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Topic: Dedollarisation fails before starting, Russia and India halt rupee trade - page 2. (Read 402 times)

legendary
Activity: 2338
Merit: 1775
I think it is impossible to completely abandon the dollar, similarly, it is impossible to replace the international English language-everyone uses it, on every jar of sweet water translated by this language. Of course, they can reduce the impact, but they can only really be seen in the distant future.

Countries that actively export goods, works and services are not interested in the growth of the price of their national currency against the US dollar. 

There is an anecdote about the elusive cowboy Joe.  He was an elusive cowboy because no one needed him and no one even tried to catch him.))) 

The situation is similar with the Chinese yuan, the Indian rupee and other similar national currencies - they do not even try to challenge the dominance of the US dollar. 

Therefore, it does not make any sense to use these currencies in cross-border trade, because countries have the intention of trading not with one country, but with many different countries.  To do this, they need a strong and widely accepted global currency, like the US dollar.
legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1864
I think it is impossible to completely abandon the dollar, similarly, it is impossible to replace the international English language-everyone uses it, on every jar of sweet water translated by this language. Of course, they can reduce the impact, but they can only really be seen in the distant future.

You see - you understand, adequately assess, really look at the situation ...
And for those who are left out of civilization, an adequate society, legality and rules, they want to come up with a fairy tale for themselves, so that at least in a fairy tale they are "happy and rich" .... And not reality - where they are dependent on the Western and developed world, where they have no place where they are no longer allowed ... At the same time, the population of rogue countries know that their own rulers, who tell how "the west is rotting" and "the dollar is worthless" - they moved their wives and children there, to the west , assets, and money stolen from the same population are stored in dollars in the west .... And they are disgusted ... And since they are afraid to admit the truth, and even more so to fix the situation (slave ideology, protects its owner and is afraid of him) - they begin to deceive themselves. This is a primitive defensive reaction. For example, this is how children from lumpinized families behave - poor, degraded, drunken ... When they play in the common yard with their peers who have normal families and lives, these children feel offended. And they either begin to lie, which is also good for them, and fantasize. Or vice versa - to deny that it is good to live in a rich successful family - this is evil and not good. Or the third option - they collect lumpen like themselves and begin to "revenge" those who live well - to do meanness, nasty things on the sly, write insults on the walls, call names, "spit in the back from around the corner" ...

And now compare the described manifestations with the behavior of the countries and peoples of the outcasts - a complete copy only on a larger scale Smiley
hero member
Activity: 882
Merit: 792
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The problem is that dollar has roots deep inside, so deep that some people and countries can't even imagine. The whole world economy depends on the USD, we measure everything in USD because the internet and modern world connects us worldwide and America with English language is a global leader in economy, military and so on. This is something that no one can stop.

While it's true that dollar has an symbiotic relationship with countries and America enormously benefits via it by importing its own inflation and exporting one's economic growth, the problem is that you can't get rid of it.

As I see lately, countries like Russia and China are increasing their gold reserves but I don't get one thing, America, Germany and western countries have the highest gold reserves, so, what's the point? Still no one can escape from these claws.

The chances of more countries using their useless fiat in order to settle trades?
Just as much as every single one of you denying a Bitcoin payment and choosing to be paid in PooGrow, which is an actual coin, btw!
This is probably personal. Please, explain, what's wrong with Ethereum? What's wrong with Monero? And please explain, why don't we want to increase block size or implement lighting network or any other solution? Why are all of you so futuristic and so conservative at the same time? Futuristic because cryptocurrencies are future and you support it but conservative because you can't or don't want to understand that the current bitcoin infrastructure isn't perfect and needs change, if it won't change, people will change their choice.
newbie
Activity: 12
Merit: 0
I think it is impossible to completely abandon the dollar, similarly, it is impossible to replace the international English language-everyone uses it, on every jar of sweet water translated by this language. Of course, they can reduce the impact, but they can only really be seen in the distant future.
legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1864
I agree with you, I don't know why everyone is going against the dollar and they just want the dollar to lose its value. Quitting of dollar doesn't makes sense because it's currently the internationally acceptable currency and can be used anywhere in the world without any issue. It's the most useful currency out there and without it I can't even imagine that how would they do trades. Their own fiat currencies can be used bilaterally but that currency won't be acceptable globally.
Because of the war and the sanctions? That's only reason needed. Plus Russia wants to destabilize west, it always has.

