Decentralized vs Centralized Gambling....Which do you prefer? - page 5.

ethereumhunter

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Quote from: Abiky on March 12, 2024, 07:27:58 AM

Was it always about pleasing the regulators? Bitcoin was created as the anti-thesis of Fiat (national currencies). Its creator was a libertarian and cypherpunk. So if developers are interested in making the crypto industry truly-decentralized, they should look for what's best for the people. Not the regulators.

I'm afraid it's already too late, especially when governments are deep in the craze. To make matters worse, most developers have publicly-known identities. It's easy to catch them if governments want to enforce regulatory action on so-called decentralized apps or blockchains. In the gambling industry, the number of truly-decentralized casinos are rare. I'm fine with that as long as people have the option to gamble without KYC. Expect centralized casinos to dominate the industry for as long as it lives. Cheesy

When crypto becomes more popular like now, it seems it's hard to finds where we can playing gambling without KYC. When we can get one casino that doesn't apply KYC too strict, that's just beginning because when the casino grows and becomes popular, the government will takes on their eyes to that casino and will ask them to used KYC for their members. That's why we can only follow what's the rules for every casino and if we don't comfortable with the rules, we can try to search for the other casino.

Make sure you can playing gambling at the trusted casino, popular, have a good reputations so you don't have to worry if something bad happens. The governments now searching for the crypto business and trying to controls them so crypto business can just follow their rules.

dansus021

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Quote from: joniboini on March 08, 2024, 06:21:14 AM

Quote from: dansus021 on March 06, 2024, 05:06:54 AM

But with L2 scaling solutions and alternative chains, this should no longer be a problem. with layer 2 like Matic is totally fine since they are using their native token as a gas fee. But today L2 scaling let say Linea, Zk Sync and other like Arbitrum still occur a high fee in my opinion I recently claims a token for daily login in some airdrop the fee still at the rate 0.5-1$ I know that some people consider this as cheap than the regular L1 like ETH that can cost up to 10-15$ but if we accumulate that it could be a huge.

I think most of these scaling solutions failed to address how to reduce the size of smart contract interactions, which is why even though the base fee is low, any interaction costs a lot of money. Another reason is simply because the demand is too high and most people are fine paying that much fee for them. If a platform can package an interaction without incurring any fee and then take the fee when the user finishes their activity, maybe we will see cheaper fees on platforms like DEXs, decentralized lending platforms, etc. The fact that new products go live once in a while, and while it is not yet mainstream, shows that the demand will likely stay as long as privacy-conscious people exist.

Yeah, I quite agree with you I have been playing for a long time with Decentralized Finance and tried a different bunch of Decentralized Apps before and smart contract approval is not my thing, to be honest, and I don't really like it. The problem for decentralized apps in my opinion is a bunch of approvals I mean some apps use different methods such as "Sign" but anything to do with tokens like USDC or USDT always needs approval from the user first.

I like the method when the sites combine two centralized and decentralized methods, examples like you directly swap deposit withdraw, and sign-up using a smart contract and your address but when it comes to playing the game you don't really need approval.

Tho Decentralized gambling will of course still here and layer 2 keep improving I hear that opBNB only costs you $0.0032 on a single transaction this might be a solution or maybe there will be a gas less chain in the future

Abiky

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Quote from: temple on March 10, 2024, 04:42:04 PM

Of course Layer-2 networks bell a ring, but I admit I am not familiar with those implementations when it comes to decentralized betting applications. You can see the same issues with the Lightning Network and how it is still too much to handle for most people. I am not talking about the Bitcoin geeks, they know what to do, how to set it up and where to use it. But if there is a platform that wants to offer truly decentralized gambling, it should be no extra work for any gambler to get started or otherwise I'd expect many people to just stick with their centralized platforms. I am all for technological progress, but people are lazy.

Hm good question, I wondered the same because I can see real value in such a network. Vitalik Buterin explained it so well on his website with the help of a concrete example and yes, prediction markets could be amazing as it is far more than just a poll where people don't have to care about their answers as they are not putting anything at risk.

