DeFi, AI, NFT & Gaming on Bitcoin is a scam? - page 2.

criptoevangelista

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Quote from: windrunnersylvanas on May 22, 2024, 05:45:24 PM

I'm doubt that DeFi, AI, NFT & Gaming on Bitcoin will be success .. What do you really think about these narratives called Layer 2 And Defi on Bitcoin?

When it's a bull run, people try to create narratives to try to capture money at all costs, then they invent a bunch of worthless crap and try to convince people that these creations make sense... bitcoiners are conservative and they won't accept that.. This type of movement on the bitcoin network is only for speculators and shitcoiners.

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Quote from: windrunnersylvanas on May 23, 2024, 05:42:38 AM

The Liquid Network is a sidechain protocol built on top of the Bitcoin blockchain. The Liquid Network was created by Blockstream but is governed by a federation of parties and operated on an open-source blockchain platform called Elements.

Liquid network was created by Blockstream but in a way that federation of parties are involved. It has its own open source blockchain called Elements and it is referred to as side chain. It is called L-BTC which bitcoin developers will argue to be an altcoin. But if it was proposed in BIP and implemented, I think it would have be called layer 2 and be called BTC instead of L-BTC. Another layer 2 that can be implemented would be the drive/spider chain.

windrunnersylvanas

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on May 23, 2024, 05:34:04 AM

Quote from: windrunnersylvanas on May 23, 2024, 05:04:15 AM

so those Ordinals NFTs, BRC20 tokens and Runes are not on layer 2?

They are not layer 2 because they are not bitcoin. Layer 2 means bitcoin that is not on blockchain because it is moved from blockchain to another layer which is called layer 2. Take bitcoin lightning network as an example, you will need to open a channel. If you are using a noncustodial bitcoin lightning wallet, you will need to transfer bitcoin onchain to an address on the wallet just like normal bitcoin wallet, you will pay the onchain transaction fee to open a lightning channel and the remaining BTC that you want to use to open the channel will be on your lightning wallet balance as the coin is transferred from onchain to offchain (layer 2). With layer 2, you are still referring to bitcoin and not any other coins or tokens.

Quote from: ABCbits on May 23, 2024, 05:32:50 AM

Correct, all of them on Bitcoin main network. But take note none of them are part of Bitcoin protocol. They create their own rule (which isn't verified by Bitcoin node/miner) and hope other people follow it.

That is true.

then what about Liquid network?? rootstock?

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Quote from: windrunnersylvanas on May 23, 2024, 05:04:15 AM

so those Ordinals NFTs, BRC20 tokens and Runes are not on layer 2?

They are not layer 2 because they are not bitcoin. Layer 2 means bitcoin that is not on blockchain because it is moved from blockchain to another layer which is called layer 2. Take bitcoin lightning network as an example, you will need to open a channel. If you are using a noncustodial bitcoin lightning wallet, you will need to transfer bitcoin onchain to an address on the wallet just like normal bitcoin wallet, you will pay the onchain transaction fee to open a lightning channel and the remaining BTC that you want to use to open the channel will be on your lightning wallet balance as the coin is transferred from onchain to offchain (layer 2). With layer 2, you are still referring to bitcoin and not any other coins or tokens.

Quote from: ABCbits on May 23, 2024, 05:32:50 AM

Correct, all of them on Bitcoin main network. But take note none of them are part of Bitcoin protocol. They create their own rule (which isn't verified by Bitcoin node/miner) and hope other people follow it.

That is true.

ABCbits

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Layer 2 is fairly good approach to let people use (turing complete) smart contract and other feature which isn't available on Bitcoin itself, without using altcoin or different blockchain. But as usual, i expect almost all of them are either scam or will fail.

Quote from: windrunnersylvanas on May 23, 2024, 05:04:15 AM

Quote from: Charles-Tim on May 22, 2024, 05:59:22 PM

Layer 2 is different from what you are asking question about. Layer 2 will refer to something like bitcoin lightning network, or the drive/spider chain. These are different from bitcoin tokens like Ordinals NFTs, BRC20 tokens and Runes.

What I noticed about the bitcoin tokens is that you should only use them to gamble. Their prices can increase significantly and decrease significantly just like altcoins.

so those Ordinals NFTs, BRC20 tokens and Runes are not on layer 2?