Countries that have sanctions want to trade and that won't be happening when dollar is the centre of everything. Obviously sanctioned countries want their own system that can't be halted by any other entity. But that's easier said than done and i don't think they can make it work.


Wow! Finally, someone dared to name the true reason for all these squeals "it is necessary to abandon the dollar"! Here it is the main reason - the inability for rogue countries to exist in the civilized world, and play by the accepted rules! That's the whole point of stuffing about the dollar, or rather its "weakness", lately Smiley
But the joke is that a group of "helping the sufferers of sanctions" has also formed, which, under the guise of help, actually uses the situation to its advantage - for example, to buy a lot of cheap oil from Russia, selling them, for example, Indian rupees for oil, banning them change to dollars! In the people it is called "to breed a sucker"!
But here is another nuance - Russia will be "used" and thrown into the dustbin of history. But what will happen to those who, on a wave of hysteria, abandoned the dollar and transferred their entire external economy to the yuan? These countries are really pitiful ....
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1100
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Ah, another economic masterstroke ignoring trade's fundamentals. Why not print wads of cash, hoping to fix everything? Zimbabwe and Weimar Germany loved it, right? Don't forget propaganda's magic, convincing folks our funny money is gold. Celeb endorsements, a catchy tune - it'll be huge! But really, who'd use a currency that's trash outside its borders? Like buying groceries with Monopoly bucks - it might fly in your fantasyland, but reality? Not a chance.
copper member
Activity: 2072
Merit: 901
White Russian
I agree with you, I don't know why everyone is going against the dollar and they just want the dollar to lose its value. Quitting of dollar doesn't makes sense because it's currently the internationally acceptable currency and can be used anywhere in the world without any issue. It's the most useful currency out there and without it I can't even imagine that how would they do trades. Their own fiat currencies can be used bilaterally but that currency won't be acceptable globally.
Because of the war and the sanctions? That's only reason needed. Plus Russia wants to destabilize west, it always has.

Countries that have sanctions want to trade and that won't be happening when dollar is the centre of everything. Obviously sanctioned countries want their own system that can't be halted by any other entity. But that's easier said than done and i don't think they can make it work.

After the imposition of the sanction, India began to buy a lot of oil from Russia and there was a strong imbalance in the trade balance. Under such conditions, interaction within the framework of a bilateral swap of national currencies has ceased to suit Russia, it simply does not need so many Indian rupees, and it also does not want to strengthen its ruble (for obvious reasons, for every export-oriented country). One possible solution is to increase the import of Indian goods to Russia in order to even out the imbalance in the trade balance. There are other options, such as gold. Judging by Bloomberg's weekly statistics, the supply of Russian oil to India has not stopped, which means that the parties have found a way to negotiate with each other.
legendary
Activity: 2884
Merit: 1137
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
I agree with you, I don't know why everyone is going against the dollar and they just want the dollar to lose its value. Quitting of dollar doesn't makes sense because it's currently the internationally acceptable currency and can be used anywhere in the world without any issue. It's the most useful currency out there and without it I can't even imagine that how would they do trades. Their own fiat currencies can be used bilaterally but that currency won't be acceptable globally.
Because of the war and the sanctions? That's only reason needed. Plus Russia wants to destabilize west, it always has.

