Diablo Mining Company - page 21. | Bitcointalksearch.org

Deprived

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Quote from: Deprived on September 16, 2012, 10:33:39 AM

Let's start with your conclusion first:

Your plan says absolutely NOTHING about Diablo's competence.

Diablo's competence is not the subject of the motion. This isn't a popularity contest, sir. As for competence, Smickles will be hired to prepare full, transparent accounting statements. Secondly, diablo will be responsible to shareholders via motions. If he does not keep his contract then he will be removed. Additionally, there are now well-defined limits on DMC that Diablo feels comfortable operating within.

I was responding to you saying:

"This simple 3-step plan shows that Diablo-D3 is competent enough to manage DMC and is the best person for the job."

It does NOT show anything about his competence. His basic ability to competently trade securities and manage investors funds has not changed as a result of you making that post. IF he explained what he'd done wrong/badly in the past -and how he'd avoid making the same mistakes - then that MAY be evidence that he's now more competent than he was.

Why would we believe your claim that "If he does not keep his contract then he will be removed."? Are you saying you believe he hasn't already broken his contract?

Puppet

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Im going out on a limb here, and suggest usagi and diablo agreed to split the 20%. I cant see why anyone sane would otherwise defend the indefensible.

Newar

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Quote from: Newar on September 16, 2012, 10:13:41 AM

20% is the steepest I've seen across my GLBSE holdings for management fees etc., whatever you want to call them.

How is this warranted?

If he designs, builds, and manages a million dollar data center, I think paying him $200k is fine. Plus, 40% of net to shareholders is a lot. Most companies in the real world pay 1 to 5% in dividends per year. This way, shareholders still get 3 or 4% a month. I think it's a good deal.

Another way of looking at it, is that this is incentive for Diablo to do a good job. If he does it right, he gets paid. Management incentive was something missing from the previous contract. Now that it's in, I feel confident we can move forward. A little accountability and transparency goes a long way.

Yes, if... It has been the plan to build *something* since the IPO, no? Where are we now?

In that respect get rid of point 1a. I think we had enough of that.

I agree that we should wait for the audit until we decide on this proposition.

EskimoBob

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Sorry, this "contract" is unacceptable.

Deprived

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Newar on September 16, 2012, 10:13:41 AM

20% is the steepest I've seen across my GLBSE holdings for management fees etc., whatever you want to call them.

How is this warranted?

If he designs, builds, and manages a million dollar data center, I think paying him $200k is fine. Plus, 40% of net to shareholders is a lot. Most companies in the real world pay 1 to 5% in dividends per year. This way, shareholders still get 3 or 4% a month. I think it's a good deal.

Another way of looking at it, is that this is incentive for Diablo to do a good job. If he does it right, he gets paid. Management incentive was something missing from the previous contract. Now that it's in, I feel confident we can move forward. A little accountability and transparency goes a long way.

Cool - so don't pay him the $200k until he HAS the million dollar data centre. That way he has incentive to actually get it - rather than to draw 20% of turnover whislt losing share-holder's capital.

Totally agree accountability and transparency go a long way - so where are they in your plan? Your plan removes accountability (by rewarding him irrespective of results) and says nothing about transparency.

Deprived

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Newar

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20% is the steepest I've seen across my GLBSE holdings for management fees etc., whatever you want to call them.

How is this warranted?

Puppet

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Diablo spent most of his investors money buying mining bonds. These bonds lose value faster than snow melts in the sahara, which is why they pay such high coupons. These coupon payment already dont offset the value loss (which is what makes them bad investments), and now diablo will pocket 20% on top of that. You have to be kidding. THere is no chance in hell shareholders can ever make a positive ROI, even if Diablo had any clue about what he was doing.

Usagi, please tell me you didnt think this through.

EskimoBob

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Quote from: Puppet on September 16, 2012, 09:58:48 AM

Quote from: novusordo on September 16, 2012, 09:03:53 AM

a) Out of all the money DMC recieves as income (excluding sale of shares), Diablo will recieve 20%.

Wait.. WHAT?
So Diablo took everyones money, wasted most of it on rubbish bonds that have no resale value, and rather than working towards returning shareholder equity he will now get 20% of all dividends of the bonds he bought? Regardless of how worthless these bonds have or will soon become? And people think this is a good idea? LOL. What this basically comes down to is that you give Diablo your bitcoins and let him trade with it and you pay a 20% tax for Diablo's legendary trading skills, regardless of what ROI he achieves. Who in their right minds would think thats a good idea? Thats theft. A 20% bonus on actual profits might be reasonable, but getting 20% of revenue is ridiculous and in this case, insulting.

+10

Investors gave him coin so he can grow hes "business" - that's hes reward. As simple as that.
If he (D3) wants income form DMC, he can buy the DMC shares like everyone else has.

No fkn way I am voting "yes" on BS like that.

EskimoBob

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Quote from: DiabloD3 on September 14, 2012, 03:04:06 PM

As I said before, if nefario succeeds, then shareholders cannot be paid dividends because I will not send one more BTC to GLBSE and nefario will refuse to release a list of shareholders and their number of shares.
...

