Topic: Decentralisation is harder than you think - page 4. (Read 756 times)
Decentralization is the key element of crypto currencies. Advancement in technology makes easier to implement decentralized system in many sector. Because it offers flexibility and speed when compared to former. Similarly, we are going to a financial sector which is decentralized and because only this way financial sector can fit into our age.
The hardest part is when people think efficiency should be prioritised at the expense of decentralisation. It's an easy trap to fall into. Even I was a little guilty of that mindset for a time. I know better now, though. It's just something we have to confront when it arises. Hopefully it will become easier over time as Bitcoin grows and we can more clearly recognise the benefits when compared to more centralised alternatives. I think it'll be pretty self-evident at some point.
Concurred. The alignment of incentives holds as true today as it did at the inception of the Bitcoin network.
I'm not worried too much about centralization of mining, because Proof of Work is based on game theory - cheating is not profitable, following the rules is. As long as the network of full nodes is decentralized, the attack surface remains very limited and predictable.
Concurred. The alignment of incentives holds as true today as it did at the inception of the Bitcoin network.
I'm not worried too much about centralization of mining, because Proof of Work is based on game theory - cheating is not profitable, following the rules is. As long as the network of full nodes is decentralized, the attack surface remains very limited and predictable. Contrary to a popular opinion, miners don't control Bitcoin, they can't change the rules, they can change user balances, etc.
Bitcoin has won its biggest battle against centralization in 2017, when SegWit2x and Bcash were rejected by the community, and as of now I don't see any big threats to Bitcoin.
Bitcoin has won its biggest battle against centralization in 2017, when SegWit2x and Bcash were rejected by the community, and as of now I don't see any big threats to Bitcoin.
Define what you're calling "decentralization system" because there are projects working with decentralization since about 20 years. (Bitcoin is not the first decentralized money btw). Are there mature enough? I don't know but as I said people don't care about decentralization if you want to "shock" them, show them the money. Money, it's all that people see
both articles explain that centralization will remain in our lives and in reality it is like that. even though the decentralization system is in the early stages of adopted and maybe someday it will become a mature system does not mean it will be a solution so that the system becomes a democracy. because there are perpetrators and victims in the event of a decentralized system
I think those 2 articles are missing out something in them.
Bitcoin and most of these cryptocurrencies haven't really been adopted that much by people yet. I must admit that the rate of adoption has been quite slow but I believe if very many people where to adopted and started using cryptos in their day to day lives. We would then clearly see a perfect picture of decentralization.
What we are seeing right now is a small group of people out of the whole world population who are aware of cryptos and are using them which makes it difficult to see the effect of decentralization.
Bitcoin and most of these cryptocurrencies haven't really been adopted that much by people yet. I must admit that the rate of adoption has been quite slow but I believe if very many people where to adopted and started using cryptos in their day to day lives. We would then clearly see a perfect picture of decentralization.
What we are seeing right now is a small group of people out of the whole world population who are aware of cryptos and are using them which makes it difficult to see the effect of decentralization.
While reading articles there were two paragraphs that questioned me
Sure centralization is easier that decentralization but does it mean it's impossible? Hell no, I am confident we can still build something decentralized, we can't be perfect within a decade, that's something taking a lot of more years.
I am interested in a debate with people on this subject and the author's opinion
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Proof of work was only ever a way to take central control out of the Bitcoin system. But decentralisation is hard – centralisation is always more efficient. So decentralisation failed by 2014, when mining had recentralised to a few large pools. Remember the 51% apocalypse in 2014?
Bitmain has controlled up to 50% of the mining (across multiple pools), makes 80% of the ASICs, and already messed with the BTC hash rate in late 2017. Nobody cared much at the time, because the crypto bubble was in the throes of full “number go up” on the exchanges.
The point of cryptocurrency was decentralisation. If you remove that, the only question left is “why on earth are you bothering with all of this.”
(There’s arguably a hypothetical use case for a centrally-administered blockchain-like currency, such as XRP, which then doesn’t have to bother with proof of work. In that case, we’re still waiting for non-hypothetical production systems that move beyond pilot stage.)
https://www.theblockcrypto.com/2019/01/31/the-buttcoin-standard-the-problem-with-bitcoin/Bitmain has controlled up to 50% of the mining (across multiple pools), makes 80% of the ASICs, and already messed with the BTC hash rate in late 2017. Nobody cared much at the time, because the crypto bubble was in the throes of full “number go up” on the exchanges.
The point of cryptocurrency was decentralisation. If you remove that, the only question left is “why on earth are you bothering with all of this.”
(There’s arguably a hypothetical use case for a centrally-administered blockchain-like currency, such as XRP, which then doesn’t have to bother with proof of work. In that case, we’re still waiting for non-hypothetical production systems that move beyond pilot stage.)
Quote
It turns out that crypto communities make a lot of noise about the value of decentralization, but when you look under the covers, the entire coin comes down to a very small number of participants. For instance, Bitcoin’s blockchain is constructed by 19 mining entities, that’s it. Ethereum’s blockchain is constructed by 11. These are tiny numbers. While it’s true that each and every one of these mining entities consists of multiple sub-players, the fact is that they have come together under a unified entity and are operating together as one big business unit. There is a narrative that mining pools are internally decentralized, that there is invisible decentralization in these systems.
That argument turns out to be complete bunk. It’s like the emperor’s new clothes: they claim that there is something there that no one can see or measure or touch. The bottom line is participants in a mining pool are typically in no position to question what a pool operator is doing. They are in no position to detect when a pool operator launches an attack. So this narrative that these entities are internally decentralized doesn’t hold water. They might not be incorporated, but they are very much one group of people operating for a common cause.
https://www.longhash.com/news/interview-with-emin-gun-sirer-there-are-no-truly-decentralized-coinsThat argument turns out to be complete bunk. It’s like the emperor’s new clothes: they claim that there is something there that no one can see or measure or touch. The bottom line is participants in a mining pool are typically in no position to question what a pool operator is doing. They are in no position to detect when a pool operator launches an attack. So this narrative that these entities are internally decentralized doesn’t hold water. They might not be incorporated, but they are very much one group of people operating for a common cause.
Sure centralization is easier that decentralization but does it mean it's impossible? Hell no, I am confident we can still build something decentralized, we can't be perfect within a decade, that's something taking a lot of more years.
I am interested in a debate with people on this subject and the author's opinion
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