"Deflation" in Europe is actually Inflation in disguise - page 3.

Erdogan

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Quote from: GreenStox on May 06, 2015, 04:23:02 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

I don't see massive inflation coming for the simple reason that all the free borrowed money as well as the bulk of income and gains in income are going to the top layer which is more intent on buying assets rather than spending at the super market.

When people don't have jobs or jobs that pay well its hard to see an explosion in prices.

Yes but contrary to the gains, inflation does trickle down. Any printing of money instantly devalues the currency, doesn't matter if it's spend in the grocery store.

Stock inflation is yes proportionally higher than average goods, but we are nontheless robbed aswell.

Appreciating money value is automatically and instantly distributed to all holders of money. No tickling up or trickling down. The moneyprinters would love that, it should kickstart that economy. If only they knew.

GreenStox

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Quote from: ?? on ??

I don't see massive inflation coming for the simple reason that all the free borrowed money as well as the bulk of income and gains in income are going to the top layer which is more intent on buying assets rather than spending at the super market.

When people don't have jobs or jobs that pay well its hard to see an explosion in prices.

Yes but contrary to the gains, inflation does trickle down. Any printing of money instantly devalues the currency, doesn't matter if it's spend in the grocery store.

Stock inflation is yes proportionally higher than average goods, but we are nontheless robbed aswell.

V for Varoufakis

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No, deflation is deflation and inflation is inflation. Fin Mins of EU need to change job. Cleaning toilets is a good job for them. lol

GreenStox

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Quote from: techgeek on May 05, 2015, 12:41:13 AM

That reminds me of almost every bag of chips these days is the same as well.

They want to make the same profit or a bit more, with half the product. Companies who do this are still rich as hell, which I can never understand the level of greed but then again comparing to banks they seem a smaller player.

As for hiding inflation, I think its just all around. You see more outsourced things that costed companies without totally ruining the product still.

Yes thanks for bringing up: OUTSOURCING

You know why the EU pushes for common european workforce, very simple. The same thing in America , bringing companies into China and India.

They want to get cheap labor so that the production cost would be less. Of course the price of the final goods won't be cheaper, because the inflation will grow. In fact it will grow, it's just that it wont grow in an exponential way, halting hyperinflation, but nevertheless, it wont stop it.

So OUTSOURCING is just another covert way to hide inflation.

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Quote from: aso118 on May 05, 2015, 10:49:05 AM

Quote from: Amph on May 05, 2015, 03:30:09 AM

deflation is when a currency have greater purchasing power(it could be because the price of goods as dropped)

It could be? What are the other reasons for a currency to have greater purchasing power?

Through the whole 19th century the gold backed currencies have been constantly appreciating because of the technological advances (two industrial revolutions within the century) which allowed producers manufacture more goods while incurring less costs per unit. So greater purchasing power of a currency may be due to more efficient production...

Amph

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Quote from: aso118 on May 05, 2015, 10:49:05 AM

Quote from: Amph on May 05, 2015, 03:30:09 AM

deflation is when a currency have greater purchasing power(it could be because the price of goods as dropped)

It could be? What are the other reasons for a currency to have greater purchasing power?

another one maybe is limited supply, or purposely destroying it to raise its value

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Quote from: Amph on May 05, 2015, 03:30:09 AM

deflation is when a currency have greater purchasing power(it could be because the price of goods as dropped)

It could be? What are the other reasons for a currency to have greater purchasing power?

thejaytiesto

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There are two types of deflation, falling prices through increases in productivity, and a collapse in the money supply of fractional reserve bank system due to non performing loans and bailins. The Fed is right to fear deflation under the current system. The fix is changing the system.

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Quote from: vvv8 on May 04, 2015, 11:20:43 PM

Quote from: thejaytiesto on May 04, 2015, 12:29:16 PM

There are two types of deflation, falling prices through increases in productivity, and a collapse in the money supply of fractional reserve bank system due to non performing loans and bailins. The Fed is right to fear deflation under the current system. The fix is changing the system.

Falling prices from an increase in production is not deflation ROFL;

It is either

A) A readjustment of equilibrium price based on the increase in supply over demand.

or

B) Economies of scale, which have allowed a producer to gain the benefit of a lower production cost.

Fed fear deflation? Lol what a funny point of view....lol

make it simple please, it work in this way

deflation is when a currency have greater purchasing power(it could be because the price of goods as dropped)

inflation the contrary, when a currency have a lower purchasing power(because the price of goods is raised), the rest are semantic bullshit

techgeek

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Quote from: GreenStox on May 03, 2015, 08:22:31 PM

Quote from: Meuh6879 on May 03, 2015, 08:17:42 PM

In europe, price are stable ... but weight of package decrease by 1/3.
so, we have 30% of inflation since 2 years ... Roll Eyes

and no, it's not only on the ravioli steel box ... Grin

Thats also a nice way to hide inflation, shrink-flation.

I remember buying a pack of cereal when i was 8 years old, it was full, now they pack only a quarter of it, the rest of it is the package and the air.

