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About accepting zero confirmations (this seems to be a big part of this debate):
I know accepting zero confirmations will allow a tech-savvy person to, for example, create a double spend (not hard to do)... The thing is: this is basically shoplifting, it's illegal, and when somebody doing this gets caught, he/she can face jailtime.
To be honest, i don't see much difference between somebody stealing a t-shirt or somebody "paying" for a t-shirt using a low fee, and creating a double spend once he exited the shop.
To avoid shoplifting, i guess the only thing you can do is either open a webshop (so you're the only one handling your stock), or work with a counter (so your shoppers can't physically touch your goods untill you hand them over).
I understand why some shopkeepers would be willing to risk some RBF or double spend cheaters, as long as they have a security camera and log tx times, so they can hand over security images to the cops, i don't think it's that big of a deal (for small sums ofcourse)... Shopkeepers already deal with shoplifters since ages, this is just a different kind of shoplifting. This is just my own opinion tough...
I know accepting zero confirmations will allow a tech-savvy person to, for example, create a double spend (not hard to do)... The thing is: this is basically shoplifting, it's illegal, and when somebody doing this gets caught, he/she can face jailtime.
To be honest, i don't see much difference between somebody stealing a t-shirt or somebody "paying" for a t-shirt using a low fee, and creating a double spend once he exited the shop.
To avoid shoplifting, i guess the only thing you can do is either open a webshop (so you're the only one handling your stock), or work with a counter (so your shoppers can't physically touch your goods untill you hand them over).
I understand why some shopkeepers would be willing to risk some RBF or double spend cheaters, as long as they have a security camera and log tx times, so they can hand over security images to the cops, i don't think it's that big of a deal (for small sums ofcourse)... Shopkeepers already deal with shoplifters since ages, this is just a different kind of shoplifting. This is just my own opinion tough...
Even 0.001-0.00015 BTC fee doesn't help transactions to get confirmed soon.
Such arbitrary fee amounts are useless and won't guarantee anything. It seems that only a few people actually know that it comes down to the included satoshi/byte ratio[1]. In other words, a fee of 0.0001 (arbitrary) might be sufficient for transaction A of size X, but might be too low for transaction B of size Y.[1] - https://bitcoinfees.21.co/
As you that blockchain was attacked by hackers a couple of months ago by spamming the transactions hopefully they are still on it so use 0.00015+ BTC tx fee to get high priority transaction.
There are hackers who try every now and then but when a transaction takes over 24 hours, it gets irritating. I've had a transaction that took almost 36 hours and it was frustrating when the fee was over 0.001 BTC. Even 0.001-0.00015 BTC fee doesn't help transactions to get confirmed soon.
you send a BTC TX == near instant.
when he knows that merchants dont AND SHOULD NOT accept zero confirms.I have made litecoin transactions nearly instantly with zero confirmations, no reason why Bitcoin cant be, the merchant was logging my IP and obviously new how to deal with people who tried fraud
I dont think tor or anything else can protect u from gigantic corporations if they wanted to track u down,
Knowing the IP is pointless in most cases as IP != person. Additionally, those 'gigantic corporations' can't track you down easily either, unless they know how to bypass encryption (e.g. used by VPN).I dont think tor or anything else can protect u from gigantic corporations if they wanted to track u down,
Hi guys,
It seems that the Bitcoin system is soon going to collapse. On 9.37 my time I transferred 1 BTC to another wallet. Here 10 min later there is still no transactions confirmations. It's really "scary" and even something the banks can do much faster. Now almost 11 min in the first confirmation came through. I need two confirmation since it's required by C-Cex. What it means is that if you need to react fast on some currency movement and you need the BTC (sadly not RBT) you have to wait.....and wait.....
So the second confirmation came through more than 30 min later.
What does it tell you about the Bitcoin infrastructure? To me it's about to collapse.
It's simply too slow!
Unfortunately, I disagree with you and it seems like everyone who has decent knowledge will too. There's nothing wrong here and you just completely misunderstood how the system works. I mean 11 minutes off and you already panicked? I pay really low tx fees so my priority is low. It takes around 15 minutes for my tx to have a confirmation. Just relax fella. It seems that the Bitcoin system is soon going to collapse. On 9.37 my time I transferred 1 BTC to another wallet. Here 10 min later there is still no transactions confirmations. It's really "scary" and even something the banks can do much faster. Now almost 11 min in the first confirmation came through. I need two confirmation since it's required by C-Cex. What it means is that if you need to react fast on some currency movement and you need the BTC (sadly not RBT) you have to wait.....and wait.....
