Defending against the accusation of gambling

fauzan Ichsan

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Quote from: kaya11 on August 29, 2019, 08:34:44 PM

Quote from: samdan777712 on July 08, 2019, 07:09:28 PM

I don't know if many of you notice this, but a lot of people who simply don't understand trading or derivatives seem hell bent on taking away our right to trade, just like the current proposed UK ban. They are cheering on the regulators to ban everything. They think any leverage is gambling. How do you feel realizing these people want to take your livelihood away?

The ones who requested to ban everything have a huge amount of grudge within theirselves towards us, maybe their businesses are going down due to traders and that's their way of fixing things. Maybe they are bunch of old dudes who do not know anything about modern trading with crypto currencies, couldn't they just learn how it goes and join us instead of trying to destroy the new way of us making legit money?

would be very unfair if their way of thinking remained conventional. even though they have a position and may not be able to keep up with the times, they should learn and listen to the opinions of experts about technological developments that occur, so that in determining policies can be done without harming other parties, or really fair. or maybe they are reluctant to get out of the safe zone?

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Quote from: samdan777712 on July 08, 2019, 07:09:28 PM

I don't know if many of you notice this, but a lot of people who simply don't understand trading or derivatives seem hell bent on taking away our right to trade, just like the current proposed UK ban. They are cheering on the regulators to ban everything. They think any leverage is gambling. How do you feel realizing these people want to take your livelihood away?

The ones who requested to ban everything have a huge amount of grudge within theirselves towards us, maybe their businesses are going down due to traders and that's their way of fixing things. Maybe they are bunch of old dudes who do not know anything about modern trading with crypto currencies, couldn't they just learn how it goes and join us instead of trying to destroy the new way of us making legit money?

Janation

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I won't deny the fact that trading resembles gambling. But in trading, we can use technical analysis. Our prediction has a basis with good entry and exit. In gambling, even we incorporate some strategies we only rely on luck itself. However, both are risky and profitable at the same time

There is a resemblance but it is still different.

We have our goals, we predict on a given price chart that month. Gambling usually relies on luck, and what I said might be the same with sports betting, well, I don't know what to say. This is getting more worse, they are limiting the areas where people should earn, that is the reason why a lot of people hate them more.

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Quote from: samdan777712 on July 08, 2019, 07:09:28 PM

I don't know if many of you notice this, but a lot of people who simply don't understand trading or derivatives seem hell bent on taking away our right to trade, just like the current proposed UK ban. They are cheering on the regulators to ban everything. They think any leverage is gambling. How do you feel realizing these people want to take your livelihood away?

That is because they don't understand what leverage is, and they judge that leverage is part of gambling. They didn't realize that with leverage trading, people can get more profit. Or it's because they never try to do leverage trading. They want to dominate our life, but they never think about the solution for people on how people can get more money for their life. They only think about themselves without thinking the public, and if they still do that, I guess that will be a big demonstration from the people to against them.

Ararbermas

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Some governments don't know how ppl can get benefits on doing trading with crypto currency . That's why they just want to banned everything that related to crypto for some purpose only wherein nonsense ..they don't think how crypto can change ppl lives . For them all are illegal even it can help the community to earn more especially those who don't have work and not degree holder that cant sustain their financial needs everyday day.

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Quote from: irsykes on August 28, 2019, 05:53:44 PM

Quote from: samdan777712 on July 08, 2019, 07:09:28 PM

I don't know if many of you notice this, but a lot of people who simply don't understand trading or derivatives seem hell bent on taking away our right to trade, just like the current proposed UK ban. They are cheering on the regulators to ban everything. They think any leverage is gambling. How do you feel realizing these people want to take your livelihood away?

I think people like that must educated, or at least they know basic of trading so they not say it like gambling. Actually it is true if people trade without analysis, it will like gambling because they don't know if will get profit or not. But maybe for ban or make regulation about it i think it is already too far. Not means they do bad things, but will be better if they know what is trading and anything inside it.

If they know exactly how to make profits in trading, i think they won't banned it at all. Trading is very much different from gambling because you are making good income from trading if you have the fundamental and technical skills while gambling only make most of your money lose even how often you gamble. You still end up being a loser most of the time.