Also i was eating chocolate a few days ago and it tasted horribly bad, i remember eating chocolate in my teens, and it tasted so good.

They change the ingredients to crappy and cheaper ingredients.

A nice brilliant way to hide inflation.

And then you blame the capitalists for giving you shitty products, when its the corporatist-fascist banksters fault (damn you fucking banksters!) Cheesy

That reminds me of almost every bag of chips these days is the same as well.

They want to make the same profit or a bit more, with half the product. Companies who do this are still rich as hell, which I can never understand the level of greed but then again comparing to banks they seem a smaller player.

As for hiding inflation, I think its just all around. You see more outsourced things that costed companies without totally ruining the product still.

vvv8

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Quote from: thejaytiesto on May 04, 2015, 12:29:16 PM

There are two types of deflation, falling prices through increases in productivity, and a collapse in the money supply of fractional reserve bank system due to non performing loans and bailins. The Fed is right to fear deflation under the current system. The fix is changing the system.

Falling prices from an increase in production is not deflation ROFL;

It is either

A) A readjustment of equilibrium price based on the increase in supply over demand.

or

B) Economies of scale, which have allowed a producer to gain the benefit of a lower production cost.

Fed fear deflation? Lol what a funny point of view....lol

Erdogan

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Quote from: AdamSmith on May 04, 2015, 06:55:06 AM

Quote from: GreenStox on May 03, 2015, 08:22:31 PM

Quote from: Meuh6879 on May 03, 2015, 08:17:42 PM

In europe, price are stable ... but weight of package decrease by 1/3.
so, we have 30% of inflation since 2 years ... Roll Eyes

and no, it's not only on the ravioli steel box ... Grin

Thats also a nice way to hide inflation, shrink-flation.

I remember buying a pack of cereal when i was 8 years old, it was full, now they pack only a quarter of it, the rest of it is the package and the air.

Also i was eating chocolate a few days ago and it tasted horribly bad, i remember eating chocolate in my teens, and it tasted so good.

They change the ingredients to crappy and cheaper ingredients.

A nice brilliant way to hide inflation.

And then you blame the capitalists for giving you shitty products, when its the corporatist-fascist banksters fault (damn you fucking banksters!) Cheesy

Yes, Mcdonalds burgers use to be bigger.

Deflated burgers.

AdamSmith

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Quote from: GreenStox on May 03, 2015, 08:22:31 PM

Quote from: Meuh6879 on May 03, 2015, 08:17:42 PM

In europe, price are stable ... but weight of package decrease by 1/3.
so, we have 30% of inflation since 2 years ... Roll Eyes

and no, it's not only on the ravioli steel box ... Grin

Thats also a nice way to hide inflation, shrink-flation.

I remember buying a pack of cereal when i was 8 years old, it was full, now they pack only a quarter of it, the rest of it is the package and the air.

Also i was eating chocolate a few days ago and it tasted horribly bad, i remember eating chocolate in my teens, and it tasted so good.

They change the ingredients to crappy and cheaper ingredients.

A nice brilliant way to hide inflation.

And then you blame the capitalists for giving you shitty products, when its the corporatist-fascist banksters fault (damn you fucking banksters!) Cheesy

Yes, Mcdonalds burgers use to be bigger.

GreenStox

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Quote from: Meuh6879 on May 03, 2015, 08:17:42 PM

In europe, price are stable ... but weight of package decrease by 1/3.
so, we have 30% of inflation since 2 years ... Roll Eyes

and no, it's not only on the ravioli steel box ... Grin

Thats also a nice way to hide inflation, shrink-flation.

I remember buying a pack of cereal when i was 8 years old, it was full, now they pack only a quarter of it, the rest of it is the package and the air.

Also i was eating chocolate a few days ago and it tasted horribly bad, i remember eating chocolate in my teens, and it tasted so good.

They change the ingredients to crappy and cheaper ingredients.

A nice brilliant way to hide inflation.

And then you blame the capitalists for giving you shitty products, when its the corporatist-fascist banksters fault (damn you fucking banksters!) Cheesy

Meuh6879

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In europe, price are stable ... but weight of package decrease by 1/3.
so, we have 30% of inflation since 2 years ... Roll Eyes

and no, it's not only on the ravioli steel box ... Grin

example: in only 1 year, price per kilogram have rise from 7,6-8,2 to ... 9,8 euros per kg for the majority of snack (TV meal).

GreenStox

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Quote from: odolvlobo on May 03, 2015, 06:15:47 PM

Quote from: Hawker on May 03, 2015, 05:15:50 PM

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=define+deflation&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=-o5GVZ7aNtffaqTUgZgI#q=define:+deflation

Deflation is the "reduction of the general level of prices in an economy."

OP wants to change the definition of deflation since the reality of it doesn't suit his agenda.

If you look up the original definition of inflation and deflation, you will find that it is defined as the increase and decrease in the money supply.

1913 definition according to Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary

Quote from: http://machaut.uchicago.edu/?resource=Webster%27s&word=inflation&use1913=on

Inflation (Page: 760)

In*fla"tion (?), n. [L. inflatio: cf. F. inflation.]

