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Topic: del - page 3. (Read 9448 times)

member
Activity: 61
Merit: 10
September 07, 2011, 10:44:42 AM
#48
Other factors besides video card usage.  Other computer components, fans, and air conditioning.  If you air condition your home any energy that goes into the home is just as costly to extract from the home.  In the winter it may make more sense but if you are using 200 watts as your metric, you are way off.

I was just trying to keep it simple. I have a rig of 4 5830's that pull 900 watts from the wall that's 225 per card (if you average in the watts used by mobo and cpu ect.) If you add a 5th or 6th card to the rig it goes very close to 200 watts each. So that part of what I was saying is correct.

When you say you need air conditioning that's not entirely true. You can throw your rigs in a basement and they will be perfectly fine with out ac and you wont be effected that much by the heat. If a basement is not an option then I'll point out that opening the window now is its own form of ac for the northern states. It gets to between 50-60 degrees at night which is as low as any ac will go. During the day it doesn't really get hotter then 80 degrees so you could just suck it up and not use ac because the computers wont be harmed it will just be a discomfort for your self. This discomfort will slowly go away though as it gets colder.

Any other factors I should take into account?

I never said "you need air conditioning", I said "if you air condition your home".  Putting it in the basement is irrelevant unless your basement is separately insulated as hot air rises and will end up upstairs otherwise.  It is a simple energy in, energy out equation.  If you put 900 watts in, in the form of waste heat your AC has to pull those 900 watts out.

With winter approaching this is not much of an issue.  In the winter months that extra waste heat is good as it reduces your heat bill.  I also live in a northern climate and this week has been < 70 degrees, but last week topped out at 95.  This year is probably the first that I am looking forward to winter.
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1005
September 07, 2011, 10:42:59 AM
#47

Other factors besides video card usage.  Other computer components, fans, and air conditioning.  If you air condition your home any energy that goes into the home is just as costly to extract from the home.  In the winter it may make more sense but if you are using 200 watts as your metric, you are way off.

I was just trying to keep it simple. I have a rig of 4 5830's that pull 900 watts from the wall that's 225 per card (if you average in the watts used by mobo and cpu ect.) If you add a 5th or 6th card to the rig it goes very close to 200 watts each. So that part of what I was saying is correct.

When you say you need air conditioning that's not entirely true. You can throw your rigs in a basement and they will be perfectly fine with out ac and you wont be effected that much by the heat. If a basement is not an option then I'll point out that opening the window now is its own form of ac for the northern states. It gets to between 50-60 degrees at night which is as low as any ac will go. During the day it doesn't really get hotter then 80 degrees so you could just suck it up and not use ac because the computers wont be harmed it will just be a discomfort for your self. This discomfort will slowly go away though as it gets colder.

Any other factors I should take into account?
You're making so many horrible assumptions it's not even funny.

1.  Not everyone has 4 cards in each computer.  I have a couple of rigs that I am running with only 1 card in each of them, simply because that is all the motherboards will support (and I don't want to mess with trying to get a 1x slot working).
2.  Not everyone has a basement.  I don't.  Actually, there's very few homes in Oregon that DO have a basement.
3.  Yes, I could open the window, but I don't want to.  I'd rather use A/C, because I get very uncomfortable in temperatures above 73F or so.  I also have pretty horrible allergies depending on what plants/trees/grasses are letting off their pollen.

You're completely right that a person COULD mine 30 BTC for $200 in electricity if they had $0.15/kwh electric costs.  But that doesn't mean that everyone mines that way.  For me, it really DOES take $200 in electricity (or thereabouts) to mine 30 BTC.

So take your own advice:
Get your facts straight before you start spewing bullshit.
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
September 07, 2011, 10:21:02 AM
#46
Other factors besides video card usage.  Other computer components, fans, and air conditioning.  If you air condition your home any energy that goes into the home is just as costly to extract from the home.  In the winter it may make more sense but if you are using 200 watts as your metric, you are way off.

I was just trying to keep it simple. I have a rig of 4 5830's that pull 900 watts from the wall that's 225 per card (if you average in the watts used by mobo and cpu ect.) If you add a 5th or 6th card to the rig it goes very close to 200 watts each. So that part of what I was saying is correct.

When you say you need air conditioning that's not entirely true. You can throw your rigs in a basement and they will be perfectly fine with out ac and you wont be effected that much by the heat. If a basement is not an option then I'll point out that opening the window now is its own form of ac for the northern states. It gets to between 50-60 degrees at night which is as low as any ac will go. During the day it doesn't really get hotter then 80 degrees so you could just suck it up and not use ac because the computers wont be harmed it will just be a discomfort for your self. This discomfort will slowly go away though as it gets colder.

