Deanonymization of BTC | Bitcointalksearch.org

veleten

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Quote from: Nagesh021 on July 14, 2018, 01:08:11 AM

Are there any techniques that are developed to deanonymize the bitcoin network?

as it has been mentioned above,bitcoin is pseudoanonymous and there is always a way to link addresses together
once it is done,you can proceed to cooperate with the law enforcement organizations of the target country to connect that to the devices and the physical address of a person(s)
there are several agencies that are doing this at the moment:
1.founded back in 2015, Chainalysis is one of the most famous(and oldest)
focuses on assessing risks for the companies if they want to enter bitcoin markets,also helping law enforcement
partnered with many international law enforcement agencies and Europol they provide tools to track cyber criminals
2.Elliptic-providing same services as Chainalysis,tools to identify illicit activity on the Bitcoin blockchain
3.QLUE-a programme by BIG(Blockchain Investigation Group) having the same functionality as the ones above,focuses on the darknet operations
there was a publicly available tool called Numisight,currently unavailable Sad

one could visualize transactions made from an address and connect it to another in a nice graphical presentation

likerseld

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Quote from: Nagesh021 on July 14, 2018, 01:08:11 AM

Are there any techniques that are developed to deanonymize the bitcoin network?

Where other platform like PayPal hold your money and ask you to show your full identity which is risky you can lose your money they can restricted your account where block chain never. It is anonymous which is good for us plus it has some advantages feature.

quichiship

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Quote from: Nagesh021 on July 14, 2018, 01:08:11 AM

Are there any techniques that are developed to deanonymize the bitcoin network?

No you can't .Due to the anonymous transaction bitcoin is popular. You're hiding your identity by using bitcoins technology. You can send money world wide without telling anyone your name, documents, passport etc.

milewilda

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Quote from: Nagesh021 on July 14, 2018, 07:55:33 AM

Quote from: gentlemand on July 14, 2018, 07:28:37 AM

Quote from: Nagesh021 on July 14, 2018, 07:23:11 AM

I want to know to what extent the btc network is anonymous? And i also want to know the different methods that are used and that are going to be used in future by the authorities to de-anonymize the network.

Ah right.

It's never been fundamentally anonymous and never will be. It has always been pseudonymous - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudonymity

Anonymity is in the hands of each individual user. If it's important to them then they need to educate themselves.

Suffice to say any time you go anywhere near an exchange or buy a product that's posted to your address or link your Bitcoin address to a forum where you registered with email your anonymity is blown for that particular chain of transactions. You could of course maintain a completely private address separately if you know what to do.

I can well believe that fully anonymous coins like Monero may be excluded from exchanges as a condition of operation by the authorities. It's already happening in Japan. Bitcoin's openness may help with its ongoing acceptance. Not so great if you feel like keeping a low profile though.

Thanks! Got a more clear picture. But i would want to get other's perspectives too.

Other perspective would really be just similar on what most people do say on here which is actually right. It had been said bitcoin isnt truly anonymous but pseudonymous.
Transactions can be tracked and seen out publicly which is really opposing on the thing where most people do believe into bitcoin when it regards to privacy or anonymity.
Monero would fit this one and said above it is being excluded due to that fact.

arumslee

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Bitcoin was never made to be truly anonymous, it was pseudonymous because of the immutable ledger. All transactions made by anybody are visible.

Marlo Stanfield

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Quote from: Nagesh021 on July 14, 2018, 01:08:11 AM

Are there any techniques that are developed to deanonymize the bitcoin network?

As others have started to point out, the answer is a very big 'yes'. People years ago tried to pass off Bitcoin as being anonymous, but slowly that faded away as people became more honest and educated. It's a public ledger of transactions, it's not inherently private or anonymous at all.

bob123

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Quote from: Nagesh021 on July 14, 2018, 01:08:11 AM

Are there any techniques that are developed to deanonymize the bitcoin network?

Bitcoin is not anonymous at all. If at all, it is pseudonymous.

