Topic: [DELETE ME] 2013 Silver Casascius Coins With PGP Chains (Read 1988 times)
Locking this thread for a new one with additional coins and options!
Top offer for a set of 3 coins is 7.25BTC. I am thinking 8.25BTC and I will let one set go with PGP chained to new owner etc...
Are you willing to consider lower offer than 8.25?
Top offer for a set of 3 coins is 7.25BTC. I am thinking 8.25BTC and I will let one set go with PGP chained to new owner etc...
PM sent
Alright added some pictures...
Willing to pay above market rates for any pgp chained tenths...offering market + .5BTC - 1BTC
Willing to pay above market rates for any pgp chained tenths...offering market + .5BTC - 1BTC
Alright, I will put up some pictures. I am sort of on the fence about selling them though. I do not think I will be able to get more coins with a chain and am pretty much done selling off my extra Casascius coins these days.
Blazed,
If you change your mind please let me know. I would like a chance at acquiring the set.
Happy Holidays,
Woodson
If you change your mind please let me know. I would like a chance at acquiring the set.
Happy Holidays,
Woodson
I will just keep them for anything under 8. I am not in a rush to sell any coins honestly. Finding them with a chain is rare..
Took me over two years to collect the 4-coin set w/ docs I recently sold.
Thinking I might be better off to just keep all of them then.
Can you throw some pics in? I will make an offer
I will just keep them for anything under 8. I am not in a rush to sell any coins honestly. Finding them with a chain is rare..
Took me over two years to collect the 4-coin set w/ docs I recently sold.
Thinking I might be better off to just keep all of them then.
I will just keep them for anything under 8. I am not in a rush to sell any coins honestly. Finding them with a chain is rare..
Took me over two years to collect the 4-coin set w/ docs I recently sold.
So far the best offer is @ 7. I will add pictures ASAP (forgot). They look the same as all the others though 
I'd value this set at 7.5-10 BTC at this point in time. 7 would be a steal.
I will just keep them for anything under 8. I am not in a rush to sell any coins honestly. Finding them with a chain is rare..
So far the best offer is @ 7. I will add pictures ASAP (forgot). They look the same as all the others though
I'd value this set at 7.5-10 BTC at this point in time. 7 would be a steal.
I agree that 1BTC per coin is pretty pricey for the documentation. I think something like an extra .5BTC - 1BTC for a set of coins is more realistic.
My time is worth what it's worth. 1BTC is pretty steep but I'm the only remaining source for one-nub chains.
FWIW I paid smoothie 0.5 BTC per coin for docs on three coins recently -- 1.5 BTC total.
You think 1 BTC is expensive, just wait until you see how much I charge someone who turned down free docs two years ago and wants them now
so how much is it worth for a 2013 1BTC silver/gold coin that has full documentation that I am the first/only owner of the coin directly from Mike? I even have photogrpahic proof of opening up the roll, and retained the original shipping box
Did Mike PGP chain the coins over to you? Or do you just have a scan from him with pics of the coins?
I have everything. PGP, back-and-forth emails, scan of the coins, original packaging, etc
Coins were only ever handled once, using a fresh pair of nitrile gloves to move them to airtites.
So far the best offer is @ 7. I will add pictures ASAP (forgot). They look the same as all the others though
Did you add pictures? Apologies on a mobile. Could be the issue.
Thanks,
W
Thanks,
W
I agree that 1BTC per coin is pretty pricey for the documentation. I think something like an extra .5BTC - 1BTC for a set of coins is more realistic. I was hoping to get an offer for 1 set with PGP. I am keeping all of the rest for my own personal collection.
1 set:
2013 Casascius Silver Single MS-68
2013 Casascius Silver/Gilt Single MS-68
2013 Casascius Silver Half MS-68
All 3 come with a chain where I am the 2nd owner (all 3 coins came from the same source who bought rolls from Mike). Whoever buys them will get the chain extended to them as part of the trade.
The problem with using ANACS is the fakes could be around for 6+ months before anyone even knows. How would you catch a fake considering we never redeem them?