Any other factors I should take into account?
member
Activity: 61
Merit: 10
September 07, 2011, 10:06:43 AM
#45
For example:
to mine 30 btc, you'll need to pay $200 in electricity (roughly)

That's completely wrong. Let's take one of the most inefficient cards when it comes to electricity the 5830. A 5830 at most requires 200 watts and at the current diff it mines 0.1867 BTC a day. That means it would take 160.68 days to reach 30 btc. Using the average electricity cost for the united states which is 15 cents per kwh it would cost $115.69 dollars not $200.

If you use a more efficient card on electricity it would be even lower. If your electricity costs less then 15 cents per kwh it will be lower.

Get your facts straight before you start spewing bullshit.

Other factors besides video card usage.  Other computer components, fans, and air conditioning.  If you air condition your home any energy that goes into the home is just as costly to extract from the home.  In the winter it may make more sense but if you are using 200 watts as your metric, you are way off.
hero member
Activity: 642
Merit: 500
September 06, 2011, 11:49:11 PM
#44
Looking at some colo in ID, cheapest electric in country supposedly.
Is not.  Go away.  Cheesy
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
September 06, 2011, 05:29:23 PM
#43
I've turned my mining off for now - might turn it on again if it gets cold enough for free heat though.
full member
Activity: 125
Merit: 100
September 06, 2011, 05:21:06 PM
#42
I'm in Southern Cal and it's also about $7 in electricity to make a BTC.

Looking at some colo in ID, cheapest electric in country supposedly.

full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
September 06, 2011, 05:10:54 PM
#41
for me the electricity cost about 0,21€/KW that dont include VAT the monthly fee and other tax crap that make 30% of my bill
Ah that makes sense. .2938 (in usd) per kwh is extremely expensive. It sucks that the majority of Europe charges that much in electricity.
donator
Activity: 1731
Merit: 1008
September 06, 2011, 03:08:58 PM
#40
lol, yeah everybody is on 15c electricity, what a happy world. Except u r full of BS. My own electricity is 19c, and I'm in US. The poster ALREADY SAID $7 is his equilibrium point, guess what? now the price is $6.5, that means he's mining unprofitably if he's still mining, which makes my analysis completely correct. So unfortunately you are the one spewing BS.
I said the average is 15c which is true. It costs me 8.5 cents so people do live below the average. You and I are in the minority hence why I said 15. For the average American it still makes sense to mine.

Just to prove you wrong some more. Ill use the same calculations as before except switch 15 to 19c a kwh.

it requires 91 cents per day to run a 5830 at 19c per kwh
160.68/91=$176.51


You make .1867 bitcoins a day with a 5830.

(.1867*6.5)-.91=30 cents per day if you sell today

Why don't Mr "MySelf" give information on his setup, kw/$, and how he arrive with this 7$ figure.

On a strictly power cost POV, I'd say 2.50$ per btc is the average cost for an efficient GPU at 8.5c/kwh
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
September 06, 2011, 02:56:12 PM
#39
lol, yeah everybody is on 15c electricity, what a happy world. Except u r full of BS. My own electricity is 19c, and I'm in US. The poster ALREADY SAID $7 is his equilibrium point, guess what? now the price is $6.5, that means he's mining unprofitably if he's still mining, which makes my analysis completely correct. So unfortunately you are the one spewing BS.
I said the average is 15c which is true. It costs me 8.5 cents so people do live below the average. You and I are in the minority hence why I said 15. For the average American it still makes sense to mine.

Just to prove you wrong some more. Ill use the same calculations as before except switch 15 to 19c a kwh.

it requires 91 cents per day to run a 5830 at 19c per kwh
160.68/91=$176.51


You make .1867 bitcoins a day with a 5830.

(.1867*6.5)-.91=30 cents per day if you sell today
legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1003
September 06, 2011, 02:44:04 PM
#38
lol, yeah everybody is on 15c electricity, what a happy world. Except u r full of BS. My own electricity is 19c, and I'm in US. The poster ALREADY SAID $7 is his equilibrium point (if his equilibrium point is $7, that means he's paying $210 in electric for 30 BTC), guess what? now the price is $6.5, that means he's mining unprofitably if he's still mining, which makes my analysis completely correct. So unfortunately you are the one spewing BS.

For example:
to mine 30 btc, you'll need to pay $200 in electricity (roughly)

That's completely wrong. Let's take one of the most inefficient cards when it comes to electricity the 5830. A 5830 at most requires 200 watts and at the current diff it mines 0.1867 BTC a day. That means it would take 160.68 days to reach 30 btc. Using the average electricity cost for the united states which is 15 cents per kwh it would cost $115.69 dollars not $200.

If you use a more efficient card on electricity it would be even lower. If your electricity costs less then 15 cents per kwh it will be lower.