I think it will depend on whether or not authorities are able to fully enforce KYC regulation. So far they don't and I have been using several platforms without ever providing any KYC data. But I am only playing with small stakes.

Was it always about pleasing the regulators? Bitcoin was created as the anti-thesis of Fiat (national currencies). Its creator was a libertarian and cypherpunk. So if developers are interested in making the crypto industry truly-decentralized, they should look for what's best for the people. Not the regulators.

I'm afraid it's already too late, especially when governments are deep in the craze. To make matters worse, most developers have publicly-known identities. It's easy to catch them if governments want to enforce regulatory action on so-called decentralized apps or blockchains. In the gambling industry, the number of truly-decentralized casinos are rare. I'm fine with that as long as people have the option to gamble without KYC. Expect centralized casinos to dominate the industry for as long as it lives. Cheesy

Pumared

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Quote from: Webetcoins on March 11, 2024, 02:09:32 AM

Quote from: moneystery on March 08, 2024, 07:32:20 AM

just like you, i also didn't find any problems when using centralized casinos that enforce kyc on their users. the service they offer is also secure and i rarely encounter serious problems related to privacy and the games i play. so because of this good experience, i don't think i want to switch to using a decentralized casino, but i wouldn't mind if i was offered to play at a decentralized casino, but just to try.

I believe it's not about having problems with casinos, some people just don't like verifying their identity because they say it's against their privacy and they don't want to show their identity even to a platform because they started using cryptocurrencies so they could stay anonymous and this contradicts with their beliefs of the cryptocurrency industry, and to be honest, I don't blame them because it isn't a pleasant thing for a lot of people.

However, I also believe that if the platform is trusted, and if there are no other options available, then one should go for it on a trusted and reputable platform so that they don't face any issues when they go for depositing or withdrawing funds while gambling.

Sometimes not liking KYC is because you just don't see the point in providing this information to press a few buttons and place bets. This is why I always like more free betting sites.

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Quote from: moneystery on March 08, 2024, 07:32:20 AM

just like you, i also didn't find any problems when using centralized casinos that enforce kyc on their users. the service they offer is also secure and i rarely encounter serious problems related to privacy and the games i play. so because of this good experience, i don't think i want to switch to using a decentralized casino, but i wouldn't mind if i was offered to play at a decentralized casino, but just to try.

I believe it's not about having problems with casinos, some people just don't like verifying their identity because they say it's against their privacy and they don't want to show their identity even to a platform because they started using cryptocurrencies so they could stay anonymous and this contradicts with their beliefs of the cryptocurrency industry, and to be honest, I don't blame them because it isn't a pleasant thing for a lot of people.

However, I also believe that if the platform is trusted, and if there are no other options available, then one should go for it on a trusted and reputable platform so that they don't face any issues when they go for depositing or withdrawing funds while gambling.

Oilacris

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Quote from: Viscore on March 10, 2024, 03:49:08 PM

Quote from: South Park on March 10, 2024, 03:41:54 PM

Quote from: Abiky on March 01, 2024, 05:25:51 PM

Thanks to the inception of smart contracts, we can now enjoy decentralized gambling in a provably fair way. I've used a few gambling dApps in the past, and the experience was great. Except now that dApps charge high gas fees (on ETH) due to increased network congestion. But with L2 scaling solutions and alternative chains, this should no longer be a problem.

Do you think decentralized gambling dApps will eventually replace their centralized counterparts? If not, why? Which do you prefer? Centralized or decentralized gambling? Your input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

I doubt decentralized gambling will replace the casinos that we have now, and this is because we do not really have a need for them, a decentralized currency like bitcoin was urgently needed as central banks and governments around the world cannot stop themselves from printing money, decentralized exchanges are needed so we can exchange our coins freely without the governments trying to get into our business over an over again, but centralized casinos are fine as they are, and a decentralized option is not different enough or offer sufficient advantages to replace them.