1 set:
2013 Casascius Silver Single MS-68
2013 Casascius Silver/Gilt Single MS-68
2013 Casascius Silver Half MS-68
All 3 come with a chain where I am the 2nd owner (all 3 coins came from the same source who bought rolls from Mike). Whoever buys them will get the chain extended to them as part of the trade.
The problem with using ANACS is the fakes could be around for 6+ months before anyone even knows. How would you catch a fake considering we never redeem them?
Care to price out the 3-coin collection? I am interested.
Nubbins have been talking shit about ANACS for years, he say that they cannot be trusted.
Example:
http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-otc/logs/2013/12/31
The chain is broken as soon as the coin is in custody of someone not able to sign and extend the chain.
Example:
http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-otc/logs/2013/12/31
Quote from: Nubbins
(c) i don't trust ANACS enough
The chain is broken as soon as the coin is in custody of someone not able to sign and extend the chain.
Sorry for the thread hijack. A couple of things:
-Your "quote" is attributed to "Nubbins", which is neither my forum handle (no capitals), nor does it match the nickname (trailing `) in the provided link.
-Who says that's me on irc? That ` character looks scammy.
-Are you a stalker or did you happen to just have a quip from two years ago bookmarked?
-Why not ask me what I think about it? I'm right here.
FWIW the chain is not broken if the coin is handled by the mail service or couriers because they don't know it's a Casascius coin. If a shipped coin arrives undisturbed (and you didn't stupidly write "Casascius coin" on the package), I'd consider the custody chain intact.
Also FWIW -- and I still stand by my claim that ANACS sucks and only IDIOTS buy coins based on the grade and not the condition of the coin itself -- but since ANACS records video of all coins from the moment they arrive til the moment they leave, I'd still consider the custody chain unbroken. The owner who sent the coin for grading should include particulars in their custody docs: dates, ref numbers, etc.
ANACS sucks. They gave a damaged coin a PERFECT ms70 grade.
ANACS sucks.
I actually agree with nubbins on everything here. Not because of his excuse that mail carriers are ignorant to what they're carrying but because of how I interpret the word custody. It is a matter of responsibility not a level of physical possession.
If one were to argue that you need to be in continuous physical possession of a coin in order to maintain the chain of custody, then technically you would lose possession anytime you left you house and the coin was stored in a safe, as it would be theoretically possible (although very unlikely) that someone could break into your home, crack your safe, replace your coin with a fake one, then close/lock your safe and leave. The same would apply with a safety deposit box.
I do think that trips to ANACS should be disclosed when extending PGP chains in the event that someone at ANACS turns out to be a fraudster/thief, then those relying on such PGP chains can act accordingly.
I agree that 1BTC per coin is pretty pricey for the documentation. I think something like an extra .5BTC - 1BTC for a set of coins is more realistic.
My time is worth what it's worth. 1BTC is pretty steep but I'm the only remaining source for one-nub chains.
FWIW I paid smoothie 0.5 BTC per coin for docs on three coins recently -- 1.5 BTC total.
You think 1 BTC is expensive, just wait until you see how much I charge someone who turned down free docs two years ago and wants them now
so how much is it worth for a 2013 1BTC silver/gold coin that has full documentation that I am the first/only owner of the coin directly from Mike? I even have photogrpahic proof of opening up the roll, and retained the original shipping box
Did Mike PGP chain the coins over to you? Or do you just have a scan from him with pics of the coins?
I agree that 1BTC per coin is pretty pricey for the documentation. I think something like an extra .5BTC - 1BTC for a set of coins is more realistic.
My time is worth what it's worth. 1BTC is pretty steep but I'm the only remaining source for one-nub chains.
FWIW I paid smoothie 0.5 BTC per coin for docs on three coins recently -- 1.5 BTC total.