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Quote from: samdan777712 on July 08, 2019, 07:09:28 PM

I don't know if many of you notice this, but a lot of people who simply don't understand trading or derivatives seem hell bent on taking away our right to trade, just like the current proposed UK ban. They are cheering on the regulators to ban everything. They think any leverage is gambling. How do you feel realizing these people want to take your livelihood away?

I think people like that must educated, or at least they know basic of trading so they not say it like gambling. Actually it is true if people trade without analysis, it will like gambling because they don't know if will get profit or not. But maybe for ban or make regulation about it i think it is already too far. Not means they do bad things, but will be better if they know what is trading and anything inside it.

nydiacaskey01

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Quote from: samdan777712 on July 08, 2019, 07:09:28 PM

I don't know if many of you notice this, but a lot of people who simply don't understand trading or derivatives seem hell bent on taking away our right to trade, just like the current proposed UK ban. They are cheering on the regulators to ban everything. They think any leverage is gambling. How do you feel realizing these people want to take your livelihood away?

We cant take that away from the government if they want to ban gambling in their country but it will just open an oppurtunity to those who wants to run illegal gambling in their country or just go under ground. I would rather go for regulation than total ban.

SquallLeonhart

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Quote from: Duzter on August 27, 2019, 11:34:33 AM

Everything got risks, when it comes to gambling and trading the risk is very big. Leverage trading/binary option trading is always related with gambling for some reason. Another thing that makes people and government to have a comparison of bitcoin with gambling is based on its increased usage as well as the early days use on gambling in large scale than other needs.

Leveraging and binary option is even still far better than gambling because it is not much of a game of luck, it is something that if you apply a very great strategy to, you will be sure of making money from it, but gambling, there is no way that you can ever use strategy for it, it then strictly pure game of luck.

Now when it come to bitcoin and gambling, government does not really know what they are doing by liking both because it has no correlation at all, the main purpose of bitcoin is for investment and people only saw that little opportunity of investing in it, but gambling is just a game that requires the service of cryptocurrency to get better in its operation, so there is no much similarity between the bitcoin system and gambling system at all.

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Quote from: arpon11 on August 27, 2019, 07:13:53 AM

Quote from: samdan777712 on July 08, 2019, 07:09:28 PM

I don't know if many of you notice this, but a lot of people who simply don't understand trading or derivatives seem hell bent on taking away our right to trade, just like the current proposed UK ban. They are cheering on the regulators to ban everything. They think any leverage is gambling. How do you feel realizing these people want to take your livelihood away?

Gambling is quite different from trading and I don’t know why people keep promoting the ideas of leverage trading as a gambling. I have been trading for long and I can attest to the fact that trading is worthwhile and we can become professionals in it like other professions. I think we would need to educate the governments and other financial institutions concern how regulatory authority should see trade and gambling in other to stop this unnecessary banning of leverage trade.

I agree, there are major difference here: when you gamble, expect your money to lose because there is what we call house edge. As compare to trading wherein you have total control of your capital and you have a good chance to make money in the long run. So it's really profitable specially for those who treat trading as a profession.

Government education though is futile which regards to crypto trading. Most of them are afraid of crypto, although there are countries who have regulated it and became successful specially in Asian region. But it is still a long way to go.

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Quote from: Duzter on August 27, 2019, 11:34:33 AM

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Quote from: jrrsparkles on August 27, 2019, 06:52:19 AM

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I won't deny the fact that trading resembles gambling. But in trading, we can use technical analysis. Our prediction has a basis with good entry and exit. In gambling, even we incorporate some strategies we only rely on luck itself. However, both are risky and profitable at the same time

Risk involving might be same but both were done for different cause with the resemblance of making money that is why people consider crypto trading as well gambling,if they consider for this reason then they should have to say traditional investments are also as gambling and ban them since we cannot say that there will be any assured return on it.Moreover the fiat from any government is the biggest scam so ban them first before talking about others.

Trading and gambling are both risky but there are clear chances in trading to make good returns compared to gambling that is based on luck only. But still, gambling should have no reasons to be banned but should only have regulations to be followed so that gamblers will also feel the sense of security when in gambling.

Everything got risks, when it comes to gambling and trading the risk is very big. Leverage trading/binary option trading is always related with gambling for some reason. Another thing that makes people and government to have a comparison of bitcoin with gambling is based on its increased usage as well as the early days use on gambling in large scale than other needs.

