towards crypto since they couldnt really see things that would benefit them but instead they would really be losing off total control when it comes to financial matters specially into its citizens.

You would really able to expect on what they would potentially do which if you do go on bigger picture then its not really shocking anymore and how to deal with it?

With having that decentralized market then you could still able to deal with it not minding much about this matter.

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Quote from: tippytoes on January 29, 2022, 06:50:54 PM

In time, the government will see the benefits to its citizens. For those who can earn money via this industry, they will not be a burden of their government and I hope, someday these countries banning the use of crypto will be enlightened that somehow this market is helping their citizens to uplift their standards of living. Because most people are not receiving any benefits from their government so they need to find ways to survive.

They do not care, politicians pay lip service about caring about their citizens but do they actually care about them? Of course not, they care about the benefits they can get to themselves and nothing more.

So when they see bitcoin, they do not see a tool for their citizens to use and try to improve their lives, they see a tool that reduces their power and their ability to control their population, and when we think of things this way it is understandable that many politicians still have a very negative view about bitcoin and this market in general.

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Quote from: TribalBob on January 30, 2022, 04:25:40 PM

Quote from: Darker45 on January 28, 2022, 11:19:30 PM

Although dealing with crypto and Bitcoin and their related industries such as exchanges, mining farms, and so on is not just purely about a question of tax or ban, the fact that the government would not only be embracing what's latest in financial technology but also profits from it in more ways than one, makes it more inclined to accept it than not.

However, there are countries which are focusing more on the possible negative effects of Bitcoin rather than the positive ones, and they give more weight to this than the revenue that they could potentially gain.

until this moment I still don't know what the negative impact of bitcoin itself is, hasn't bitcoin so far provided many advantages for its owners, especially financial freedom,
but if one country bans bitcoin why is there still a tax? what is the tax for?

If one country bans bitcoin, the tax comes from the other businesses and not from bitcoin but I am not sure if they apply tax for a crypto user because they ban bitcoin while their people can't use bitcoin freely. I don't think much about the negative impact of bitcoin because I only see the positive impact of bitcoin for me, my friends, and people around me who use bitcoin. We hope that if the government applies taxes for crypto users, they will use normal taxes amount and not too high because not all crypto users are a whale and many of them are still struggling to earn money from crypto.

AicecreaME

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Quote from: doomloop on January 27, 2022, 04:29:17 PM

I do not understand the need for countries to send crypto miners away, China did it, and that was a big mistake. Imagine a whole lot of business, where people pay you tons of electricity, maybe hire some staff, and then earn a lot of money all within your nation. Is it possible for them to take that money out of the nation and into some other nation? Of course, but that is up to you to convince them to spend it there.

All in all, they are a business and you should be happy to have as many business' as possible all around the nation. That's how you make money as a nation, you get taxes and the more you get taxes the richer your nation will become and sending these companies away only drops the taxes you can collect, makes no sense.

China has to stop crypto mining for environmental reasons. It could be a mistake from others' perspectives, but I think it is not really a loss to them if they are really after the welfare of the planet. Although economically speaking, crypto mining and all other things related to crypto that has been banned have a really big impact on the economy. The taxation of crypto in the centralized exchangers in China is a great loss for them. Although I bet they already thought of this before implementing the banning, hence, they pushed through with it despite the possible repercussions. After all, it's not all about money every single time. Maybe some of their officials have this set of beliefs and principles that they uphold which weigh more than just the satisfaction and money they will generate from crypto mining. Because knowing mining, it consumes a lot of energy which is known to be non-renewable. With that, a lot of energy are being consumed, therefore, a lot of coals are being used as well, resulting in more pollution. I've read as well that the country China is planning to be carbon neutral by the next 18 years which is 2060. So, maybe they really are taking the small steps right now so that withdrawal by then won't be as hard.

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Quote from: TribalBob on January 30, 2022, 04:25:40 PM

Quote from: Darker45 on January 28, 2022, 11:19:30 PM

Although dealing with crypto and Bitcoin and their related industries such as exchanges, mining farms, and so on is not just purely about a question of tax or ban, the fact that the government would not only be embracing what's latest in financial technology but also profits from it in more ways than one, makes it more inclined to accept it than not.