Bitcoin is decentralized but it's slowly losing its decentralization as the government are intervening hard trying to control us. When bitcoin and altcoins were created, the idea of decentralized casino came as well, but it was not successful due to its complexity and people wants a simple one and that is what they usually do before the crypto exist. Now, casinos and exchanges are regulated, so bitcoin is just acting like a digital payment when we are gambling because eventually at the end of the day you will have to convert it to cash to enjoy it, unless you are living in a country where bitcoin is accepted everywhere.

There's no such thing about having no change or being constant on which sooner or later the things we've been get used to would really be that bound to have such change.Based up on what you have
elaborated that decentralization was actually the main thing that we are really that preferring and it is one of the main reason on why this market had boomed up but just as expected as for government to do such involvement then this kind of decentralization do make up some switch up or making some gradual changes on which people doesnt really have an option but to bare up with those changes.
Well, we cant really be able to avoid to tell that it is really something that gives out much better user experience and accessibility but in exchange on the anonymity that we are preferring into.

temple

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Quote from: Abiky on March 10, 2024, 01:28:06 PM

Quote from: temple on March 09, 2024, 06:34:16 PM

Do Layer-2 networks such as Base and Optimism ring a bell? ETH can already scale to millions of TPS. At least, using one of the aforementioned off-chain scaling solutions. On-chain speaking, you'd need to wait until gas fees decline to make your bet. With developers working hard to address ETH's scaling issues, you can feel confident fees won't stay high forever.

I've always wondered why a decentralized prediction market like Augur lost its luster. Even with the high fees, that wouldn't have stopped someone from creating a fork on another chain with lower fees (or L2 network). Decentralized gambling holds great promise to revolutionize the gambling industry. But with high fees and low popularity, it will only remain a niche for gamblers. I'm afraid centralized gambling will continue to dominate the industry for long. The future is unpredictable, so we can only hope for the best. Undecided

Of course Layer-2 networks bell a ring, but I admit I am not familiar with those implementations when it comes to decentralized betting applications. You can see the same issues with the Lightning Network and how it is still too much to handle for most people. I am not talking about the Bitcoin geeks, they know what to do, how to set it up and where to use it. But if there is a platform that wants to offer truly decentralized gambling, it should be no extra work for any gambler to get started or otherwise I'd expect many people to just stick with their centralized platforms. I am all for technological progress, but people are lazy.

Hm good question, I wondered the same because I can see real value in such a network. Vitalik Buterin explained it so well on his website with the help of a concrete example and yes, prediction markets could be amazing as it is far more than just a poll where people don't have to care about their answers as they are not putting anything at risk.

I think it will depend on whether or not authorities are able to fully enforce KYC regulation. So far they don't and I have been using several platforms without ever providing any KYC data. But I am only playing with small stakes.

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Quote from: South Park on March 10, 2024, 03:41:54 PM

Quote from: Abiky on March 01, 2024, 05:25:51 PM

Thanks to the inception of smart contracts, we can now enjoy decentralized gambling in a provably fair way. I've used a few gambling dApps in the past, and the experience was great. Except now that dApps charge high gas fees (on ETH) due to increased network congestion. But with L2 scaling solutions and alternative chains, this should no longer be a problem.

Do you think decentralized gambling dApps will eventually replace their centralized counterparts? If not, why? Which do you prefer? Centralized or decentralized gambling? Your input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

I doubt decentralized gambling will replace the casinos that we have now, and this is because we do not really have a need for them, a decentralized currency like bitcoin was urgently needed as central banks and governments around the world cannot stop themselves from printing money, decentralized exchanges are needed so we can exchange our coins freely without the governments trying to get into our business over an over again, but centralized casinos are fine as they are, and a decentralized option is not different enough or offer sufficient advantages to replace them.

Bitcoin is decentralized but it's slowly losing its decentralization as the government are intervening hard trying to control us. When bitcoin and altcoins were created, the idea of decentralized casino came as well, but it was not successful due to its complexity and people wants a simple one and that is what they usually do before the crypto exist. Now, casinos and exchanges are regulated, so bitcoin is just acting like a digital payment when we are gambling because eventually at the end of the day you will have to convert it to cash to enjoy it, unless you are living in a country where bitcoin is accepted everywhere.