Still bitcoin mostly used for gambling and trading compared to any other activities but the reason why bitcoin didn't got much usage is also the government who don't want to see the growth of decentralized payment by strict implementation like KYC and freezing accounts for no reason other than related to crypto purchases.

This crypto market is already standing up for 10 years and we do already see the progress when it comes to adoption but we cant really deny that there were still some government or countries that do have still that negativity views towards bitcoin due to that decentralized feature which is the primary thing that they don't really like.
About on the topic if its being banned or prohibited then you wont have any choice but to abide with the law or else then you do know the consequences behind.

Leverage is somewhat really like a gambling but eventually this is totally different if you do try to compare it on sole gambling games.This thing will turn out to be a gamble if you
do not know on what you are doing or simply you trading up just having the behavior of gambling and this is when it considered to be one. Government are way too overreacting about this issue and its somewhat exaggerated.

Duzter

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Quote from: jrrsparkles on August 27, 2019, 06:52:19 AM

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I won't deny the fact that trading resembles gambling. But in trading, we can use technical analysis. Our prediction has a basis with good entry and exit. In gambling, even we incorporate some strategies we only rely on luck itself. However, both are risky and profitable at the same time

Risk involving might be same but both were done for different cause with the resemblance of making money that is why people consider crypto trading as well gambling,if they consider for this reason then they should have to say traditional investments are also as gambling and ban them since we cannot say that there will be any assured return on it.Moreover the fiat from any government is the biggest scam so ban them first before talking about others.

Trading and gambling are both risky but there are clear chances in trading to make good returns compared to gambling that is based on luck only. But still, gambling should have no reasons to be banned but should only have regulations to be followed so that gamblers will also feel the sense of security when in gambling.

Everything got risks, when it comes to gambling and trading the risk is very big. Leverage trading/binary option trading is always related with gambling for some reason. Another thing that makes people and government to have a comparison of bitcoin with gambling is based on its increased usage as well as the early days use on gambling in large scale than other needs.

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Quote from: samdan777712 on July 08, 2019, 07:09:28 PM

I don't know if many of you notice this, but a lot of people who simply don't understand trading or derivatives seem hell bent on taking away our right to trade, just like the current proposed UK ban. They are cheering on the regulators to ban everything. They think any leverage is gambling. How do you feel realizing these people want to take your livelihood away?

Gambling is quite different from trading and I don’t know why people keep promoting the ideas of leverage trading as a gambling. I have been trading for long and I can attest to the fact that trading is worthwhile and we can become professionals in it like other professions. I think we would need to educate the governments and other financial institutions concern how regulatory authority should see trade and gambling in other to stop this unnecessary banning of leverage trade.

jrrsparkles

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Quote from: ?? on ??

I won't deny the fact that trading resembles gambling. But in trading, we can use technical analysis. Our prediction has a basis with good entry and exit. In gambling, even we incorporate some strategies we only rely on luck itself. However, both are risky and profitable at the same time

Risk involving might be same but both were done for different cause with the resemblance of making money that is why people consider crypto trading as well gambling,if they consider for this reason then they should have to say traditional investments are also as gambling and ban them since we cannot say that there will be any assured return on it.Moreover the fiat from any government is the biggest scam so ban them first before talking about others.

audaciousbeing

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The issue of misconception about bitcoin is not something that is just happening. To some other people they just believe its an illegal 'thing' without taking their own ample time to even understand what it is about but just be myopic about their thinking. To some other people, its just something gamblers use, while to others, its for the money launderers. I think changing the narrative is on the active participants who are one way or the other have something to do with crypto and I have seen quite a number of those discussions happening. I have seen conferences held and discussion forums where crypto enthusiasts have made reasonable comments on the polity and by those actions would things change.

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Quote from: Lawrenzoo on July 16, 2019, 12:43:00 PM

Quote from: exstasie on July 11, 2019, 04:53:08 AM

Quote from: gentlemand on July 10, 2019, 09:08:23 AM

"Gambling is the wagering of money or something of value on an event with an uncertain outcome, with the primary intent of winning money or material goods."

Um, that sounds exactly like trading, even more so when it comes to leveraged stuff. Nothing to be ashamed of. It's a bit disingenuous to pretend it's something other than that.

~~snip

I dont think that we really have professional gamblers because gambling is a game of luck

Gambling is a game of luck which you are quite right, but there are some gambling games that does not rely only on luck but strategies, we have some gambling that requires strategies and skills, same way that trading also require strategies. That is why leveraging is not for everyone, and it is not what anyone who is not a pro trader should really get involved with, otherwise.