However, there are countries which are focusing more on the possible negative effects of Bitcoin rather than the positive ones, and they give more weight to this than the revenue that they could potentially gain.

until this moment I still don't know what the negative impact of bitcoin itself is, hasn't bitcoin so far provided many advantages for its owners, especially financial freedom,
but if one country bans bitcoin why is there still a tax? what is the tax for?

The impacts of Bitcoin are not just limited to its owners. Bitcoin has an impact to the government and its agencies, to the banking industry, to the business sector, and so on. It has its impact to law enforcement agencies, to monetary and financial agencies, to regulatory agencies, and so on. So what may be good to Bitcoin holders may not be the same to the police, for example, or to the central bank or to Western Union. A decentralized currency has a negative impact to a highly centralized government system.

Anyway, is there a country that bans and taxes Bitcoin at the same time?

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Quote from: Darker45 on January 28, 2022, 11:19:30 PM

Although dealing with crypto and Bitcoin and their related industries such as exchanges, mining farms, and so on is not just purely about a question of tax or ban, the fact that the government would not only be embracing what's latest in financial technology but also profits from it in more ways than one, makes it more inclined to accept it than not.

However, there are countries which are focusing more on the possible negative effects of Bitcoin rather than the positive ones, and they give more weight to this than the revenue that they could potentially gain.

until this moment I still don't know what the negative impact of bitcoin itself is, hasn't bitcoin so far provided many advantages for its owners, especially financial freedom,
but if one country bans bitcoin why is there still a tax? what is the tax for?

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Quote from: mia_houston on January 30, 2022, 07:29:38 AM

Recently, the Russian bank has issued a call for the Russian government to completely ban both mining and the use of crypto in Russia, for reasons that are quite classic as in other countries, namely as money laundering, consuming energy resources and also damaging the stability of the use of fiat money later.
However, it is reported that Vladimir Putin does not fully agree with the central bank ban on crypto, and he invites the central bank and the government to take a consensus to make the right decision regarding cryptocurrencies in russia, I think if a consensus is held later, maybe at least the russian central bank will get enlightenment related to the benefits that can be obtained from cryptocurrencies for the people economy and also the Russian state.

The thing about money laundering and illegal activity is that, the criminals acted like that before the invention of crypto as well. Pablo Escobar became one of the richest people in the world way before crypto, which shows you that there is no need for crypto for them to continue their operations.

So, if you are banning crypto because of this reason, you are looking for the bad people in the wrong places. What should happen instead is the method that people should be KYC'd very well and you could predict who is doing what and you could keep their names off it. Obviously they will find puppets but they can't keep using puppets forever, and not for that much money. They would be caught if it was too obvious.

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Seems to me that all this fuss is something that the president of Russia want to happen in an attempt to cover ulterior motives. Currently, he has a lot on his plate which is why he does not want to been seen as entirely pro or against crypto so that he doesn't get too deep in any hole and take advantage of any good side of the coin. I reckon that he already is rooted on crypto and has plans for it in the future. Banning it is completely impossible at the moment unless the world leaders unute to ban it entirely.

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Quote from: tippytoes on January 29, 2022, 06:50:54 PM

Quote from: KingsDen on January 29, 2022, 06:45:22 AM

Quote from: fiulpro on January 27, 2022, 11:04:18 AM

Zimbabwe has notorious up and downs with their currency. At one point even having a 1 trillion dollar note being worth 40 US cents. So obviously they need to get ahead and what is the future of our world economics? Crypto.

Is bitcoin exclusively for the poor? There is something eluding my understanding.
When El Salvador made bitcoin a legal tender, it was said that they need to get ahead because of their financial situation. Perhaps, they have no currency of theirs but depending on US dollars.
Now that Zimbabwe what to make provisions for paying taxes with crypto, it is said again that need to get ahead.

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on January 29, 2022, 03:18:06 AM

...But even if there was tax evasion, my guess is that having a lot of people engaged in mining and other crypto activities is helping the economy in an indirect way.

I was actually of the opinion that people having alot of mining activities in China was helping the country. Not until when they banned bitcoin mining and there was no effect in their economy.
I would rather pray that every country adopt bitcoin averagely than for a particular country to politically monopolise it.