South Park

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Quote from: Abiky on March 01, 2024, 05:25:51 PM

Thanks to the inception of smart contracts, we can now enjoy decentralized gambling in a provably fair way. I've used a few gambling dApps in the past, and the experience was great. Except now that dApps charge high gas fees (on ETH) due to increased network congestion. But with L2 scaling solutions and alternative chains, this should no longer be a problem.

Do you think decentralized gambling dApps will eventually replace their centralized counterparts? If not, why? Which do you prefer? Centralized or decentralized gambling? Your input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

I doubt decentralized gambling will replace the casinos that we have now, and this is because we do not really have a need for them, a decentralized currency like bitcoin was urgently needed as central banks and governments around the world cannot stop themselves from printing money, decentralized exchanges are needed so we can exchange our coins freely without the governments trying to get into our business over an over again, but centralized casinos are fine as they are, and a decentralized option is not different enough or offer sufficient advantages to replace them.

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Quote from: iv4n on March 10, 2024, 03:21:43 PM

Quote from: Abiky on March 01, 2024, 05:25:51 PM

...
Do you think decentralized gambling dApps will eventually replace their centralized counterparts? If not, why? Which do you prefer? Centralized or decentralized gambling? Your input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

It's the same as with trading... centralized apps are much faster and offer a lot more than decentralized ones. So I can say that I prefer decentralized, but I am more active in centralized casinos. There are not a lot of decentralized casinos around that can offer so many games (especially third-party games we love) that the majority of people love, so most of us turn to centralized casinos.

And I don't wish to be a "smart ass" here, but the term "decentralized" is being used too easily... lets not forget that decentralized means that "no single person or group has control over something". And most casinos around have a boss. So I think we need to wait a bit more to see a "really decentralized casino".

Totally understandable that majority would really be considering centralized casinos in the end of the day. Why? It all matters with the user experience on which we know that it is really that totally different
if we do speak or tend to compare out on the easiness and comfort on playing into these platforms then we can really say that we could really be having that good on on centralized ones. Also,
it is quiet evident when it comes to demand and recognition then these platforms are way more in demand compared to those decentralized on which we dont even see that much of those things
in the market as of this moment. Even if there's one existing then i wasnt aware if its really that getting those sufficient number of players.

For sure one of the reason on why dex casinos didnt flourish that much because of lacks of demand and recognition on which it would really be normal that
they would really be having that kind low number.

iv4n

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Quote from: Abiky on March 01, 2024, 05:25:51 PM

...
Do you think decentralized gambling dApps will eventually replace their centralized counterparts? If not, why? Which do you prefer? Centralized or decentralized gambling? Your input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

It's the same as with trading... centralized apps are much faster and offer a lot more than decentralized ones. So I can say that I prefer decentralized, but I am more active in centralized casinos. There are not a lot of decentralized casinos around that can offer so many games (especially third-party games we love) that the majority of people love, so most of us turn to centralized casinos.

And I don't wish to be a "smart ass" here, but the term "decentralized" is being used too easily... lets not forget that decentralized means that "no single person or group has control over something". And most casinos around have a boss. So I think we need to wait a bit more to see a "really decentralized casino".

Abiky

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Quote from: temple on March 09, 2024, 06:34:16 PM

Unless someone is really betting very high stakes, the fees in the ETH network are indeed making decentralized betting apps unfeasible. One of the biggest problems is that the fees or the congestion in general can hardly be predicted. The fees are super volatile.

When Augur was still around, I doubt that it would have worked well if the fees had been like they are now. Back then there were times with super high fees already and I wondered how a prediction market would actually get off the ground if the goal is usually to bring as many participants as possible to the application. The more people there are, the better these prediction markets would work, but ETH seems to not be the right platform for this.

Do Layer-2 networks such as Base and Optimism ring a bell? ETH can already scale to millions of TPS. At least, using one of the aforementioned off-chain scaling solutions. On-chain speaking, you'd need to wait until gas fees decline to make your bet. With developers working hard to address ETH's scaling issues, you can feel confident fees won't stay high forever.