It will be like gambling and I guess that is why UK government are seeing leveraging as trade of luck, because you operate in a volatile market and you can never predict exactly what could happen at a particular time, leveraging has really made lots of people commit suicide when they lose their money, and until you become a pro trader before you should ever think of playing with leverage at all.

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Quote from: samdan777712 on July 08, 2019, 07:09:28 PM

I don't know if many of you notice this, but a lot of people who simply don't understand trading or derivatives seem hell bent on taking away our right to trade, just like the current proposed UK ban. They are cheering on the regulators to ban everything. They think any leverage is gambling. How do you feel realizing these people want to take your livelihood away?

Among all reasons, lack of trading knowledge is surely not the main reason why authorities are looking to ban some types of trading. You gave the example of UK ban, as per my knowledge authorities are most skeptical about binary trading. They aren't looking to ban all kinds of trading. And, moreover, it is not possible to ban all kind of trading and derivatives since these activities are the basis of mobilization of funds in the economy which is very necessary for economic development.
Coming to binary trading, even I consider binary trading as a sort of gambling since one is wagering money on the future value of security and there is equal chance of losing your capital if you make wrong decision which is essence of gambling. It is not exactly like traditional option trading and more of a gambling niche.

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Quote from: legendster on July 09, 2019, 01:14:17 PM

Quote from: beerlover on July 09, 2019, 09:55:42 AM

People really have no clue what bitcoin is at certain ages. You can make a 20 year old understand what bitcoin is in under 15 minutes, you can make a 40 year old understand what bitcoin is in couple of hours by answering all details of their questions, but you can't really make a 60+ year old understand bitcoin that easily, of course there are some people who will understand but they are not the standard, they are the niche so that is why there will some bans here and there.

Politicians are usually old people, they have no idea what they are voting for and only listen to what others told them about it or they just have a agenda in their mind they are not willing to change, that is why for years we will have these old people who grew up in no tv's in every room type of age and in 20-30 years our politicians will be better people.

Sadly not many 20-year-old care about Bitcoins or cryptos. Take a look at this survey : https://www.businessinsider.com/gen-z-not-buying-cryptocurrency-facebook-libra-2019-6?IR=T

So forget about old people understanding this space.

As far as derivatives being considered gambling, it IS a form of gambling, so is speculative trading. Its a huge industry taking it down is not only financially unwise but downright impossible.

Sadly that's quite true. Even in the place I work in (IT industry) most of my colleagues are unaware of bitcoin.
I wonder which world they are living in because how can you not know of the most trending thing going on despite you being an IT employee.
A few those who know still thinks that it's not gonna succeed in the long run since it has already dumped hard.
I did try to change their opinion about bitcoin by telling them it's benefits and all but I didn't see it working out.
I think bitcoin will just take it's own time before it would be widely accepted just like the internet.

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Quote from: exstasie on July 11, 2019, 04:53:08 AM

Quote from: gentlemand on July 10, 2019, 09:08:23 AM

"Gambling is the wagering of money or something of value on an event with an uncertain outcome, with the primary intent of winning money or material goods."

Um, that sounds exactly like trading, even more so when it comes to leveraged stuff. Nothing to be ashamed of. It's a bit disingenuous to pretend it's something other than that.

Yep, I've got no problem with the label. People just need to get over their hangups about gambling.

I know professional gamblers, professional traders. It's not for everybody and most people who do it casually will probably lose money. But hey, what's wrong with losing a little money? The pros need to take their profits from someone. Cheesy

I dont think that we really have professional gamblers because gambling is a game of luck

coinfinger

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I guess that the issue they have is with cryptocurrency and not trading generally, if you look at FOREX trading, even government do participate in it and has lots of companies set up to also trade on behalf of government with government money, but looking at cryptocurrency, they are yet to still understand the technology of cryptocurrency, and we cannot rush them into knowing about this new system, with time, it will gradually creep into their operations too and they will learn to accept it.

We already have some countries that are already friendly with cryptocurrency, and they have no issue trading it, so long it brings development to their economy financially, what I thought UK would do is to bring best hand that will understand how to trade cryptocurrency, so they don’t lose their money to best hands in other countries if that has been their fear.

Topic: Defending against the accusation of gambling (Read 493 times)