Topic: Dear Bitcointalk Community, please change your perspective about Bitcoin! - page 2. (Read 2668 times)

It's good many people here seem to have this opinion.

I think it's sad Bitcoin lost all of its rebellious and subversive charm.

Just look at how goverments and banks consider Bitcoin now. It's accepted in almost every country, with no problem for them while instead some years ago they considered Bitcoin as a very "evil" stuff, something dangerous to fight. In my opinion this is how it sould be; governments and banks should be afraid, should be scared and try to fight Bitcoin by any means. Why? Because Bitcoin has the power to kill 'em all!

But now they think something like this: "Ok, this whole Bitcoin stuff is completely harmless for us... people buy Bitcoin using dollars (and we earn), then sell it for Dollars (and we earn) then their profits are taxed (and we earn again!) That's no problem with Bitcoin, it's another way to make money for us!"

That's wrong, in my humble opinion.

wow, really nice perspective from you dude, your opinion is same with what i think. Bitcoin price change is too fast and too large, nobody can expect that will be happening,  i think some of satoshi goals not same from this day coindition, fee so large, late confirmation, and many more. But we must respect everybody opinion hehehe

Bitcoin did everything and overcome different payment system as like you've said. Bitcoin is decentralized, no one could control the bitcoin. We can share it with everyone, we can use it as payment tools. Bitcoin has gradually changed and the main reason why created bitcoin to much easier to us to make money. In my own opinion, bitcoin will overcome PayPal and others, this is just my opinion! don't be serious on that one. I feel great confidence with bitcoin. I belong to the bitcoin community and I am so proud of it.

In my opinion, I think the term Bitcoin is a digital gold derived when Bitcoin started having more value than Gold. I am saying this because the time BTC was below $1000, the term digital gold didn't exist. And I think people who are using it just want to say that BTC has more value than Gold, nothing more nothing less.

everyone should expect about that thing otherwise the current ecosystem could just go broke and disappear. noone want it happened right? when people make bitcoin keep circulating by used in every single day , buy and spend it just the way people use fiat in daily life i believe the longer bitcoin could survive in financial technology world.

Yes, at least the post about "Micro-Payments" should be removed.

devs removed the fee priority formulae
devs changed to a tx relay min cost and estimated fee mechanisms that if you had a damn spread sheet you could run scenarios that show fee's rise even while there is low demand.
so even if pool's had a block that accepted under X.. the fee estimates and other mechanisms still push the fee's up.. not down
this was all stuff added that didnt need full consensus to achieve. which is why people are so angry. the fee rules have changed and people had no choice/chance to veto. nor did they even realise it was happening until it was too late.

we need to stop allowing dev's to just do crap that can be slid in without consensus

---

as for the BU stuff

even before BU many people wanted bigger blocks, dynamic blocks etc. but it was BU that really hit the headlines and got all the conversations flowing.

EC and dynamic proposals existed before during and continually... but its only now people are realising that the EC(dynamics) is much bigger debate than just brand shaming BU.

however from what i can see. BU is still BU..
from what i can see BU is using a buzzword ABC (adjustable blocksize cap) which is along the same lines as EC.. but EC(dynamics) is not a BU product. dynamics is a concept that MANY brands/implementations can offer

 but atleast people are starting to see the concept of onchain scale growth using EC(dynamics), is much bigger than a single 'brand'

The original post which I used the quotes.

Oh damn, I think you watch too much punish porn, maybe while in the sky as it seems you are traveling very much often, be rich and have no concern right?

---

Could you clarify, how could devs force miners and nodes to do anything, I mean how exactly?
Why BU changed their proposal name to EC?
Who is manipulating the minds of the community now? did you think changing BU to EC will legitimize the proposal and effects people's mindset since BU was infamous among people?

Very, very pertinent.  And actually, he had the perfect way to achieve a price stabilisation, but he explicitly didn't use it.  The right way to have a value-capped bitcoin would have been to have a programmed *difficulty* curve, instead of a programmed *number of coins* curve.  The difficulty would cap the value of the individual coin, and the number of coins would be determined by the law of offer and demand ; instead of the other way around.

In fact, this is the difference between "sound money" (Austrian school type money) and "ideal money" (Nash money) ; except that the Austrians don't want ANYONE to create money (seigniorage), which is why they could only use "assets from the distant past" (gold).  A good payment system comes close to ideal money ; which bitcoin isn't at all.  But bitcoin isn't sound money either because it has been recently created.  It might become it in 500 years or so, when the seigniorage of creating bitcoin has been forgotten.

well, I don't mind Bitcoin become "a digital asset" rather than "A real digital cash". I just a simple user that only care to get profit (in fiat) from the trades.

the reason why Bitcoin has failed to be "a real digital cash" is because its fail to  "crypto anarchy"

http://nakamotoinstitute.org/b-money/

Bitcoin was created to allow us to do anything we want, what Satoshis original view was is completely irrelevant to me.