In time, the government will see the benefits to its citizens. For those who can earn money via this industry, they will not be a burden of their government and I hope, someday these countries banning the use of crypto will be enlightened that somehow this market is helping their citizens to uplift their standards of living. Because most people are not receiving any benefits from their government so they need to find ways to survive.

from the government's point of view I think they will just look for a new source of income from this business. besides that if a trader goes bankrupt, it is as if the trader himself bears it. Of course the government wants state income and in this new business, the government is starting to look for opportunities, although not directly of course the exchange has an official permit that must be recorded in the government bureaucracy

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Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on January 29, 2022, 03:18:06 AM

Quote from: Kakmakr on January 28, 2022, 12:41:20 AM

Mr. Putin only shy away from a total ban on Crypto currencies because he knows that Russia is becoming a mining stronghold and a possible monopoly over Bitcoin mining, will put him in a position of strength.

That's what I can't understand about this whole thing with Russia moving toward a crypto ban, unless all those Russian miners are somehow putting a burden on the nation's electrical grid--or if there's a whole lot of tax evasion going on. But even if there was tax evasion, my guess is that having a lot of people engaged in mining and other crypto activities is helping the economy in an indirect way. People are paying for that electricity to mine, and they're either buying things with crypto or converting it to rubles and then spending it. Either way, I don't see how a total ban on crypto would be a good thing for Russia.

Maybe it has something to do with the political situation, i.e., the impending invasion of Ukraine (or at least the tensions resulting from the anticipation of the same)? I'm not a politician and I could never figure out the way they think, so I'm at a loss.

Recently, the Russian bank has issued a call for the Russian government to completely ban both mining and the use of crypto in Russia, for reasons that are quite classic as in other countries, namely as money laundering, consuming energy resources and also damaging the stability of the use of fiat money later.
However, it is reported that Vladimir Putin does not fully agree with the central bank ban on crypto, and he invites the central bank and the government to take a consensus to make the right decision regarding cryptocurrencies in russia, I think if a consensus is held later, maybe at least the russian central bank will get enlightenment related to the benefits that can be obtained from cryptocurrencies for the people economy and also the Russian state.
I think not only in Russia, but almost all over the world, indeed we will find it very difficult to understand the words that have been issued by politicians so far, they play in the name of the people interests, many of them continue to say that all decisions are only for the interests and benefits of the people, but instead they make decisions by pressuring the people and taking personal advantage Grin

.

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Quote from: KingsDen on January 29, 2022, 06:45:22 AM

Quote from: fiulpro on January 27, 2022, 11:04:18 AM

Zimbabwe has notorious up and downs with their currency. At one point even having a 1 trillion dollar note being worth 40 US cents. So obviously they need to get ahead and what is the future of our world economics? Crypto.

Is bitcoin exclusively for the poor? There is something eluding my understanding.
When El Salvador made bitcoin a legal tender, it was said that they need to get ahead because of their financial situation. Perhaps, they have no currency of theirs but depending on US dollars.
Now that Zimbabwe what to make provisions for paying taxes with crypto, it is said again that need to get ahead.

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on January 29, 2022, 03:18:06 AM

...But even if there was tax evasion, my guess is that having a lot of people engaged in mining and other crypto activities is helping the economy in an indirect way.

I was actually of the opinion that people having alot of mining activities in China was helping the country. Not until when they banned bitcoin mining and there was no effect in their economy.
I would rather pray that every country adopt bitcoin averagely than for a particular country to politically monopolise it.

In time, the government will see the benefits to its citizens. For those who can earn money via this industry, they will not be a burden of their government and I hope, someday these countries banning the use of crypto will be enlightened that somehow this market is helping their citizens to uplift their standards of living. Because most people are not receiving any benefits from their government so they need to find ways to survive.

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Quote from: paxmao on January 27, 2022, 02:23:31 PM

Crypto is on the end an economic activity. Most nations that are adequately informed - more or less anyway - and have given it some though have come to the conclusion that their economies and citizens may profit from such activity and generate growth. There is a clear upside on allowing crypto, including levying taxes on whatever concepts they decide (activity, profit, transfer,... you name it, they tax it).

Now, why would a country ban crypto? Most likely reasons are to exert a tight control on the population (China) or avoid people bypassing the monetary policies (Nigeria, Iran, Turkey,...)

That is the balance that most economies are now weighting. The more open and strong, the less intimidated they are by crypto.