Countries that have sanctions want to trade and that won't be happening when dollar is the centre of everything. Obviously sanctioned countries want their own system that can't be halted by any other entity. But that's easier said than done and i don't think they can make it work.

sr. member
Activity: 1008
Merit: 366
Either one or both of the currency needs to be accepted worldwide as dollar, or there's no chance that they can replace the dollar with it. Which is not possible in a short period of time. Maybe in a long run, they can show progress, but these kinds of sudden acceptance will not take it far. And the main problem is they can just print money to exchange for other country's currency. Which is the problem, is being stated in the OP.
But one solution can be Bitcoin. But with the high volatility, I don't think any country will accept it suddenly to do international trades. But if they do, it could be a possible solution to this problem.
And I don't think it is that much necessary to de-dollarize the world.
legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1864
Instead of a thousand words:
  - India buys oil from Russia for INR. True, due to fraud in prices (the "merit" of Indian corrupt officials) - the price in dollars is high (this is a topic for a separate conversation).
But in fact, Russia does not RECEIVE dollars. She gets - RUPEE.
This is the beginning of the joke, and now the main thing:

- India PROHIBITED the financial system of India to convert for Russia, the rupees that Russia has into DOLLARS!  Grin This is what "fraternal help of the fraternal people" looks like.

The problem is that many, for some reason, decided that China and India really decided to abandon the dollar? Do you think they are idiots? No - idiots are those who now refuse the "healthy dollar", and kill the economy of their countries with the "sick yuan". Soon everyone will see how it all ends - the Chinese trap will slam shut ... India, having lost interest in Russia, will "wipe its feet on it" ... And leave it with a bunch of illiquid rupees. At the same time, do not forget - India resells Russian oil mixed with other varieties - for DOLLARS! Do you feel the grace of "chess composition"? East is a delicate matter ! Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 1232
Merit: 475
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Over the past months, we have been bombarded with articles about the global de-dollarisation, how countries will quit using the USD, how the petrodollar is doomed, how the entire US economy is doomed once the usd is dropped, how the Zimbabwean dollar, the Argentian peso, the bolivar, the Iranian rial and other, can we even all them currencies?
So you are talking about "BRICS" and yeah we have seen so many articles and videos on BRICS and how many other countries are willing to join these 5 countries (BRICS) single trade currency, i don't think the dollar can lose its value due to BRICS because it has set the great base from its origin and USA has made many bold moves to keep their dollar save (i don't want to talk about of bold moves) so what i think they will resist BRICS in some way. For more details you can read this article

Plus, i don't think solely Russia could devalue the Dollar by taking trade money in INR (Indian currency), that's why they are organizing big countries to come together so that an impact could be made on the dollar.

I am wondering, why Russia can't trade INR to use them, as there are financial restrictions from many firms on Russia due to war as stated above but why can't they just convert them, it indicated that in BRICS Russia is a weak point and i think until Russia don't settle the war, there will be no implementation of BRICS currency. And the USA does realize that.
legendary
Activity: 2240
Merit: 1172
Privacy Servers. Since 2009.
Over the past months, we have been bombarded with articles about the global de-dollarisation, how countries will quit using the USD, how the petrodollar is doomed, how the entire US economy is doomed once the usd is dropped, how the Zimbabwean dollar, the Argentian peso, the bolivar, the Iranian rial and other, can we even all them currencies? will definitely replace the dollar for trade settlements. And, if you're not so bright, it makes perfect sense, the evil greenback is holding the economies of emergent countries down, it's not corruption, it's not stupidity, it's not the lack of planning, the one who is to blame is the $.

So, some  leaders have come up with the idea, let's trade in our currency and prosper! Except for the fact that when you leave the realm of politics and propaganda for your voters and you enter the realm of economy, well, shit happens!
https://www.businesstoday.in/latest/in-focus/story/we-need-to-use-this-money-russia-says-it-is-unable-to-utilise-billions-of-indian-rupees-380345-2023-05-07

And the whole thing is pretty simple:
- there is no perfect trade balance between two countries, one will run a trade deficit with the other so one will end with a ton of useless monopoly money
- in order to use the monopoly money to trade with country C it would need to either convert them to a hard currency that everyone wants like the $,  or to the other country's fiat but at this point, you would have to trick them into accepting your surplus useless currency and who would want that?