However I do agree with several of your points, mainly what bugs me is that the fees are ridiculous and limit what I can do with bitcoin.

I completely agree with this and this is what attracts me to the concept of bitcoin


Again it would be ideal, but the only way it can be done now is via exchanging services, nothing is done purely in terms of bitcoin


I see bitcoin as more than this, it gives individuals the privacy we want while it could also allow us to track what government officials do with their money if we tracked them on the blockchain

I don't want a world without banks as they give me loans which I couldn't get elsewhere, their services are needed for several other reasons too bitcoin or not

Bitcoin is currently more inflationary than the US dollar, inflation itself is not a bad thing

Taxes are a rent on our society that allows it to function, you wouldn't tell your landlord that he cannot ask you to pay your rent would you?

The biggest problem with Bitcoin now is the scaling drama.

I am sure they can easily find a very good solution but no, they instead make things overcomplicated.

are you inner city talking to the rich..
or actually talking to normal people.

people 'discussing/asking about bitcoin' is different than people USING bitcoin

how many have actually used bitcoin (without hoarding in exchanges) to notice the tx fee to move funds is more than some people weeks wage.

i have spoken to many people in many countries.. they love the premiss of bitcoin, its original ethos and ideology, but when it comes to actually using it. they start to notice the flaws. the only people that then continue to want bitcoin are those too afraid to cash out or too greedy to cash out due to hopes of 'becoming rich' in the future.

bitcoin has lost all its ideology as a currency and 3rd world/developing countries are usually first to point out this fact once they get passed the sales pitch and start using it. finding its not a 'daily life' currency like Mpesa. but instead a retirement plan

it seems even you yourself recognise the issues

You don't have a clue... Bitcoin's growing price indicates that it's becoming popular as digital gold. So quit you bitching about buying coffee, we've had enough Ver's bs   

And that is not true. Come to Africa and we will convince you to use bitcoin. I am an African, precisely Nigeria and I know the rate at which bitcoin is going viral down here. Everyday, people ask questions about bitcoin and I have never seen a week that I haven't discussed bitcoin anywhere I find myself. Wanna check out the payment systems exchanging bitcoin to my currency everyday? You have no idea. I don't know why you must have mentioned that but that notion is totally wrong.

OP! Satoshi may have had that idea in the past but unfortunately, it blew more than he expected. If he just wanted a peer to peer thingy, he wouldn't have done it in such a way that bitcoin will keep increasing in value as a result of law of supply and demand or the transaction fee will increase hugely to this level. Unless you don't just want anyone to use bitcoin again. What is done is done! You can't expect people not to think of bitcoin as an asset when that is exactly what bitcoin has helped them to achieve. You bought bitcoin 2010 and you have a coin worth $2k plus today, what will you call that?
Like I said, Satoshi may have had a different idea, but he is nowhere to tell us what's up now and we are stucked with the system as it is. Maybe he is even somewhere on the carribean now enjoying himself with what he has. Whichever way, thanks to him for the great innovation.

rodeox its not about telling people what they can do or not do with their money... its about waking people up to the fact that while some people are only looking at the price.. devs are screwing with the code and reducing what people can do with their money.

im sure you will see this when you visit africa and realise that trying to convince africans to use bitcoin is alot harder than trying to convince the icelandics

Yes, your opinion about freedom is true.

But I think you didn't understand my OP very well.
I didn't say people cannot use Bitcoin for whatever they want... it's their money and in my opinion they are free to use it how they prefer, even in ways I don't like (for example buying drugs, etc.)

Yet the fact is that most people consider Bitcoin not a payment system, but rather a digital asset.
This is the point. There's a sort of misconception about Bitcoin, in my opinion...

yes that is right.  there is no doubt that the popularity of bitcoin increasing from time to time but in fact they do not have all the facilities that we are expecting from  bitcoin. and which are available to us in fiat,  and that is the reason that most of the people are using bitcoin for trading and investment purposes, and not using it as currency, but in future we can expect that in future people will be using bitcoin as currency for purchasing everything they want.

Bitcoin would easily be over $10k if it weren't for toxic Blockstream and their Segwit poison.