Ok but back here in the real world and in the present, the vast majority of humans asses the value of a given service and whether it is a good deal or not in Fiat currencies.
In that case: most stocks often swing up and down at the same time too, especially when they're in the same sector. 
Topic: Debate: Please explain to me why... - page 3. (Read 394 times)
- It has always been thus
Historically, altcoins have often been traded against Bitcoin. And since (almost) all altcoins are created to make the creator rich, the ultimate goal is to get more Bitcoins.Because of the lower market cap, altcoins often go up and down more than Bitcoin. When Bitcoin goes up, people sell it to buy more altcoins. And when Bitcoin goes down, the money from altcoins flows back into Bitcoin. It's a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Or a simpler answer: it's not crypto that goes up and down, it's fiat
Ok but back here in the real world and in the present, the vast majority of humans asses the value of a given service and whether it is a good deal or not in Fiat currencies. Now I am happy to agree this may not necessarily be the optimal solution and, yes, I know all the crypto-convert arguments why Fiat is also "made up" or a Ponzi scheme or [enter your pet theory here] and I can even follow the logic, but if I was to decide - hmm, should I invest in StorJ tokens, I will not be doing this on the basis of what BTC fundamentalists think the world should look like, but rather based on, you know, how it actually looks like, no offense
That there is some potential future world in which expressing the value of goods and services in Satoshis is going to be "the norm" and that such a world might actually be better - that's fine and I am not against believing this, but at the present moment telling 90%+ of people that something is "worth" 3453 Sats is virtually meaningless to them.
- It has always been thus
Historically, altcoins have often been traded against Bitcoin. And since (almost) all altcoins are created to make the creator rich, the ultimate goal is to get more Bitcoins.Because of the lower market cap, altcoins often go up and down more than Bitcoin. When Bitcoin goes up, people sell it to buy more altcoins. And when Bitcoin goes down, the money from altcoins flows back into Bitcoin. It's a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Or a simpler answer: it's not crypto that goes up and down, it's fiat
First of all, the rule has it's exceptions on every price fluctuation. It has happened that Bitcoin has fallen and certain altcoin was (still) rising.
But I think that Bitcoin price is a great indicator of the money flow in the crypto markets, especially as most altcoins can still be bought mainly only if you buy another coin first (which is usually Bitcoin).
So if investors decide to get out, they'll get out of altcoins and bitcoin too, hence the whole market will feel that.
And since the value of altcoin's in circulation is much smaller, they feel much heavier such a negative move.
If investors come in, it's a little different. Most will invest only in Bitcoin for being most known and for being advertised as less risky than altcoins.
Altcoins will receive funds later and in smaller amounts, but when that happens, again, since their value is not as big, they may get very nice growth.
And I'll come back to the fact most altcoins are bought by buying Bitcoin first. This imho makes imho unnatural to reference the altcoin price in USD and it should be in Bitcoin. Then you'd see the real fluctuations and may give you something close to an answer.
But I think that Bitcoin price is a great indicator of the money flow in the crypto markets, especially as most altcoins can still be bought mainly only if you buy another coin first (which is usually Bitcoin).
So if investors decide to get out, they'll get out of altcoins and bitcoin too, hence the whole market will feel that.
And since the value of altcoin's in circulation is much smaller, they feel much heavier such a negative move.
If investors come in, it's a little different. Most will invest only in Bitcoin for being most known and for being advertised as less risky than altcoins.
Altcoins will receive funds later and in smaller amounts, but when that happens, again, since their value is not as big, they may get very nice growth.
And I'll come back to the fact most altcoins are bought by buying Bitcoin first. This imho makes imho unnatural to reference the altcoin price in USD and it should be in Bitcoin. Then you'd see the real fluctuations and may give you something close to an answer.
The price of bitcoin is related to supply and demand. The fact that it is limited and the demand has, at least for now, increased has driven up the price.
Regarding alt-coins each case is different. On one side, their price is linked to btc in many exchanges and they could be considered a close substitute for bitcoin as a product. Thus the theory predicts that if the difference in price grows to high, the investor would buy the alternative asset perceived as better value. You assumption of these being unrelated is obviously wrong.
As for the intrinsic value perceived for these alt-assets, each one is different: limited or unlimited supply, real use cases, community support, developers support... If I had to sum up in one word it would be credibility, of which bitcoin has the maximum as of today.