Anyone who has read a bit of history would know about the Weimar inflation, it was caused mainly because Germany printed monopoly money to exchange them for $, and thus their own currency failed, because nobody wanted the Papiermark. And this is where we arrive to exactly the bilateral India-Russia trade:

Quote
Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov on Friday said that Russia has accumulated billions of rupees in Indian banks which it can’t use. This is a problem, Lavrov told reporters in Goa on the sidelines of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) meeting, reported Bloomberg.
“We need to use this money. But for this, these rupees must be transferred in another currency, and this is being discussed now,” he said, as per the report.

Simple as that, ruble-rupee trade is good until you need to use all those money, and for the use, you have to exchange it into a trustable currency, at which point you realize nobody is taking monopoly money India can print unrestrained for good old $!

The chances of more countries using their useless fiat in order to settle trades?
Just as much as every single one of you denying a Bitcoin payment and choosing to be paid in PooGrow, which is an actual coin, btw!

I don't think dedollarisation is failing. More like it's in initial embryo stage and many things have to be done for the first time which makes things harder. I don't think in times of digital money there can be any issue with exchanging money. I don't think India really pays in paper money which is being held in a vault? They can sell rupees to some other country doing trade with India or pay for Indian goods etc. Or, even better, they can buy Bitcoin and then sell Bitcoin for rubles.
legendary
Activity: 1792
Merit: 1296
keep walking, Johnnie
~snip
They have been talking about dedollarization for quite a long time and are trying, sort of, to implement it. But look at any country - no one has yet been able to bring this to life. Why? Yes, everything is very simple. At the moment there are no adequate alternatives to the dollar. Let this be a bad option, but they could not think of anything better.

I will immediately be objected on this forum that there is an alternative and this is bitcoin. Yes, I agree, this is a great alternative, which I also like, but I have doubts whether bitcoin will be used as a replacement for the dollar in the world. It is easier for countries to create and control something of their own, rather than a decentralized and free digital currency, most of which is already in foreign (whale) hands. Whoever has the most concentrated BTC will have more strength, weight and power. Countries and governments will not want to share this with who knows who.

I expect that all these attempts at dedollarization are expected to fail in the near future, and as we see in the example of the ruble and rupee, the countries are not able to implement this in any way.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 2017
Lol. I am surprised the OP hasn't got any single merit for the thread, I am out atm.

Anyone who has read a bit of history would know about the Weimar inflation, it was caused mainly because Germany printed monopoly money to exchange them for $, and thus their own currency failed, because nobody wanted the Papiermark. And this is where we arrive to exactly the bilateral India-Russia trade:

...

Simple as that, ruble-rupee trade is good until you need to use all those money, and for the use, you have to exchange it into a trustable currency, at which point you realize nobody is taking monopoly money India can print unrestrained for good old $!

In other words, we often insist on seeing the defects of the dollar or the euro and how much is printed but without seeing the overall picture, which is that most currencies are even worse, some much worse.

Over the past months, we have been bombarded with articles about the global de-dollarisation, how countries will quit using the USD, how the petrodollar is doomed, how the entire US economy is doomed once the usd is dropped, how the Zimbabwean dollar, the Argentian peso, the bolivar, the Iranian rial and other, can we even all them currencies?

We can but I would call them garbage currencies, further emphasiing their junkiness.

I think I agree with you, OP, but not because I think the dollar as the fiat currency that it is is very good, it is just much less bad than the others.
legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 6403
Blackjack.fun
I agree with you, I don't know why everyone is going against the dollar and they just want the dollar to lose its value.

Years of brainwashing from their inapt governments blamed everything on external factors, not on their corruption, stupidity, and lack of innovation to keep up with the rest of the world. It's easier to say $ is bad than acknowledge your own mistakes.

