Topic: Devcoin Venture - page 2. (Read 4456 times)

You're missing my point somewhat; the amount of money you make from CD sales after a label takes their cut is basically zero. Because in the days of piracy -- nobody can be bothered. Tours, performing is how an artist makes his money from his music. Giving out the music just takes one problem out of the equation, namely; 'How do I get these people to buy my music?' the answer my label would put out is, 'You don't even have to sell your music. Just be yourself.'

If an artist really feels he needs to sell his CDs as well as make tour money, then there are other labels for them. No good business doesn't have a basic philosophy behind it.


That's really true, and resonates with me a lot. As well as the part about instrumental music. Ideally the label would become a platform for all of these things to succeed; I'm just trying to start with the basics. Too much too soon would likely kill it in action.

1. Seems doable, using the APIs of the exchanges. You'd just have to register at the exchange and put in your API key. Although I'm curious how you would want it integrated with the other *coins. Say you did something like convert 100000 DVC to BTC, should it just do the conversion and then say "coins converted" and they show up in your BTC client? Or should the DVC client list your BTC balance (as well as the balance for all the other coins)?

2. Not a huge fan of this idea for the same reasons mark said.

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I'm also a big fan of the record label idea, or at least some way for musicians to get paid in DVC for making free/open-source music apart from posting lyrics on devtome (what about instrumental music!?). Maybe you could do a pay-what-you-want model like Bandcamp does. Or have digital downloads free, and charge for physical copies of the album (only a slight markup on production, that goes straight to the artists).

Ideally though, I'd like to see musicians be able to earn generation shares for creating free and remixable music. There already is a lot of free (as in beer) music out there, but there is _not_ a lot of free (as in open source) music out there. The only big band I can think of that releases open source music is Nine Inch Nails - and I could see them being interested in a project like this.

And FinShaggy, a lot of artists will give away their music for free and rely on things like t-shirt sales, playing shows, and donations to make money. I think the ideal form of this is the pay-what-you-want model. Radiohead released their album In Rainbows as a pay-what-you-want thing and still made millions, even though you could just download it for free.

1) Whether or not they want to, they need to sell their music to survive, and since the label would give away their music for free, they would have to sell it themselves on the side. Or else we would just have a bunch of McDonalds employees trying to be musicians, instead of straight up artists.

2) Again, whether or not they want to sell it, something has to be sold somewhere.

3) Just because something needs initial funding doesn't mean that it won't make money in the future. Everything takes capitol though, that's just simply how capitalism works...

This is true, but that's only half of the artist I'd be trying to attract with such a venture. It's not a publicity stunt, it's a philosophy of an idea. I'm trying to appeal to the musician who has to make music. And they'd put all their energies into creating that music, whether they got paid for it or not.

It's true, letting them sell their music in such a situation wouldn't hurt much, but again, the kind of artist I'm looking for doesn't really want to sell their music in the first place. They'd just do so because we live in a world where rent exists.


Yeah, I'd like to hear from Unthinkingbit on this one. I.E do devcoin funded ventures only get a one time payment? Can they re-apply until they are self-sufficient? I'd really like to make such a thing a reality, but I don't know how much hype I can generate for these artists from a month's worth of pay. Naturally the aim would be to make the venture self-sufficient as quickly as possible, mind. Running something at a loss isn't worth running.

Open Transactions is supposed to be a system service, so you would not integrate it itself into anything, otherwise everything would end up with its own copy of Open Transactions inside it.

Instead it will be a service, probably using URI, that browsers and instant message clients and skype type apps and basically anything that wants or needs any kind of financial services will all make calls to.

That approach also prevents multiple things all trying to write the financial data at the same time. They will al go through the Open Transactions daemon aka system service aka system-tray-app to do everything.

Meanwhile, I am seeing that maybe the idea of using a real banking system is not popular at all... Last time I set up Cyclos it was behind Tor so there was a tendency to claim it was the Tor part that led to no-oine bothering to look at it. This time it is right out in the open at http://dvcstable02.devcoin.org:8080 yet only one person so far has bothered to create an account so they can look inside it.

So maybe the idea of having Cyclos modules built that will interface to blockchains is a no-go from the get-go. A pity since it has apps for the major phones and fun stuff that like that seemed like they could be quite useful, especially in places like Africa where apparently everyone use phones.

See https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/dvcbank-httpdvcstable02devcoinorg8080-193312

-MarkM-

Otherwise I suppose Open Transactions is already doing something similar? Any way to integrate that?

45 days I think for a PayPal dispute.

-MarkM-

Huh. I thought it was some amount of hours that you had to start disputing the transaction... that's I thought it said when I was using it yesterday at least.

As long as it only exchanges between cryptocoins, and uses the other coin's *coind or *coin-qt in -server mode to handle the other chain's side of the exchange, it might be do-able.

-MarkM-

I really like the idea of an exchange built into the DVC client!

It would be cool if it was qt client as well.