Regarding alt-coins each case is different. On one side, their price is linked to btc in many exchanges and they could be considered a close substitute for bitcoin as a product. Thus the theory predicts that if the difference in price grows to high, the investor would buy the alternative asset perceived as better value. You assumption of these being unrelated is obviously wrong.
As for the intrinsic value perceived for these alt-assets, each one is different: limited or unlimited supply, real use cases, community support, developers support... If I had to sum up in one word it would be credibility, of which bitcoin has the maximum as of today.
Ok - you did not actually answer my question, but instead gave me a rundown of crypto basics and realities. I get those - I've been doing crypto for some time. I expected this would happen, this is why I was so explicit
But let me try with a more elaborate example------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I want to, say, store my files on a system like StorJ (just as an example, I am not particularly interested in them) - this would cost me some dollar amount, like, let's say, 200 dollars per year for a Terabyte. Now, to pay for that service, I need to get their tokens, let's define that as 200 tokens, at $1 each. I buy those tokens.
Now - a few moments later, BTC falls by 2%, and even though I have absolutely nothing to do with BTC, the StorJ service would continue to exist is BTC would disappear, my tokens now have a different value, like, I don't know. $ 0.97 instead of the $1 that I paid for them.
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All I want to know, and please, this is the only thing I am asking:
Why is it reasonable, rational or in any way "correct" that this has happened with my StorJ tokens?
What has the change in BTC price seemingly changed to the value of the service I can purchase for these tokens?
*I am using StorJ merely coz it is a known example and its function has clearly zero to do with BTC.
The price of bitcoin is related to supply and demand. The fact that it is limited and the demand has, at least for now, increased has driven up the price.
Regarding alt-coins each case is different. On one side, their price is linked to btc in many exchanges and they could be considered a close substitute for bitcoin as a product. Thus the theory predicts that if the difference in price grows to high, the investor would buy the alternative asset perceived as better value. You assumption of these being unrelated is obviously wrong.
As for the intrinsic value perceived for these alt-assets, each one is different: limited or unlimited supply, real use cases, community support, developers support... If I had to sum up in one word it would be credibility, of which bitcoin has the maximum as of today.
Regarding alt-coins each case is different. On one side, their price is linked to btc in many exchanges and they could be considered a close substitute for bitcoin as a product. Thus the theory predicts that if the difference in price grows to high, the investor would buy the alternative asset perceived as better value. You assumption of these being unrelated is obviously wrong.
As for the intrinsic value perceived for these alt-assets, each one is different: limited or unlimited supply, real use cases, community support, developers support... If I had to sum up in one word it would be credibility, of which bitcoin has the maximum as of today.
I would like to ask a very simple question to all you Bitcoin lovers out here.
"Explain to me, why it makes rational sense that the prices of most alt-coins (in relation to USD/EUR/Fiat) should become different when the price of Bitcoin changes."
Note that I am not asking why this happens at present. To put it a bit differently - if a regular dude with no knowledge of the crypto market would ask you:
Why is it sensible and/or "right" that the price of a given alt-coin asset valuation goes up and down when the price of Bitcoin (in most cases, a seemingly unrelated asset) moves up and down? How does the value of said alt-coin become more or less.. why does it make sense that the BTC price de-facto "decides" that whatever actual utility the alt-coin asset enables me to make use of (in-game currency, computing time, storage space, etc.) can now be had for a different amount than a few moments ago?
And, again, just to be sure - please refrain from 'arguments' along the lines of:
- It has always been thus
- Coz alt-coins are [enter your derogatory description here]
and so on. I want to know... why is this the right way for this market to function. How does it make rational, economic sense.
Thank you
"Explain to me, why it makes rational sense that the prices of most alt-coins (in relation to USD/EUR/Fiat) should become different when the price of Bitcoin changes."
Note that I am not asking why this happens at present. To put it a bit differently - if a regular dude with no knowledge of the crypto market would ask you:
Why is it sensible and/or "right" that the price of a given alt-coin asset valuation goes up and down when the price of Bitcoin (in most cases, a seemingly unrelated asset) moves up and down? How does the value of said alt-coin become more or less.. why does it make sense that the BTC price de-facto "decides" that whatever actual utility the alt-coin asset enables me to make use of (in-game currency, computing time, storage space, etc.) can now be had for a different amount than a few moments ago?
And, again, just to be sure - please refrain from 'arguments' along the lines of:
- It has always been thus
- Coz alt-coins are [enter your derogatory description here]
and so on. I want to know... why is this the right way for this market to function. How does it make rational, economic sense.
Thank you
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