Dollar is causing a lot of havoc to third-world economies all over the world and countries will look for ways to protect themselves,

Ok, please explain how the dollar is causing havoc in third-world economies and it's the dollar's fault not the fault of those economies?
While you're at it you might explain why a far larger percentage of the population in said countries is keeping their savings in $, unlike people in Western Europe or East Asia? When your own population is trusting more a foreign currency than your own, it's a clear sign the problem is elsewhere, right in your own backyard.

China is the anchor of this, and of course, Russia is desperate, but anything planned under ganging up rather than letting economic demands be natural would not stand.

Well said, it's Comecon once more, with the same mistakes but with far fewer advantages.
copper member
Activity: 1316
Merit: 715
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Originally "petrodollar" was just a name for dollars that are used for oil trade, but then someone came up with a theory that all USD value holds on this oil trade, and if countries will switch to other currency, USD will collapse. This theory completely ignore all other international trade conducted in USD, which is far bigger than just oil trade.

That's also a narrative without proper backing, why would US economy collapse if international trade will switch to other currency? Inflation alone can not kill economy, and it's not even clear that the supposed dedolarization will cause massive inflation.

You are correct that the term "petrodollar" was referred to dollars earned from the sale of crude oil in international trade. However, this concept evolved overtime, and now it is widely perceived that US dollar value influenced by demand for oil. Therefore, In case of any shift from dollar to any other currency or basket of currencies, could potentially have significant impact on value the of dollar and US economy.

Inflation is a complex issue and it is influenced by number of factors including devaluation of currency, and it is not yet clear how dedollarisation  will affect US dollar.

legendary
Activity: 2954
Merit: 2145
how the petrodollar is doomed

Originally "petrodollar" was just a name for dollars that are used for oil trade, but then someone came up with a theory that all USD value holds on this oil trade, and if countries will switch to other currency, USD will collapse. This theory completely ignore all other international trade conducted in USD, which is far bigger than just oil trade.

how the entire US economy is doomed once the usd is dropped

That's also a narrative without proper backing, why would US economy collapse if international trade will switch to other currency? Inflation alone can not kill economy, and it's not even clear that the supposed dedolarization will cause massive inflation.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1853
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Dedollarisation is not impossible, but the appropriate international climate has not yet been created for it, meaning that until now there is no global currency alternative to the dollar accepted by all countries of the world.

But if we look at history, this is not impossible, because before the dominance of the dollar, there was the pound sterling and the French franc, a dominant currency in the world in the nineteenth century. Of course, the reason is clear. England and France were the dominant powers in the world at that time.

Therefore, personally, I believe that Dedollarisation cannot be removed unless the United States collapses economically or loses its control over the world, as happened with England and France.
hero member
Activity: 2072
Merit: 529
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I believe Dedollarisation is in work, and it is been tested now example is the India-Russia trade agreement to trade in their local currencies. The issue now is that the Dollar monopoly was built over the years and it would take  real work to work out real alternatives, Dollar is causing a lot of havoc to third-world economies all over the world and countries will look for ways to protect themselves, I think America is the only real loser here, if it works, good for them bad for America and if it doesn't work these countries will stick to statoquo
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 592
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I will summarise my reply because I might write an epistle if I should reply in full as it burns in me. Frankly, any currency is free to replace the USD if they dare to but I must assure you that they will always fail. The USD is the perfect no. 1 currency for the world's jobs as I know, it's jealous countries and haters that are behind this propaganda called a project to reduce the dominance of the USD.

For what? I don't really know. This is not child's play, "the USD makes the world go round."

Furthermore, is there any serious project aiming to limit the power and influence of the USD? I bet there is none. What China, Russia and any allied countries are doing is not realizable as they do not have the economic status to achieve that. The USD did not align with countries or beg them to take the mantle of leadership, it's the world that chose it due to its stance of stability and dependability.

China is the anchor of this, and of course, Russia is desperate, but anything planned under ganging up rather than letting economic demands be natural would not stand.

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