DiabloD3, divs from DMC holdings are paid to DMC account and not to your PERSONAL account in GLBSE.
You haven't show ANY proof of ownership of any assets outside of GLBSE that pay dividends or have generated any income. (if you have, can you post a link to it. I must have missed it)
Today you told me, that you have not transferred any coins out from DMC account in GLBSE.

Quote

EskimoBob | Diablo-D3: how much BTC did you transferred out for your assets outside of GLBSE?
EskimoBob | I am just trying to figure out what's the value of the portfolio
Diablo-D3 | EskimoBob: none
Diablo-D3 | EskimoBob: infact, until this nefario-bomb, I had assets waiting to be transferred into dmc's hands

Smell like a attempt of manipulation.

Puppet

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Quote from: novusordo on September 16, 2012, 09:03:53 AM

a) Out of all the money DMC recieves as income (excluding sale of shares), Diablo will recieve 20%.

Wait.. WHAT?
So Diablo took everyones money, wasted most of it on rubbish bonds that have no resale value, and rather than working towards returning shareholder equity he will now get 20% of all dividends of the bonds he bought? Regardless of how worthless these bonds have or will soon become? And people think this is a good idea? LOL. What this basically comes down to is that you give Diablo your bitcoins and let him trade with it and you pay a 20% tax for Diablo's legendary trading skills, regardless of what ROI he achieves. Who in their right minds would think thats a good idea? Thats theft. A 20% bonus on actual profits might be reasonable, but getting 20% of revenue is ridiculous and in this case, insulting.

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Bitcoin Oz

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Wat

DiabloD3

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DiabloMiner author

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Wat

Quote from: MPOE-PR on September 15, 2012, 09:10:20 PM

Quote

Buying shares in s.dice will take 10 years to payoff.

Last dividend was ~7k for the whole thing, it only is selling for ~350k, so your math fails on that score.
Further, after 10 years you'd have both the shares in their original, pristine, mint condition and the dividends paid during the 120 months. What "pay off" are you talking about?

I doubt MPEx would still be there in 10 years is what I really mean.

The operator is basically anonymous and runs a porn site on the same server.

Anonymous entities and bitcoin financial services has proven in the past to be a bad combination and people would be nuts to send any coins to such services.By urging people to invest in such services you are actually doing the community a disservice and teaching people bad habits. People should boycott anonymous financial services not encourage them.

Either identify yourself or GTFO.

SebastianJu

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Yes, youre right... it should have been a mining project reading from the contract. In fact the second part about hardware that is supporting mining i wouldnt have thought of a solarfarm. Simply because such a farm has a 100% roi after 10-12 years. Thats, compared with simple mining, a real bad roi. So i wouldnt have thought he would invest in such thing.
At the end it became a investingproject with many bad decisions that dropped the course near zero.

markm

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Its good for mining and bitcoin-gambling and of course "gold games" aka HYIPs.

But for Diablo's plan, of building a datacentre with a solar power farm, it is not so good.

Although conceivably had he put it all into mining as cost-effectively as possible from the start, in a couple of years when bitcoins are worth thousands of dollars each it could have picked up the datacentre and solar out of the amount the mined coins appreciated if at the right time he had stopped putting it all into mining gear and instead just started hoarding the mined coins...

-MarkM-

SebastianJu

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@markm... what are you speaking of? Of course BTC in itself is an investment. But investors of glbse are aware of this. So normally you have btc, invest them and you earn money from the investment. But on top of it you earn $ because the BTC are getting a higher value. And when diablo would have build a mining rig from the start, like he stated in the contract, then he would had the chance to make 100% ROI after 10-11months. Thats the rate pyramining.com has, a real mining project.
So no... btc isnt a bad investment currency. In fact its a good one because you earn 2 ways when you make sure you have more BTC after you are out of investment.

MPOE-PR

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Quote

Buying shares in s.dice will take 10 years to payoff.

Last dividend was ~7k for the whole thing, it only is selling for ~350k, so your math fails on that score.
Further, after 10 years you'd have both the shares in their original, pristine, mint condition and the dividends paid during the 120 months. What "pay off" are you talking about?

DiabloD3

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Quote from: markm on September 15, 2012, 07:38:36 PM

From the sound of it his biggest mistake was to issue his shares on a platform that forces everything to be denominated in, and traded in, bitcoins.

His goal seems to be to build something of real actual usefulness type of value, not to play exchange-rate games to make things look useful by looking at them only from the viewpoint of the bottom line of one single currency's accounting of the venture.

Bitcoin seems to be a particularly bad unit of account to be using in fact, because it is itself an investment that is likely to out-perform most markets. It is quite likely that simply buying and holding bitcoins is better than almost any investment other than ones in which someone has been talked, convinced, fooled or suckered into using bitcoins as a unit of account thus ends up owing the investors more bitcoins than were invested rather than merely more buying power than was invested.

In fact his overall operation seems like the kind of thing where the "sysbucks" I used in my Internet Provider Utilities toolkit could be useful, as the "sysbucks" serve as a currency specific to the range of goods and services provided by the provider independent of how many of some other currency the sales staff manage to sell "sysbucks" for at any particular point in time.

-MarkM-

qft.

Topic: Diablo Mining Company - page 21. (Read 96370 times)