You think 1 BTC is expensive, just wait until you see how much I charge someone who turned down free docs two years ago and wants them now
so how much is it worth for a 2013 1BTC silver/gold coin that has full documentation that I am the first/only owner of the coin directly from Mike? I even have photogrpahic proof of opening up the roll, and retained the original shipping box
Nubbins have been talking shit about ANACS for years, he say that they cannot be trusted.
Example:
http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-otc/logs/2013/12/31
The chain is broken as soon as the coin is in custody of someone not able to sign and extend the chain.
Example:
http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-otc/logs/2013/12/31
Quote from: Nubbins
(c) i don't trust ANACS enough
The chain is broken as soon as the coin is in custody of someone not able to sign and extend the chain.
Sorry for the thread hijack. A couple of things:
-Your "quote" is attributed to "Nubbins", which is neither my forum handle (no capitals), nor does it match the nickname (trailing `) in the provided link.
-Who says that's me on irc? That ` character looks scammy.
-Are you a stalker or did you happen to just have a quip from two years ago bookmarked?
-Why not ask me what I think about it? I'm right here.
FWIW the chain is not broken if the coin is handled by the mail service or couriers because they don't know it's a Casascius coin. If a shipped coin arrives undisturbed (and you didn't stupidly write "Casascius coin" on the package), I'd consider the custody chain intact.
Also FWIW -- and I still stand by my claim that ANACS sucks and only IDIOTS buy coins based on the grade and not the condition of the coin itself -- but since ANACS records video of all coins from the moment they arrive til the moment they leave, I'd still consider the custody chain unbroken. The owner who sent the coin for grading should include particulars in their custody docs: dates, ref numbers, etc.
ANACS sucks. They gave a damaged coin a PERFECT ms70 grade.
ANACS sucks.
I actually agree with nubbins on everything here. Not because of his excuse that mail carriers are ignorant to what they're carrying but because of how I interpret the word custody. It is a matter of responsibility not a measure of physical possession.
Nubbins have been talking shit about ANACS for years, he say that they cannot be trusted.
Example:
http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-otc/logs/2013/12/31
The chain is broken as soon as the coin is in custody of someone not able to sign and extend the chain.
Example:
http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-otc/logs/2013/12/31
Quote from: Nubbins
(c) i don't trust ANACS enough
The chain is broken as soon as the coin is in custody of someone not able to sign and extend the chain.
Sorry for the thread hijack. A couple of things:
-Your "quote" is attributed to "Nubbins", which is neither my forum handle (no capitals), nor does it match the nickname (trailing `) in the provided link.
-Who says that's me on irc? That ` character looks scammy.
-Are you a stalker or did you happen to just have a quip from two years ago bookmarked?
-Why not ask me what I think about it? I'm right here.
FWIW the chain is not broken if the coin is handled by the mail service or couriers because they don't know it's a Casascius coin. If a shipped coin arrives undisturbed (and you didn't stupidly write "Casascius coin" on the package), I'd consider the custody chain intact.
Also FWIW -- and I still stand by my claim that ANACS sucks and only IDIOTS buy coins based on the grade and not the condition of the coin itself -- but since ANACS records video of all coins from the moment they arrive til the moment they leave, I'd still consider the custody chain unbroken. The owner who sent the coin for grading should include particulars in their custody docs: dates, ref numbers, etc.
ANACS sucks. They gave a damaged coin a PERFECT ms70 grade.
ANACS sucks.
I agree that 1BTC per coin is pretty pricey for the documentation. I think something like an extra .5BTC - 1BTC for a set of coins is more realistic.
My time is worth what it's worth. 1BTC is pretty steep but I'm the only remaining source for one-nub chains.
FWIW I paid smoothie 0.5 BTC per coin for docs on three coins recently -- 1.5 BTC total.
You think 1 BTC is expensive, just wait until you see how much I charge someone who turned down free docs two years ago and wants them now
I assume a scammer could easily buy a coin with a chain and then make a fake coin with the same first bits. Since the PGP chain is just a file, it is very easy to duplicate. In that case both coins would look legitimate. If my assumption is correct then the PGP chain is, IMHO, useless.