Correct, all of them on Bitcoin main network. But take note none of them are part of Bitcoin protocol. They create their own rule (which isn't verified by Bitcoin node/miner) and hope other people follow it.

alexinthesky

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Quote from: pooya87 on May 23, 2024, 12:57:26 AM

It depends on what you mean by "on Bitcoin"!

Bitcoin protocol and its smart contracts does not have the option to create NFT, DeFi or any other token. So if anybody is claiming they've created a token "on Bitcoin" and are trying to sell it to you, that's a clear case of a scam.
The best example of it is the Ordinals which is the biggest ongoing scam.

However, there are sidechains available that are tied to bitcoin but aren't actually "on Bitcoin" (more like pegged to bitcoin) that have the protocol for more complex smart contracts and allow token creation. They are not scams.
Off the top of my head I can name RootStock (RSK) as an example of such networks.

Quote from: windrunnersylvanas on May 22, 2024, 05:45:24 PM

will be success

I don't think so.
Tokens existed for years in this world and they have not had any kind of meaningful success so far. Their only purpose have always been to raise funds, scam people and/or be used for pump and dumps. They have served no other purpose in the real world. So we can't really imagine any success for them in the future either, regardless of where they are built.

I understand your point. It seems there might be some confusion between native Bitcoin capabilities and sidechains like RootStock (RSK), which offer more advanced functionalities without being scams.

windrunnersylvanas

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on May 22, 2024, 05:59:22 PM

Layer 2 is different from what you are asking question about. Layer 2 will refer to something like bitcoin lightning network, or the drive/spider chain. These are different from bitcoin tokens like Ordinals NFTs, BRC20 tokens and Runes.

What I noticed about the bitcoin tokens is that you should only use them to gamble. Their prices can increase significantly and decrease significantly just like altcoins.

so those Ordinals NFTs, BRC20 tokens and Runes are not on layer 2?

pooya87

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It depends on what you mean by "on Bitcoin"!

Bitcoin protocol and its smart contracts does not have the option to create NFT, DeFi or any other token. So if anybody is claiming they've created a token "on Bitcoin" and are trying to sell it to you, that's a clear case of a scam.
The best example of it is the Ordinals which is the biggest ongoing scam.

However, there are sidechains available that are tied to bitcoin but aren't actually "on Bitcoin" (more like pegged to bitcoin) that have the protocol for more complex smart contracts and allow token creation. They are not scams.
Off the top of my head I can name RootStock (RSK) as an example of such networks.

Quote from: windrunnersylvanas on May 22, 2024, 05:45:24 PM

will be success

I don't think so.
Tokens existed for years in this world and they have not had any kind of meaningful success so far. Their only purpose have always been to raise funds, scam people and/or be used for pump and dumps. They have served no other purpose in the real world. So we can't really imagine any success for them in the future either, regardless of where they are built.

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Quote from: windrunnersylvanas on May 22, 2024, 05:45:24 PM

I'm doubt that DeFi, AI, NFT & Gaming on Bitcoin will be success .. What do you really think about these narratives called Layer 2 And Defi on Bitcoin?

You have to look at it deeper like is DeFi, AI, NFT & Gaming altcoin projects are scam?

Because scam or not, it starts with core idea to build up those projects as bad product ideas will lead to bad products, little or no use case and utility for the products, tokens. No actual intrinsic value, no chance to gain good price on the market.

Altcoin blockchains or Bitcoin blockchain is only infrastructure on which those projects built but altcoin or Bitcoin blockchain does not decide these project's value and their token's value.

boyptc

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Those projects should just choose another network than of choosing BRC20 or ordinals or runes protocol.

They're probably going to succeed but only for a few days or weeks. And don't add anymore to the clogging of Bitcoin's network as they are only causing the fee to go up.

Charles-Tim

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Layer 2 is different from what you are asking question about. Layer 2 will refer to something like bitcoin lightning network, or the drive/spider chain. These are different from bitcoin tokens like Ordinals NFTs, BRC20 tokens and Runes.

What I noticed about the bitcoin tokens is that you should only use them to gamble. Their prices can increase significantly and decrease significantly just like altcoins.

windrunnersylvanas

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I'm doubt that DeFi, AI, NFT & Gaming on Bitcoin will be success .. What do you really think about these narratives called Layer 2 And Defi on Bitcoin?

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