I've always wondered why a decentralized prediction market like Augur lost its luster. Even with the high fees, that wouldn't have stopped someone from creating a fork on another chain with lower fees (or L2 network). Decentralized gambling holds great promise to revolutionize the gambling industry. But with high fees and low popularity, it will only remain a niche for gamblers. I'm afraid centralized gambling will continue to dominate the industry for long. The future is unpredictable, so we can only hope for the best. Undecided

temple

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Quote from: Pumared on March 09, 2024, 09:20:00 AM

Quote from: ethereumhunter on March 08, 2024, 12:01:03 PM

I still prefer to casino than decentralized gambling dApps. I don't have a problems if the casinos asked me to do KYC before I can playing gambling or asked that when I want to withdraw the money. But before I choose the casino, I will read their TOS to know what their rules. I don't playing gambling at the decentralized gambling from a long time ago because I already saw the gas fees becomes higher and I can't pay that gas fees. But maybe there are decentralized gambling that doesn't use just ETH or use coins that have a cheap fees.

I believe that only the ETH network is so congested or has high fees. But you raised a point that is really important. Relying on blockchains with high fees ends up making betting unfeasible

Unless someone is really betting very high stakes, the fees in the ETH network are indeed making decentralized betting apps unfeasible. One of the biggest problems is that the fees or the congestion in general can hardly be predicted. The fees are super volatile.

When Augur was still around, I doubt that it would have worked well if the fees had been like they are now. Back then there were times with super high fees already and I wondered how a prediction market would actually get off the ground if the goal is usually to bring as many participants as possible to the application. The more people there are, the better these prediction markets would work, but ETH seems to not be the right platform for this.

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Quote from: ethereumhunter on March 08, 2024, 12:01:03 PM

I still prefer to casino than decentralized gambling dApps. I don't have a problems if the casinos asked me to do KYC before I can playing gambling or asked that when I want to withdraw the money. But before I choose the casino, I will read their TOS to know what their rules. I don't playing gambling at the decentralized gambling from a long time ago because I already saw the gas fees becomes higher and I can't pay that gas fees. But maybe there are decentralized gambling that doesn't use just ETH or use coins that have a cheap fees.

I believe that only the ETH network is so congested or has high fees. But you raised a point that is really important. Relying on blockchains with high fees ends up making betting unfeasible

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Quote from: Eternad on March 08, 2024, 07:48:27 AM

Gamblers is now more confident with casino license than decentralized games since common gambler still doesn’t understand how smart contracts works and how to verify probably fair games.

Besides most of the cool games from 3rd party providers is from centralized casino. So unless decentralized games can match how cool the games on centralized casino, I doubt gamblers will choose decentralized over centralized casino. Most of the games on decentralized casino is more on common simple games. I’m not sure what’s the current game version they offer but I doubt they can match centralized games.

I would say it is a bit about the potential to have a loophole somewhere in the code as well. We have see plenty of decentralized exchanges and many decentralized projects that got "hacked" basically, one way or another people find a problem in the code and take out all the money in there. So when you are gambling, your money stays there for a while, not instant, and that doesn't feel like it would be fair to wait it out and hope that hackers don't get involved.

On the other hand, I have seen Stake got abused many times, most recently something like 40 million was gone, and they still keep going so that means you are capable of withdrawing your money no matter how much money they lost. This trust is the biggest reason for me.

Abiky

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Quote from: joniboini on March 08, 2024, 06:21:14 AM

I think most of these scaling solutions failed to address how to reduce the size of smart contract interactions, which is why even though the base fee is low, any interaction costs a lot of money. Another reason is simply because the demand is too high and most people are fine paying that much fee for them. If a platform can package an interaction without incurring any fee and then take the fee when the user finishes their activity, maybe we will see cheaper fees on platforms like DEXs, decentralized lending platforms, etc. The fact that new products go live once in a while, and while it is not yet mainstream, shows that the demand will likely stay as long as privacy-conscious people exist.