Someone doesn't understand what they're talking about
I agree that 1BTC per coin is pretty pricey for the documentation. I think something like an extra .5BTC - 1BTC for a set of coins is more realistic. I was hoping to get an offer for 1 set with PGP. I am keeping all of the rest for my own personal collection.
1 set:
2013 Casascius Silver Single MS-68
2013 Casascius Silver/Gilt Single MS-68
2013 Casascius Silver Half MS-68
All 3 come with a chain where I am the 2nd owner (all 3 coins came from the same source who bought rolls from Mike). Whoever buys them will get the chain extended to them as part of the trade.
The problem with using ANACS is the fakes could be around for 6+ months before anyone even knows. How would you catch a fake considering we never redeem them?
1 set:
2013 Casascius Silver Single MS-68
2013 Casascius Silver/Gilt Single MS-68
2013 Casascius Silver Half MS-68
All 3 come with a chain where I am the 2nd owner (all 3 coins came from the same source who bought rolls from Mike). Whoever buys them will get the chain extended to them as part of the trade.
The problem with using ANACS is the fakes could be around for 6+ months before anyone even knows. How would you catch a fake considering we never redeem them?
Has anyone actually found a fake Casascius?
If Bitcoin were to ever reach 2-3k in value you better believe China will starting making them.
Just a thought...I would offer that any Casascius coin graded by ANACS before the first documented counterfeits turn up, could be considered just as authentic as any chain-of-custody coin. This approach, along with an extensive global network of authentication processes and experts, is the method in which the traditional sports card collecting industry handles counterfeiting. The challenges associated with counterfeiting go back ages and spans countless industries...and many of those same authentication and verification procedures currently used and trusted with varying degrees of success, can be implemented for Casascius and other digital currency collectibles as well. I'm guessing that the small percentage of chain-of-custody coins in existence won't be the only ones verifiable as authentic regardless of future BTC value or volume of fakes flooding the market.
That said, at this early stage of Casascius collecting, having PGP-signed COC is certainly a nice bonus.
.........Nubbins and I both agreed that ANACS does not break the chain since they left my possession (ANACS is obviously a trusted source).
Nubbins have been talking shit about ANACS for years, he say that they cannot be trusted.
Example:
http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-otc/logs/2013/12/31
Quote from: Nubbins
(c) i don't trust ANACS enough
The chain is broken as soon as the coin is in custody of someone not able to sign and extend the chain.
By your logic nubbins never got a valid coin then. Did the mail person get included in the chain? Unless he drove and got them chain is broken? ANACS is more trusted with coins than anyone here. We almost need a clear set of rules to follow for this or a standard created. Paging nubbins...
Yes. The chain is broken as soon as the coin leave Mike.
Let's be real here. The PGP scheme is invented by Nubbins: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/thoughts-on-the-compromise-of-casascius-coin-holograms-268965
Mike addressed the problem by issuing digital signed PDF (not the same as PGP): https://casascius.wordpress.com/2013/04/28/i-am-taking-orders-again/
The scans can be used "to aid in establishing their authenticity".
Nubbins PGP signature on top is not needed.
Not really...The scans from Mike prove he made some coins with those first bits. If someone make fakes and uses the same first bits then PGP chains show who owns the real ones.
Here is the example...
-Silver Coin first bits of 123abc is created by Mike and sold with scans to someone.
-Someone creates a fake Cas coin using same first bits of 123abc
I have the coin with a PGP chain and you have the other one with no chain....which coin is real? The one that shows a chain is obviously the real coin. The entire point is to deal with fakes should they hit the market.
What PGP chains do is prove that reputable people owned the coin previously so if you trust each of the owners enough to not knowingly sell a fake coin then you would be additionally confident that the coin is not fake. I am not sure this additional assurance is going to be worth the 1btc per coin that nubbins has announced he is charging for it.
Not really...The scans from Mike prove he made some coins with those first bits. If someone make fakes and uses the same first bits then PGP chains show who owns the real ones.
Here is the example...