It can be seen that the cryptocurrency is legalized and almost freely circulates in a society where the rights of citizens are respected, where the economy develops freely, without pressure from the state and its government. Therefore, they do not worry that with the help of cryptocurrency, capital will leave such a state, because the conditions for doing business there are very good and capital, on the contrary, tends to such states. Problems with the circulation of cryptocurrency are observed in states with an authoritarian form of government. Judging by the fact that Russia has adopted one of the worst laws regarding cryptocurrency, not everything is in order with the rights of citizens there. Everything else is derivative and contrived. When they treat their citizens with respect there, then the legislation in relation to cryptocurrency will change for the better.

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Quote from: fiulpro on January 27, 2022, 11:04:18 AM

Zimbabwe has notorious up and downs with their currency. At one point even having a 1 trillion dollar note being worth 40 US cents. So obviously they need to get ahead and what is the future of our world economics? Crypto.

Is bitcoin exclusively for the poor? There is something eluding my understanding.
When El Salvador made bitcoin a legal tender, it was said that they need to get ahead because of their financial situation. Perhaps, they have no currency of theirs but depending on US dollars.
Now that Zimbabwe want to make provisions for paying taxes with crypto, it is said again that need to get ahead.

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on January 29, 2022, 03:18:06 AM

...But even if there was tax evasion, my guess is that having a lot of people engaged in mining and other crypto activities is helping the economy in an indirect way.

I was actually of the opinion that people having alot of mining activities in China was helping the country. Not until when they banned bitcoin mining and there was no effect in their economy.
I would rather pray that every country adopt bitcoin averagely than for a particular country to politically monopolise it.

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Quote from: Kakmakr on January 28, 2022, 12:41:20 AM

Mr. Putin only shy away from a total ban on Crypto currencies because he knows that Russia is becoming a mining stronghold and a possible monopoly over Bitcoin mining, will put him in a position of strength.

That's what I can't understand about this whole thing with Russia moving toward a crypto ban, unless all those Russian miners are somehow putting a burden on the nation's electrical grid--or if there's a whole lot of tax evasion going on. But even if there was tax evasion, my guess is that having a lot of people engaged in mining and other crypto activities is helping the economy in an indirect way. People are paying for that electricity to mine, and they're either buying things with crypto or converting it to rubles and then spending it. Either way, I don't see how a total ban on crypto would be a good thing for Russia.

Maybe it has something to do with the political situation, i.e., the impending invasion of Ukraine (or at least the tensions resulting from the anticipation of the same)? I'm not a politician and I could never figure out the way they think, so I'm at a loss.

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Quote from: Darker45 on January 28, 2022, 11:19:30 PM

However, there are countries which are focusing more on the possible negative effects of Bitcoin rather than the positive ones, and they give more weight to this than the revenue that they could potentially gain.

I think that is selfish acts by some few in government that feels because there huge financial benefit by hodling bitcoin and they want to destroy it. They want the usual root to wealth where you only work 8 - 5 job and still tax payers money, convert what belongs to generality of people into personal own but bitcoin is proving that you can be rich by being wise to invest wisely.

Darker45

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Although dealing with crypto and Bitcoin and their related industries such as exchanges, mining farms, and so on is not just purely about a question of tax or ban, the fact that the government would not only be embracing what's latest in financial technology but also profits from it in more ways than one, makes it more inclined to accept it than not.

However, there are countries which are focusing more on the possible negative effects of Bitcoin rather than the positive ones, and they give more weight to this than the revenue that they could potentially gain.

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Quote from: jrrsparkles on January 28, 2022, 02:32:51 AM

One who says they are banning Bitcoin, they aren't actually stopping anything they just stop the revenue for the government and how many times China banned cryptocurrency and mining operations but still its operating their right even if they are monitoring everything completely the miners will move to the country where they favor the cryptocurrency related activities and collect optimal taxes for that.

They can stop people to join crypto as they will find a way to make it happen as it was their well. yeah, the people from China had flown away from their country for that sake. I'm not sure this will connect to taxes but probably this was because some governments had made their own digital currency and they just want to protect it. But I think this is not enough to stop the freedom of the people, it is supposed they just let it go, they'll somehow find their living unless that is illegal.

Topic: Dealing with tax and crypto ban - page 3. (Read 593 times)