Topic: del - page 2. (Read 4689 times)

But I looked in the readme and didn't see anything about pools there, and I looked at the wiki and while it's changed a bit since I last looked there's nothing about 'nice pool to mine at'. Can you post a link? I'm not doubting you, just want a look at the context.

It says not hooped, and does in fact state it is "a nice pool to mine at" in the readme

Why this topic again? Neither side is going to listen to the other.


This is the only statement in this whole thread worth saying.

You could use the "not mined for a reason" section in the bH readme. That's a good indicator of prop pools I where I wouldn't trust the operator.

obviously, no one is going to be convinced of the other side's opinion on hopping. both sides bring up valid points, but i don't see any legal evidence to backup the claims of fraud, deception, or theft. it's just different interpretations of math. as stated by a previous post, it is more an issue of taking advantage of those not aware of certain facts about hopping, which is not illegal. why is it the responsibility of the pool to provide such information about hopping? a pool tells you its payment method which is all you need to know. information about hopping and how it works on different payout methods is freely available. heck, there are even mathematical papers written on it referred to earlier in the thread. where is the intentional deception, the fraud? is it in the pool not telling you that their pool is susceptible to hopping? this information is not hidden by the pool; it simply requires you to do a minimal amount of research. maybe if the pool didn't tell you the payment method you could claim fraud but all the math is open for anyone to see. it is the responsibility of the miner to choose their pool, and if they choose poorly because they failed to inform themselves of certain facts it remains the miner's decision and the miner's responsibility. i mine where i choose to because i can, because there are no restrictions as to how, when or where i mine. i believe that is a great asset of bitcoin.

Well, that is right of course, but how you gonna determine that trust? The only way to be certain is if you personally know the operator, otherwise. you can't trust anyone. So if you can't trust anyone you might as well swallow the bait and hope for the best, which is what I am doing.

You can argue about what hopping is (theft, fraud, efficiency, fun, etc) but one thing is true in the long run:

If you are mining in pool that is favored by hoppers because of its payout system, and you are not hoping, you are making less money.

So if you are not a hopper, leave the hopped pool or make less money.  

The main reason a proportional pool is not hopped is that the pool op is not trustworthy - for example having a rule that hopping is ok if you make a donation, and then changing this before informing anyone. Or IP banning some users without notification or even banning their accounts.

In fact, the 'proportional pools not mined for a reason' are often ones that full time miners shouldn't use. If I mined full time, I'd be leery of a pool op who I couldn't trust.

Due to breach of trust and gross negligence by Sirius and Theymos who recklessly transferred my private and personal data on this forum to a Japaneze company without my permission I am leaving this forum and deleting all my posts. Goodbye.

See you at https://bitcoin.org.uk/

'Share shopping' is still theft from the people that keep mining on long blocks.
Even slush and tycho admitted this months & months ago and created countermeasures.

Without them the hopping method becomes impossible.
So you are directly dependent on people mining there for more than 43% of a block duration 24/7.

If not 'theft', how can you say it's not at the least, taking advantage of the stupid and gullible?
That's definitely not illegal, but it will eventually disillusion many new miners when they realize their earnings are 30-40% less than expected.

Maybe a better word is embezzlement of shared funds (even if through 'legit' means).

While it hasn't happened yet, i guess my avatar is still relevant.

shouts one of the most well known hoppers on this forum...   If everyone leaves hopper friendly pools but hoppers you guys are kinda screwed arent you?  You will end up mining like everyone else for a fair and ethical payout you deserve instead of exploiting the system for your own benefit at the expense of others.

Due to breach of trust and gross negligence by Sirius and Theymos who recklessly transferred my private and personal data on this forum to a Japaneze company without my permission I am leaving this forum and deleting all my posts. Goodbye.

See you at https://bitcoin.org.uk/

Due to breach of trust and gross negligence by Sirius and Theymos who recklessly transferred my private and personal data on this forum to a Japaneze company without my permission I am leaving this forum and deleting all my posts. Goodbye.

See you at https://bitcoin.org.uk/

Due to breach of trust and gross negligence by Sirius and Theymos who recklessly transferred my private and personal data on this forum to a Japaneze company without my permission I am leaving this forum and deleting all my posts. Goodbye.

See you at https://bitcoin.org.uk/

fiduciary duty? lol by doing what forcing people to mine when it isnt profitable?.... oh i know switch off prop, despite a majority of their users want prop.. right?


remind me not to ask you for legal advice. There is no way any pool op will see any legal issue off of this, now you are just being histrionic as that is completely ridiculous. And very few pools charge a fee. There is no way you actually believe that crap, or you need to look up the law a bit more carefully. And their is zero deception, people get paid their shares just as the forumla says, no where does any pool guarantee a total hash rate. Does your pool guarantee a total hash rate?


people like you would ban selling off a stock when the share value starts to drop next to nil and then buying back stocks when they think the share value will  rise again.

It's math my friend, you can get pissed at the pool op for having prop despite their users actually want it, but when 50(myshares/totalshares) no longer makes sense to me, it no longer makes sense to me. Just like for some people money spent generating bitcoins> BTC to USD exchange rate, no longer makes sense, they stop mining and start buying. Other people, like the namecoiners are perfectly happy chugging away at 4 times diff

Due to breach of trust and gross negligence by Sirius and Theymos who recklessly transferred my private and personal data on this forum to a Japaneze company without my permission I am leaving this forum and deleting all my posts. Goodbye.

See you at https://bitcoin.org.uk/

Due to breach of trust and gross negligence by Sirius and Theymos who recklessly transferred my private and personal data on this forum to a Japaneze company without my permission I am leaving this forum and deleting all my posts. Goodbye.

See you at https://bitcoin.org.uk/forums/

i lol'd

sooner or later, the hoppers will somehow adapt to new hopping-prevention techniques.

Due to breach of trust and gross negligence by Sirius and Theymos who recklessly transferred my private and personal data on this forum to a Japaneze company without my permission I am leaving this forum and deleting all my posts. Goodbye.

See you at https://bitcoin.org.uk/forums/