-Silver Coin first bits of 123abc is created by Mike and sold with scans to someone.
-Someone creates a fake Cas coin using same first bits of 123abc
I have the coin with a PGP chain and you have the other one with no chain....which coin is real? The one that shows a chain is obviously the real coin. The entire point is to deal with fakes should they hit the market.
I assume a scammer could easily buy a coin with a chain and then make a fake coin with the same first bits. Since the PGP chain is just a file, it is very easy to duplicate. In that case both coins would look legitimate. If my assumption is correct then the PGP chain is, IMHO, useless.
Jeff.
Has anyone actually found a fake Casascius?
If Bitcoin were to ever reach 2-3k in value you better believe China will starting making them.
Has anyone actually found a fake Casascius?
There are none that imitate it perfectly, but there are some hologram fakes. You can see that they are clearly fake though.
Has anyone actually found a fake Casascius?
.........Nubbins and I both agreed that ANACS does not break the chain since they left my possession (ANACS is obviously a trusted source).
Nubbins have been talking shit about ANACS for years, he say that they cannot be trusted.
Example:
http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-otc/logs/2013/12/31
Quote from: Nubbins
(c) i don't trust ANACS enough
The chain is broken as soon as the coin is in custody of someone not able to sign and extend the chain.
By your logic nubbins never got a valid coin then. Did the mail person get included in the chain? Unless he drove and got them chain is broken? ANACS is more trusted with coins than anyone here. We almost need a clear set of rules to follow for this or a standard created. Paging nubbins...
Yes. The chain is broken as soon as the coin leave Mike.
Let's be real here. The PGP scheme is invented by Nubbins: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/thoughts-on-the-compromise-of-casascius-coin-holograms-268965
Mike addressed the problem by issuing digital signed PDF (not the same as PGP): https://casascius.wordpress.com/2013/04/28/i-am-taking-orders-again/
The scans can be used "to aid in establishing their authenticity".
Nubbins PGP signature on top is not needed.
Not really...The scans from Mike prove he made some coins with those first bits. If someone make fakes and uses the same first bits then PGP chains show who owns the real ones.
Here is the example...
-Silver Coin first bits of 123abc is created by Mike and sold with scans to someone.
-Someone creates a fake Cas coin using same first bits of 123abc
I have the coin with a PGP chain and you have the other one with no chain....which coin is real? The one that shows a chain is obviously the real coin. The entire point is to deal with fakes should they hit the market.
I'd love to see some photos, now are these coins attached to a wallet? or simply a 'show piece'?
The reason I buy my casascius from bitcoin talk is because I have trust in the members that dealt with Mike before I joined. Ognasty, Blazed, Nubbins, and many others that bought from him. I almost bought coins from Ebay, but I know its full of scammers from China, Nigeria,and other scammer countries. It really depends on what type of buyer you are. I am a collector and love the coins for their sleek design and importance of being the first physical bitcoins. If I trade coins for profit then maybe a PGP chain would be worthwhile.
.........Nubbins and I both agreed that ANACS does not break the chain since they left my possession (ANACS is obviously a trusted source).
Nubbins have been talking shit about ANACS for years, he say that they cannot be trusted.
Example:
http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-otc/logs/2013/12/31
Quote from: Nubbins
(c) i don't trust ANACS enough
The chain is broken as soon as the coin is in custody of someone not able to sign and extend the chain.
By your logic nubbins never got a valid coin then. Did the mail person get included in the chain? Unless he drove and got them chain is broken? ANACS is more trusted with coins than anyone here. We almost need a clear set of rules to follow for this or a standard created. Paging nubbins...
Yes. The chain is broken as soon as the coin leave Mike.
Let's be real here. The PGP scheme is invented by Nubbins: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/thoughts-on-the-compromise-of-casascius-coin-holograms-268965
Mike addressed the problem by issuing digital signed PDF (not the same as PGP): https://casascius.wordpress.com/2013/04/28/i-am-taking-orders-again/
The scans can be used "to aid in establishing their authenticity".