And therefore you can't deanonymize it. All you can do is to try to stay anonymous (by using several tools (e.g. a mixer)).
This does not influence the level of anonymity of the network, just the anonymity of a person itself and his/her transactions.
In such a case (if it is done properly) it will be almost impossible to proper chase/deanonymize such a privacy-orientated (and tech-savy) user.

Nagesh021

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Quote from: gentlemand on July 14, 2018, 07:28:37 AM

Quote from: Nagesh021 on July 14, 2018, 07:23:11 AM

I want to know to what extent the btc network is anonymous? And i also want to know the different methods that are used and that are going to be used in future by the authorities to de-anonymize the network.

Ah right.

It's never been fundamentally anonymous and never will be. It has always been pseudonymous - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudonymity

Anonymity is in the hands of each individual user. If it's important to them then they need to educate themselves.

Suffice to say any time you go anywhere near an exchange or buy a product that's posted to your address or link your Bitcoin address to a forum where you registered with email your anonymity is blown for that particular chain of transactions. You could of course maintain a completely private address separately if you know what to do.

I can well believe that fully anonymous coins like Monero may be excluded from exchanges as a condition of operation by the authorities. It's already happening in Japan. Bitcoin's openness may help with its ongoing acceptance. Not so great if you feel like keeping a low profile though.

Thanks! Got a more clear picture. But i would want to get other's perspectives too.

gentlemand

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Quote from: Nagesh021 on July 14, 2018, 07:23:11 AM

I want to know to what extent the btc network is anonymous? And i also want to know the different methods that are used and that are going to be used in future by the authorities to de-anonymize the network.

Ah right.

It's never been fundamentally anonymous and never will be. It has always been pseudonymous - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudonymity

Anonymity is in the hands of each individual user. If it's important to them then they need to educate themselves.

Suffice to say any time you go anywhere near an exchange or buy a product that's posted to your address or link your Bitcoin address to a forum where you registered with email your anonymity is blown for that particular chain of transactions. You could of course maintain a completely private address separately if you know what to do.

I can well believe that fully anonymous coins like Monero may be excluded from exchanges as a condition of operation by the authorities. It's already happening in Japan. Bitcoin's openness may help with its ongoing acceptance. Not so great if you feel like keeping a low profile though.

Nagesh021

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Quote from: gentlemand on July 14, 2018, 07:14:12 AM

Quote from: Nagesh021 on July 14, 2018, 07:06:28 AM

So can we consider putting cryptos on the exchange as one of the channel for scientists to link ids to real world entities. If yes, How do we keep the network moving forward without people buying and selling it?

My ID is long blown with every single satoshi I have. I couldn't care less. I have nothing to hide. Nor do most people. If I make vast profits I'll cough up the tax. The only people who can access exchange information and my subsequent ID will be law enforcement just as they can with a bank account.

If people want to avoid the attention of the authorities they'll have to avoid conventional exchanges. Most people are happy enough to give up every single scrap of detail about their whole lives to places like Facebook. It's not an issue for most.

If it is an issue there are ways to address it.

What is the central thrust of your questions?

I want to know to what extent the btc network is anonymous? And i also want to know the different methods that are used and that are going to be used in future by the authorities to de-anonymize the network.

gentlemand

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Quote from: Nagesh021 on July 14, 2018, 07:06:28 AM

So can we consider putting cryptos on the exchange as one of the channel for scientists to link ids to real world entities. If yes, How do we keep the network moving forward without people buying and selling it?

My ID is long blown with every single satoshi I have. I couldn't care less. I have nothing to hide. Nor do most people. If I make vast profits I'll cough up the tax. The only people who can access exchange information and my subsequent ID will be law enforcement just as they can with a bank account.

If people want to avoid the attention of the authorities they'll have to avoid conventional exchanges. Most people are happy enough to give up every single scrap of detail about their whole lives to places like Facebook. It's not an issue for most.

If it is an issue there are ways to address it.

What is the central thrust of your questions?

Nagesh021

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Quote from: gentlemand on July 14, 2018, 06:57:06 AM

Quote from: Nagesh021 on July 14, 2018, 06:52:33 AM

By "they" i mean the people who build softwares to generate wallets. So according to you there is some amount of de-anonymization of the network?