1. The act or process of inflating, or the state of being inflated, as with air or gas; distention; expansion; enlargement. Boyle.

2. The state of being puffed up, as with pride; conceit; vanity. B. Jonson.

3. Undue expansion or increase, from overissue; -- said of currency. [U.S.]

Webster’s 1983 Definition of Inflation

Quote

An increase in the amount of currency in circulation, resulting in a relatively sharp and sudden fall in its value and rise in prices: it may be caused by an increase in the volume of paper money issued or of gold mined, or a relative increase in expenditures as when the supply of goods fails to meet the demand.

Quote

Inflation: A persistent increase in the level of consumer prices or a persistent decline in the purchasing power of money, caused by an increase in available currency and credit beyond the proportion of available goods and services.

Yes that is correct, i dont know why people cant get it.

Price increase is not equal to inflation, deal with it!

Now you can get lowering prices in a deflationary enviroment, let's say the CB print money like madman, but the prices go down? Why, maybe because technology let them find ways to lower the production cost and make it more efficient, or they just increased the supply.

Doest this mean that inflation is not present? Well from a consumer standpoint his daily purchases wont be affected, but if that economy is based on imports, then start praying guys?

You see an autarky economy would never experience inflation, but almost every country in the world now has massive trade deficits, so that is the fact. Hyperinflation will come, and poor basterds will lose everything.

GreenStox

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Quote from: peeveepee on May 03, 2015, 12:42:01 AM

Quote from: GreenStox on May 02, 2015, 11:05:43 PM

Quote from: aso118 on May 02, 2015, 09:39:16 PM

Nobody can be certain that there would be a market for crude after 50-100 years. If alternative technologies like fuel cells / renewable energy sources take off, crude can plummet real quickly. So Saudis are not wrong in trying to make the most out of today's market.

Yea but they surely run a big oil cartel and powerful lobby groups that try to slow down all progress in alternative energy.

There is already a technology that can power the whole planet with almost free energy: natural gas created from algaes.

Of course the cartel doesnt like it.

There are many over hype alternative energy. If these technologies are efficient, many can do it at home.

Grow algae in your swimming pool or how? You need big containers and aquatic plants to do this, which need 100 millions of $ investments, however you probably also need some government permit, which *you guessed it* the government wont give you because the oil cartel bought the politicians

odolvlobo

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Quote from: Hawker on May 03, 2015, 05:15:50 PM

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=define+deflation&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=-o5GVZ7aNtffaqTUgZgI#q=define:+deflation

Deflation is the "reduction of the general level of prices in an economy."

OP wants to change the definition of deflation since the reality of it doesn't suit his agenda.

If you look up the original definition of inflation and deflation, you will find that it is defined as the increase and decrease in the money supply.

1913 definition according to Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary

Quote from: http://machaut.uchicago.edu/?resource=Webster%27s&word=inflation&use1913=on

Inflation (Page: 760)

In*fla"tion (?), n. [L. inflatio: cf. F. inflation.]

1. The act or process of inflating, or the state of being inflated, as with air or gas; distention; expansion; enlargement. Boyle.

2. The state of being puffed up, as with pride; conceit; vanity. B. Jonson.

3. Undue expansion or increase, from overissue; -- said of currency. [U.S.]

Webster’s 1983 Definition of Inflation

Quote

An increase in the amount of currency in circulation, resulting in a relatively sharp and sudden fall in its value and rise in prices: it may be caused by an increase in the volume of paper money issued or of gold mined, or a relative increase in expenditures as when the supply of goods fails to meet the demand.

Quote

Inflation: A persistent increase in the level of consumer prices or a persistent decline in the purchasing power of money, caused by an increase in available currency and credit beyond the proportion of available goods and services.

vvv8

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Quote from: Hawker on May 03, 2015, 05:15:50 PM

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=define+deflation&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=-o5GVZ7aNtffaqTUgZgI#q=define:+deflation

Deflation is the "reduction of the general level of prices in an economy."

OP wants to change the definition of deflation since the reality of it doesn't suit his agenda.

The general level? How or what is the "general level" ? There are too many commodities in a nations market to be measured. Sure, some might fall in price, but others will rise.

You can take the average, but it doesn't matter. Why? Because while some entities will be interested in purchasing goods or services which have fallen in price, other entities will be focused on commodities which have risen in price. One entities reality, is different to anothers. One guy can tell you there's inflation because of his experience, the other will tell you there's deflation.

That's why your copy pasted definition is garbage, something to steer you away in some silly direction that is meaningless.

Inflation should strictly be looked at from a monetary asset point of view, because the purchasing power value of the wad of cash you got in your pocket is all that matters to YOU.

Hawker

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https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=define+deflation&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=-o5GVZ7aNtffaqTUgZgI#q=define:+deflation

Deflation is the "reduction of the general level of prices in an economy."

OP wants to change the definition of deflation since the reality of it doesn't suit his agenda.

Topic: "Deflation" in Europe is actually Inflation in disguise - page 3. (Read 5884 times)