Get your facts straight before you start spewing bullshit.
donator
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1019
September 06, 2011, 01:43:46 PM
#37
ofc investments have risk but there also is point where you decide you stop investing if i dint risked i did not continue mining under 10$ because the margin(ROI was crap) was low all the btc mined under 10$ is a poor investment if i sell them now so if i keep then i take the risk of losing all/part the value put into their fabrication
there is a point where feelings/desires collide w/ cold hash math  and math will always win

(emphasis mine). I gotta write that down... "cold hash math", awesome.
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
September 06, 2011, 01:39:34 PM
#36
For example:
to mine 30 btc, you'll need to pay $200 in electricity (roughly)

That's completely wrong. Let's take one of the most inefficient cards when it comes to electricity the 5830. A 5830 at most requires 200 watts and at the current diff it mines 0.1867 BTC a day. That means it would take 160.68 days to reach 30 btc. Using the average electricity cost for the united states which is 15 cents per kwh it would cost $115.69 dollars not $200.

If you use a more efficient card on electricity it would be even lower. If your electricity costs less then 15 cents per kwh it will be lower.

Get your facts straight before you start spewing bullshit.
legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1003
September 06, 2011, 01:20:03 PM
#35
That doesn't make any sense at all. Why mine while unprofitable? when you can just buy the coins if you wanted to invest in them?

For example:
to mine 30 btc, you'll need to pay $200 in electricity (roughly)
why mine, when you can just buy 30 btc, for $195 (@ $6.5 per coin)?

...or you could mine even if the price went under $7... just waiting selling off until a higher price.
if the price is under $7 for a longer time, the difficulty would even be lower.
donator
Activity: 1731
Merit: 1008
September 06, 2011, 01:15:27 PM
#34
@ElectricMucus

Hey I'm not suggesting someone is to make his own for 100k, just that equipment from Pentium 3 era equipment still exist and It may be cheaper to run a batch on them than some may think.

legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1057
Marketing manager - GO MP
September 06, 2011, 12:06:11 PM
#33
Keep in mind that for a full-custom chip, $100k only buys you the smallest possible die size (e.g. MOSIS and TSMC shuttle runs).  That's about 5% the size of a GPU.  Obviously a full-custom chip will be more efficient than a GPU.  I doubt it will provide twenty times the hash/sec -- though consuming less than 5% of the electricity for equivalent hashspeed is perhaps believable.

I'm extremely skeptical about full-custom chips ever being an economical way to mine.  Probably the only way they matter is if some entity's goal is to sabotage bitcoin ("national security concern") and they're willing to spend amounts of money on par with the total market cap.

There is a lot of scrap wafers and old equipment being replaced.  Also to note ; an SHA-256 specific chip is not a "full-custom chips", some exist already and a cheaper one could be enviable enough in the crypto/security/gov space to create significant demand beside mining.
donator
Activity: 1731
Merit: 1008
September 06, 2011, 12:00:44 PM
#32
Keep in mind that for a full-custom chip, $100k only buys you the smallest possible die size (e.g. MOSIS and TSMC shuttle runs).  That's about 5% the size of a GPU.  Obviously a full-custom chip will be more efficient than a GPU.  I doubt it will provide twenty times the hash/sec -- though consuming less than 5% of the electricity for equivalent hashspeed is perhaps believable.

I'm extremely skeptical about full-custom chips ever being an economical way to mine.  Probably the only way they matter is if some entity's goal is to sabotage bitcoin ("national security concern") and they're willing to spend amounts of money on par with the total market cap.

There is a lot of scrap wafers and old equipment being replaced.  Also to note ; an SHA-256 specific chip is not a "full-custom chips", some exist already and a cheaper one could be enviable enough in the crypto/security/gov space to create significant demand beside mining.
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1057
Marketing manager - GO MP
September 06, 2011, 11:55:43 AM
#31
And $6 to $4 will be a 33% drop, big whoopings  Roll Eyes
 Tongue
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
September 06, 2011, 11:51:28 AM
#30
Dang... It hit almost $6 today.... will this drop ever end?  ~$2 in 2 days .... what the heck is going on?  Is everyone pulling out?  This feels like a big sham!

Actually, people are forgetting that this is a large percentage drop.

Dropping from $14 to $12 is NOT the same thing as dropping from $8 to $6!

$8 to $6 is a 25% drop.
$14 to $12 is only a 14.2% drop.

newbie
Activity: 30
Merit: 0
September 06, 2011, 11:50:50 AM
#29
when next summer come ASICs will be around the corner.

For the average people that don't have 100k $ to invest in an ASIC setup, I'd say the current price is a good opportunity.

Keep in mind that for a full-custom chip, $100k only buys you the smallest possible die size (e.g. MOSIS and TSMC shuttle runs).  That's about 5% the size of a GPU.  Obviously a full-custom chip will be more efficient than a GPU.  I doubt it will provide twenty times the hash/sec -- though consuming less than 5% of the electricity for equivalent hashspeed is perhaps believable.

I'm extremely skeptical about full-custom chips ever being an economical way to mine.  Probably the only way they matter is if some entity's goal is to sabotage bitcoin ("national security concern") and they're willing to spend amounts of money on par with the total market cap.
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