Interactions only cost a lot of money if they depend on limited Blockchain resources. Leaving the execution part off-chain, while putting ordinary transactions and consensus on-chain, is the best way to help scale dApps. Something like what Avalanche is doing with its 3-layer system (consensus chain, transactions chain, smart contracts chain). Decentralized gambling has the potential of replacing centralized gambling in the future. It's just that developers aren't putting much effort into it. Especially now that regulations are tightening each day.

With fear from governments, I'm afraid decentralized gambling will remain a niche to traditional gamblers. One can dream, right? Cheesy

umbara ardian

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Decentralization shouldn't be a label, it should be a reality. If DeCas still require registration, account freezes, or have modifiable smart contracts, they're essentially centralized casinos wearing blockchain masks. True decentralization implies a system beyond the control of any single entity.

Fairness is the bedrock of any casino, and DeCas rely on provably fair algorithms to ensure this. However, the effectiveness of this approach hinges on the complexity of the games. For math-based games like roulette or slots, provable fairness works well. But for sports betting or events with external factors, true verifiability becomes trickier.

High fees are a major turn-off for DeCas. Layer 2 solutions and blockchain advancements hold the key to solving this. Reduced fees would not only make DeCas more attractive but also broaden their accessibility. Until then, the high costs might deter users who prioritize affordability over complete decentralization.

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Quote from: Abiky on March 01, 2024, 05:25:51 PM

Thanks to the inception of smart contracts, we can now enjoy decentralized gambling in a provably fair way. I've used a few gambling dApps in the past, and the experience was great. Except now that dApps charge high gas fees (on ETH) due to increased network congestion. But with L2 scaling solutions and alternative chains, this should no longer be a problem.

Do you think decentralized gambling dApps will eventually replace their centralized counterparts? If not, why? Which do you prefer? Centralized or decentralized gambling? Your input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

When you said alternative chain, do you know that it's going to be extra task for the casino if they want to implement different blockchains. By demand, low fees chain include Tron, Matic or polygon, Binance smart chain bsc, and if they want to add Lightening Network, it's going to require extra work. This might bring some transparency in gambling but it will yield small customers as it's not everyone that will be ready to pay these fees, some people pledge cent in wager to win good amount, it will be like a burden to them.

I also think that decentralized gambling platforms are going to be slow for games like blackjack and slot, you have to execute a transaction in real time before you wager that money unlike where it is done in database with centralized casino. If there is a way that it will be smooth and easy, we will have plenty of them by now but even in this forum, 90% of gambling platforms here are all centralized.

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Quote from: Mr. Magkaisa on March 08, 2024, 06:46:33 AM

- I have never experienced gambling with a decentralized gambling casino in the crypto space. Because I often play gambling so far, there is a KYC because there is no problem for me when I give a KYC because the casino that I play at often is also reputable.

Well, there is no option for us but to do the KYC on the centralized casino. However, doing KYC even in a reputable casino can be risky too because we are not sure how securely the casino will keep out KYC documents. Any hack or mismanagement of these critical documents can expose our private information to the bad guys. So if there was an option of NO KYC, i would have opted for it but right now we have to do the KYC if we want to play at reputed casinos.

Quote from: Mr. Magkaisa on March 08, 2024, 06:46:33 AM

I'm not sure if I've ever played on the Dex gambling platform, but what I know is that it's often in regulated casinos here in the crypto space, but I don't think there's anything wrong with gambling on the Dex gambling platform.

The gambling DEX platforms are unknown to me as well and if there exists any, they are not so popular. Some casinos claim themselves to be Web 3.0 but they are not in reality.
I don't know if there is any significant progress in shifting from centralized casinos to non-centralized ones. The gambling industry seems to be giving no priority to the decentralized casinos.

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I still prefer to casino than decentralized gambling dApps. I don't have a problems if the casinos asked me to do KYC before I can playing gambling or asked that when I want to withdraw the money. But before I choose the casino, I will read their TOS to know what their rules. I don't playing gambling at the decentralized gambling from a long time ago because I already saw the gas fees becomes higher and I can't pay that gas fees. But maybe there are decentralized gambling that doesn't use just ETH or use coins that have a cheap fees.

Topic: Decentralized vs Centralized Gambling....Which do you prefer? - page 5. (Read 1425 times)