Nubbins PGP signature on top is not needed.
The chain is broken as soon as the coin is in custody of someone not able to sign and extend the chain.
There is nothing to prevent someone from signing and extending the chain. Anyone in possession of the coin should know that the coin was in ANACS's possession based on the ANACS slab, and it is up to the person relying on the chain to decide if it is broken or not. Additionally you would need to trust every person who is part of the chain to have not signed a false GPG message when the chain was extended.
In this case, I would opine that the chain is still valid presuming that the signatures check out and all parties in the chain were at least somewhat reputable as of when they extended the chain.
Yes everyone in the chain is very well known...and fun fact: They all make their own coins!
The chain is broken as soon as the coin is in custody of someone not able to sign and extend the chain.
There is nothing to prevent someone from signing and extending the chain. Anyone in possession of the coin should know that the coin was in ANACS's possession based on the ANACS slab, and it is up to the person relying on the chain to decide if it is broken or not. Additionally you would need to trust every person who is part of the chain to have not signed a false GPG message when the chain was extended.
In this case, I would opine that the chain is still valid presuming that the signatures check out and all parties in the chain were at least somewhat reputable as of when they extended the chain.
Yes everyone in the chain is very well known...and fun fact: They all make their own coins!
.........Nubbins and I both agreed that ANACS does not break the chain since they left my possession (ANACS is obviously a trusted source).
Nubbins have been talking shit about ANACS for years, he say that they cannot be trusted.
Example:
http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-otc/logs/2013/12/31
Quote from: Nubbins
(c) i don't trust ANACS enough
The chain is broken as soon as the coin is in custody of someone not able to sign and extend the chain.
By your logic nubbins never got a valid coin then. Did the mail person get included in the chain? Unless he drove and got them chain is broken? ANACS is more trusted with coins than anyone here. We almost need a clear set of rules to follow for this or a standard created. Paging nubbins...
The chain is broken as soon as the coin is in custody of someone not able to sign and extend the chain.
There is nothing to prevent someone from signing and extending the chain. Anyone in possession of the coin should know that the coin was in ANACS's possession based on the ANACS slab, and it is up to the person relying on the chain to decide if it is broken or not. Additionally you would need to trust every person who is part of the chain to have not signed a false GPG message when the chain was extended.
In this case, I would opine that the chain is still valid presuming that the signatures check out and all parties in the chain were at least somewhat reputable as of when they extended the chain.
.........Nubbins and I both agreed that ANACS does not break the chain since they left my possession (ANACS is obviously a trusted source).
Nubbins have been talking shit about ANACS for years, he say that they cannot be trusted.
Example:
http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-otc/logs/2013/12/31
Quote from: Nubbins
(c) i don't trust ANACS enough
The chain is broken as soon as the coin is in custody of someone not able to sign and extend the chain.
Sounds great. I just purchased a coin from Nubbins. I'll be back online tomorrow afternoon. Thanks Blazed.
I'm interested. Are they ANACS graded?
Yes, they are all graded MS-68 by ANACS. I will toss some pictures in the OP later this evening. Nubbins and I both agreed that ANACS does not break the chain since they left my possession (ANACS is obviously a trusted source).
I'm interested. Are they ANACS graded?
I have several coins with a complete PGP chain of ownership. I am the second owner of all of them and would be willing to extend the chains to a buyer. I am not sure that I want to sell many as these chains are rare. I must give credit to where credit is due...Nubbins! Nubbins is right about these chains if we ever find fake coins etc.. they will be the only way to be sure you own a real coin.
Taking offers on them - I will post some general prices ifI get some decent offers.
2013 Casascius Silver Singles
2013 Casascius Silver/Gilt Singles
2013 Casascius Silver Halves
Buying any 2013 Silver tenth with PGP chains...
Taking offers on them - I will post some general prices ifI get some decent offers.
2013 Casascius Silver Singles
2013 Casascius Silver/Gilt Singles
2013 Casascius Silver Halves
Buying any 2013 Silver tenth with PGP chains...
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