So the second confirmation came through more than 30 min later.
What does it tell you about the Bitcoin infrastructure? To me it's about to collapse.
It's simply too slow!
I think people will always panic. No matter how fast confirmation times would be, unless it will lightning fast with literally seconds of delay.
It is just in human nature to complain about everything. I recognize that bitcoin 10 minutes standard confirmation time is ok'ish for now but not ideal.
But claiming that it is the reason for bitcoin infrastructure collapsing is pure FUD and BS.
People just lack patience and if their transaction doesn't get confirmed in time, they began complaining and sending out support tickets. They need to understand that it depends on the network and sometimes delays can be longer. ItIt is just in human nature to complain about everything. I recognize that bitcoin 10 minutes standard confirmation time is ok'ish for now but not ideal.
But claiming that it is the reason for bitcoin infrastructure collapsing is pure FUD and BS.
happens with every currency/payment method.
I have made litecoin transactions nearly instantly with zero confirmations, no reason why Bitcoin cant be,
the merchant was logging my IP and obviously new how to deal with people who tried fraud
I dont think tor or anything else can protect u from gigantic corporations if they wanted to track
u down,
I think people will always panic. No matter how fast confirmation times would be, unless it will lightning fast with literally seconds of delay.
It is just in human nature to complain about everything. I recognize that bitcoin 10 minutes standard confirmation time is ok'ish for now but not ideal.
But claiming that it is the reason for bitcoin infrastructure collapsing is pure FUD and BS.
People just lack patience and if their transaction doesn't get confirmed in time, they began complaining and sending out support tickets. They need to understand that it depends on the network and sometimes delays can be longer. ItIt is just in human nature to complain about everything. I recognize that bitcoin 10 minutes standard confirmation time is ok'ish for now but not ideal.
But claiming that it is the reason for bitcoin infrastructure collapsing is pure FUD and BS.
happens with every currency/payment method.
you send a BTC TX == near instant.
when he knows that merchants dont AND SHOULD NOT accept zero confirms.That's not true. In several occasions I paid at merchants and they accepted the tx with zero confirmations.
that is the exception.. and not the safe rule.
"AND SHOULD NOT accept zero confirms" ...as absooute proof of payment, which defines bitcoin.
Obviously, merchants can except zero comf if they want to take you on trust.
(were these "merchants" local to you kik? were they online? Were you buying big or small?)
As Franky said, it is not the safe rule.
Either merchants have taken a risk because they know you, or because your payment was so small, or because despatch could be cancelled if comfirm failed.
Or other reasons.
But zero comf is not a done deal.
you send a BTC TX == near instant.
when he knows that merchants dont AND SHOULD NOT accept zero confirms.That's not true. In several occasions I paid at merchants and they accepted the tx with zero confirmations.
that is the exception.. and not the safe rule.
please do not tell any noobs to expect instant payments with merchants. or they will be disappointed. be realistic with safe stats on bitcoin. do not try overselling bitcoin by using the exceptions that sometimes occur.
even ignoring the naive comments of trying to suggest instant tx's should be told to noobs.. dont even try overstating confirmations either
EG, yes some blocks are solved in 2 minutes.. some blocks are formed with only a couple hundred transactions waiting in mempool, meaning that all should/could get included no matter the fee or lack of.. and some merchants accept just 1 confirmation... but
DO NOT say to expect every merchant to accept payment within 2 minutes because of the 'sometimes' exception
My last transaction was need 1 hour and usually 10-15 minutes only 
This could happen sometime but not usually. Usual time for 1 confirmation for bitcoin transaction is 10 minute that seems to fluctuate these days. Don't know the actual reason for this. However to maintain 25 bitcoins per 10 minute average time to get 1 confirmation always get maintained as 10 minute. You are confusing comf time with block prop time.
"Usual time for 1 confirmation for bitcoin transaction is 10 minute"
Usual time for next block is 10 minute.
Your comf time however depends on a range of factors.
"seems to fluctuate these days. Don't know the actual reason for this"
Clearly not.
"However to maintain 25 bitcoins per 10 minute average time to get 1 confirmation always get maintained as 10 minute."
Your confusing block prop time with comf time again!