PayPal's problem is the 180-day reversal of transfers, which actually originates with the credit cards many people use to fund PayPal.

So escrow of PayPal funds would need to be 180 days...

-MarkM-

My first proposal is a global exchange built into the wallet application.
It would include:
1. Exchange from DVC to all other coins
2. Built in, customize-able automatic escrow service for PPUSD (PayPal) direct transfers.

This exchange should be P2P so that it can not easily be DoS/DDoSed.

I think some artists don't give out free music just to give out free music, they give out free music so that people will spread the word about their songs without having to buy an album. So letting them sell their music at their concerts, with or without our label on them wouldn't be a bad thing. If we restrict them, we are just like every other record label, controlling them and their music, just for less payment for them...

And about the shares not being able to go too far, I think we should make not only a bounty list for this stuff, but a thread/website or something so that we can accept and give donations to fund stuff like this over time. I think if we had a board of like 5-20 writers on a "charity board" we could get a lot done

I've been attempting to make it for a while. I think any artist with some wisdom about the industry would prefer to give their music out for free anyway, they tend to earn not much more than a pittance for CD sales. I know many artists, too. As for letting them sell it themselves? I think that would go south rather quickly. It would complicate the image of the label as well as what the artist is actually trying to achieve by giving out free music. I am planning on implementing a system where you can buy real 'collectors edition' CDs/Vinyls from certain artists that garner a certain amount of downloads.

If the idea is successful, naturally I will develop a solid business plan for it; and begin speaking to other people. But I do have to bear in mind, even if this idea was to win, 12 generation shares can only go so far -- so I don't want to say anything 'big' is in the works. [rant]But I'd like to make some waves. Too much shit music gets produced these days because the general populace love to listen to garbage. I'd like to get some attention focused on those who just want to be heard, and understood. [/rant]

That is an awesome idea, are you attempting to make it now or when would you start trying to manage it? Do you know any artists, I know some people... As long as the contracts were flexible, and especially if we allowed them to sell it to other people as well as have it free on the DVC site.

I propose a record label. All music produced from this label would be entirely free -- with each artist being able to accept devcoin donations, as well as being paid a flat fee for releasing albums under the label. I'd be more than happy to manage such a venture.

Hopefully, provided the project goes well there would be the opportunity to set up tours for artists under the label in the future. This would earn them much more money considering creating an album (or any kind of art indeed) is unquantifiable in monetary terms.

Artists who feel they earn more than they need can put money back into the label or just donate their devcoins elsewhere.

It would also give me an outlet; I'd rather not just spam up devtome with my own lyrics.

Check out http://dvcstable02.devcoin.org:8080

It is the Cyclos banking system, but that includes an advertising system for people to advertise things they want to buy and sell, and it includes stuff for webmasters to use on their websites for payment buttons and such.

I have it set up with DeVCoins as its currency, so basically it is a DVCbank, a bank in which accounts are denominated in DeVCoins.

So webmasters could "accept devcoins" similar to how one "accepts fiat" with things like Paypal; that is, by having your account added to, instead of by having to deal with actual coins or notes/bills or, in the case of cryptocurrencies, actual blockchains.

It has no blockchain interfaces at all, it knows nothing of blockchains.

But that just means it might be worthwhile to figure out exactly what kind of modules that do somehow do something with blockchains Cyclos needs and making some bounties to get them made...

When you create an account it apparently says the admin has to validate you. That'd be me so I guess I will have to manually verify people's email addreses, or something. As I have not even looked into how sendmail is set up on that machine but I think by default sendmail on Fedora only sends to local users on the machine not out onto the internet so likely the machine has no outgoing email ability.

-MarkM-

If someone else doesn't get this one, I will. We're making a forum/shop, and the store will be nothing but DVC priced products. (but we will accept cash, that will just be translated if they choose)

Ok, this second one is a little more ambitious.

I propose we offer a bounty to the first store like Bitcoinstore, but which accepts Devcoin as a payment method.

This can either be an existing store with also accepts Devcoin, or can be a Devcoin store built for this very purpose (preferred).

Must stock 100+ items, items must be physical and shipped to the customers.

With dropshipping this wouldn't be too hard for someone to set up - I'd personally love to do it but I have too many projects on!

PREFERRED: Store to sell 3D Printers and accessories, computer accessories, laptops etc

My first proposal is a Devcoin.org website in the vein of Litecoin.org, Bitcoin.org etc.

I think a site with a contemporary image slider and icons underneath with little explanations of how Devcoin works and breaks down the vision of Devcoin as crypto project on a mission to change the world, and sponsor such necessary developments as advanced fabricators and even a spaceship! This information needs to be presented in a contemporary way

I can't remember if it was already agreed there would be a bounty for this (if so please remind me how much this particular bounty is) - but I believe this is a necessity for Devcoin to gain more exposure and legitimacy.

The site could include the current bounties which are available to be worked on and what Devcoin has achieved thus far, and this list can be updated monthly.

I have quite a few ideas for the second one let me get back to you