You can download this page - www.bitaddress.org

Put it on a computer that's never seen the internet and generate all the addresses you want. No one will ever be able to link that to anywhere.

When you download a phone wallet through google play or a hardware wallet they never see the addresses or seeds you generate otherwise security would be compromised. Any wallet that was sending addresses back to the company would be exposed and shunned immediately.

That's different from hosted wallets like Coinbase that control the private keys. They of course see everything.

So can we consider putting cryptos on the exchange as one of the channel for scientists to link ids to real world entities. If yes, How do we keep the network moving forward without people buying and selling it?

gentlemand

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Quote from: Nagesh021 on July 14, 2018, 06:52:33 AM

By "they" i mean the people who build softwares to generate wallets. So according to you there is some amount of de-anonymization of the network?

You can download this page - www.bitaddress.org

Put it on a computer that's never seen the internet and generate all the addresses you want. No one will ever be able to link that to anywhere.

When you download a phone wallet through google play or a hardware wallet they never see the addresses or seeds you generate otherwise security would be compromised. Any wallet that was sending addresses back to the company would be exposed and shunned immediately.

That's different from hosted wallets like Coinbase that control the private keys. They of course see everything.

Nagesh021

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Quote from: AdolfinWolf on July 14, 2018, 06:29:30 AM

Quote from: Nagesh021 on July 14, 2018, 06:25:45 AM

By being careful you mean not linking your wallet id anywhere? How do they generate wallet ID's in the first place?

Well being careful just means that you don't make a connection between the ''bitcoin'' world and your own ''world'', which basically comes down to not linking any sensitive information to any of your adresses..

Quote

How do they generate wallet ID's in the first place?

Who is ''they''? What is it that you're asking here exactly? How the government agencies link wallet adress to people? Or services like https://walletexplorer.com ?

There really isn't such a thing as a wallet ID, it really doesn't exist on the blockchain level itself.

AFAIK, Walletexplorer.com does it through "adress clustering"

See;

Quote from: https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/49195/how-does-walletexplorer-know-which-wallets-belong-to-whom/49201

What walletexplorer does is called address clustering. When you spend bitcoins, your wallet will take input from several txouts belonging to several addresses depending on amount to be spend. So walletexplorer works on a simple heuristic:

If two addresses appear as inputs in any given transaction, they belong to same user
More detail about this method can be seen in this paper by Reid and Harrigan. Of course, this method will fail in case of mixers and coinjoin transactions. There are advanced ways to even detect transaction that go through mixers, but I don't think wallet explorer does that

To find name of wallets it can scrap forums like bitcointalk, some addresses are tagged publicly in blockchain.info, also it can has bots trade on major exchanges to get their addresses.

I doubt this would work very well on individuals, but it's very effective to ID large exchanges this way.

By "they" i mean the people who build softwares to generate wallets. So according to you there is some amount of de-anonymization of the network?

gentlemand

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Quote from: Nagesh021 on July 14, 2018, 06:36:50 AM

Can you please elaborate on how monero is untraceable? which aspect of it makes it more anonymous than Bitcoin?

That'll explain better than me - https://www.monero.how/how-does-monero-work-details-in-plain-english

Bitcoin is completely open to everyone in terms of seeing what's going on on the blockchain. Monero is completely closed to everyone. There is no way of checking anyone's balance or knowing what transactions have taken place. Privacy is baked into its protocol.

The sender, the recipient, and the amount are all unknown which covers most bases.

If you bought it on an exchange with your ID, once the Monero has left the exchange address no one can follow it. They may know you bought some. It's a dead end from then on no matter what they try.

Nothing's 100% and we don't know what tools are out there but Monero is as good as it gets in terms of privacy.

Nagesh021

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Quote from: gentlemand on July 14, 2018, 06:31:03 AM

Quote from: Nagesh021 on July 14, 2018, 06:25:45 AM

By being careful you mean not linking your wallet id anywhere? How do they generate wallet ID's in the first place?

Yes.

All a wallet ID is is a bit of code. You don't need anyone's permission. You don't sign up for anything. You just use software to generate it and away you go. That's one of the central points of the whole thing. No one can stop you. No one can control you.