My last transaction was need 1 hour and usually 10-15 minutes only
This could happen sometime but not usually. Usual time for 1 confirmation for bitcoin transaction is 10 minute that seems to fluctuate these days. Don't know the actual reason for this. However to maintain 25 bitcoins per 10 minute average time to get 1 confirmation always get maintained as 10 minute. 
you send a BTC TX == near instant.
when he knows that merchants dont AND SHOULD NOT accept zero confirms.That's not true. In several occasions I paid at merchants and they accepted the tx with zero confirmations.
10 minute is the average block finding rate.
It can easily take up to 1 hour sometimes.
It can easily take up to 1 hour sometimes.
The thing is, the majority of the banks cannot beat that confirmation time, even if they wanted to. I send money from my bank to someone else's account at another bank and it took 2 days. This was
not even in another country. I think people expect impossible and unrealistic confirmation times... or they have never used remittance services. The expectations should be lowered with proper
information from these exchanges and third party service providers.
not even in another country. I think people expect impossible and unrealistic confirmation times... or they have never used remittance services. The expectations should be lowered with proper
information from these exchanges and third party service providers.
It takes time. for me usually 10-15 mins with the recommended fees, the most tike taken to confirm my transaction was maybe 3-4hrs when the fee was Less
How much fee did you pay for that transaction? Maybe you just need a higher fee for that transaction to speed up. If you want to compare it with bank, the fee would be more expensive in bank.
You don;t understand how bitcoin works either.
The tx in question was included in the FIRST BLOCK that was mined, after the tx was sent.
The next comf was 20 min later. the very next block after the first block.
You could have paid 10 btc in fees, it would have made NO difference.
This tx COULD NOT have been processed any faster.
(luck of block propagation time aside)
*****************
2nd comf 412859 (Main Chain) 2016-05-22 09:33:43 BW.COM 0000000000000000020e5e6ab86cea2e0a98275ab72e1e67054af125162a0dc8998.09
1st comf 412858 (Main Chain) 2016-05-22 09:13:20 F2Pool 00000000000000000202b69f405cc49dc0ac7e6a912ade7a119fb43dd07dd00 999.98
previous block,
412857 (Main Chain) 2016-05-22 08:46:34 BW.COM 0000000000000000025974e82b0d888c464d530476ec80a4fd34191d1f477dd0 998.12
At least 15 min before the tx was sent.
How much fee did you pay for that transaction? Maybe you just need a higher fee for that transaction to speed up. If you want to compare it with bank, the fee would be more expensive in bank.
Hi guys,
It seems that the Bitcoin system is soon going to collapse. On 9.37 my time I transferred 1 BTC to another wallet. Here 10 min later there is still no transactions confirmations. It's really "scary" and even something the banks can do much faster. Now almost 11 min in the first confirmation came through. I need two confirmation since it's required by C-Cex. What it means is that if you need to react fast on some currency movement and you need the BTC (sadly not RBT) you have to wait.....and wait.....
So the second confirmation came through more than 30 min later.
What does it tell you about the Bitcoin infrastructure? To me it's about to collapse.
It's simply too slow!
It seems that the Bitcoin system is soon going to collapse. On 9.37 my time I transferred 1 BTC to another wallet. Here 10 min later there is still no transactions confirmations. It's really "scary" and even something the banks can do much faster. Now almost 11 min in the first confirmation came through. I need two confirmation since it's required by C-Cex. What it means is that if you need to react fast on some currency movement and you need the BTC (sadly not RBT) you have to wait.....and wait.....
So the second confirmation came through more than 30 min later.
What does it tell you about the Bitcoin infrastructure? To me it's about to collapse.
It's simply too slow!
You simply don't understand bitcoin then.
First comf in 11 min, completely normal.
Second comf ALWAYS comes in the following block.
You were slightly unlucky the second comf took longer than 10 min.
You could have been lucky and the second comf could have taken 2 min, but it didn't.
The infrastructure is running at full (core restricted) capacity and does have delays, but that did not cause your problem.
You just described exactly how bitcoin is meant to work.
There is no problem here.
11 min first comf?
You don't understand bitcoin.
As you that blockchain was attacked by hackers a couple of months ago by spamming the transactions hopefully they are still on it so use 0.00015+ BTC tx fee to get high priority transaction.
i think at this moment normal transaction need arround 20.000 satoshi for each transaction (per kb), to get normal time in confirmation (10-11 minute),
i recomended you use xapo wallet for "free fee" and faster transaction in confirmation
each transaction depends about how much your fee, and how much your transaction.
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