When you say wallet ID, all it is is a wallet address.

If you don't want to be identifiable you do have to put in the work. It's nothing like Monero where all transactions are untraceable. It is possible though.

Can you please elaborate on how monero is untraceable? which aspect of it makes it more anonymous than Bitcoin?

gentlemand

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Quote from: Nagesh021 on July 14, 2018, 06:25:45 AM

By being careful you mean not linking your wallet id anywhere? How do they generate wallet ID's in the first place?

Yes.

All a wallet ID is is a bit of code. You don't need anyone's permission. You don't sign up for anything. You just use software to generate it and away you go. That's one of the central points of the whole thing. No one can stop you. No one can control you.

When you say wallet ID, all it is is a wallet address.

If you don't want to be identifiable you do have to put in the work. It's nothing like Monero where all transactions are untraceable. It is possible though.

AdolfinWolf

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Quote from: Nagesh021 on July 14, 2018, 06:25:45 AM

By being careful you mean not linking your wallet id anywhere? How do they generate wallet ID's in the first place?

Well being careful just means that you don't make a connection between the ''bitcoin'' world and your own ''world'', which basically comes down to not linking any sensitive information to any of your adresses..

Quote

How do they generate wallet ID's in the first place?

Who is ''they''? What is it that you're asking here exactly? How the government agencies link wallet adress to people? Or services like https://walletexplorer.com ?

There really isn't such a thing as a wallet ID, it really doesn't exist on the blockchain level itself.

AFAIK, Walletexplorer.com does it through "adress clustering"

See;

Quote from: https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/49195/how-does-walletexplorer-know-which-wallets-belong-to-whom/49201

What walletexplorer does is called address clustering. When you spend bitcoins, your wallet will take input from several txouts belonging to several addresses depending on amount to be spend. So walletexplorer works on a simple heuristic:

If two addresses appear as inputs in any given transaction, they belong to same user
More detail about this method can be seen in this paper by Reid and Harrigan. Of course, this method will fail in case of mixers and coinjoin transactions. There are advanced ways to even detect transaction that go through mixers, but I don't think wallet explorer does that

To find name of wallets it can scrap forums like bitcointalk, some addresses are tagged publicly in blockchain.info, also it can has bots trade on major exchanges to get their addresses.

I doubt this would work very well on individuals, but it's very effective to ID large exchanges this way.

Nagesh021

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Quote from: gentlemand on July 14, 2018, 06:17:15 AM

Quote from: Nagesh021 on July 14, 2018, 06:12:57 AM

Thanks, If someone's mined it he will have a wallet ID right? Given that you write an algorithm that finds out all the transactions in the blockchain we can pin the wallet id to the person right?

Nope.

A wallet has nothing to do with anyone's ID. They have to explicitly link it to their real world ID which anywhere they've given up their ID such as bank accounts, buying through Bitpay and sending to their home address, having a forum account linked to it with personal information.

And a civilian still can't do much with that unless they hack into email and so on. You need subpoenas to get the info most of the time.

It's more than possible to never be identifiable if you're careful.

The people who do get busted via dark markets have always made some moronic move. The most recent one was someone using the very same dark market address on their verified Localbitcoins account.

By being careful you mean not linking your wallet id anywhere? How do they generate wallet ID's in the first place?

gentlemand

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Quote from: Nagesh021 on July 14, 2018, 06:12:57 AM

Thanks, If someone's mined it he will have a wallet ID right? Given that you write an algorithm that finds out all the transactions in the blockchain we can pin the wallet id to the person right?

Nope.

A wallet has nothing to do with anyone's ID. They have to explicitly link it to their real world ID which anywhere they've given up their ID such as bank accounts, buying through Bitpay and sending to their home address, having a forum account linked to it with personal information.

And a civilian still can't do much with that unless they hack into email and so on. You need subpoenas to get the info most of the time.

It's more than possible to never be identifiable if you're careful.

The people who do get busted via dark markets have always made some moronic move. The most recent one was someone using the very same dark market address on their verified Localbitcoins account.

Are you trying to find someone or not be found yourself?

Topic: Deanonymization of BTC (Read 455 times)