Topic: DIANNA: the IANA Decentralized design concept - page 4. (Read 16104 times)

Thanks for all trying to help.

I see CJDNS is an alternative network like TOR and I2P and they also hit head in the wall to make P2P DNS system and they have no ready solution. I'll check it out.

Rassah: I didnt mean you, but people saying "namecoin is fine".

I was just chatting with the main developer, cjd, in his IRC channel and I introduced him to this thread. He is very familiar with bitcoin and namecoin but his biggest concern is that there would be even less incentive to produce websites in an experimental network if people had to pay for domain names. But he believes he came up with a solution:

00:51   cjd   I have a solution to making domains effectively free w/o risk of long forks
00:52   cjd   a fork can be resolved by merging domains in the fork with domains in the main chain
00:53   cjd   and the root of the domain chain must be in a bitcoin transaction hash
00:53   cjd   but until it gest big, no money need be wasted
00:53   cjd   so the only cost is the fee
01:03   cjd   well, you can tell the dianna devs about this channel since I have a few questions for them and I imagine they have a few problems which I have possible solutions for.
01:03   cjd   I have been working on this problem for almost a year.
01:04   cjd   cjdns, in it's current form, is a routing engine.
01:04   cjd   It solves a number of problems with routing protocols but it does not approach naming.

This stuff is over my head so I can't have a real conversation about it but you can reach him here: https://wiki.projectmeshnet.org/IRC

Does anyone know if this implementation would be compatible with the cjdns network?
https://wiki.projectmeshnet.org/CJDNS

DIANNA will be a completely different type of DNS-like system, than Namecoin.
If you have questions related to Namecoin properties -- please ask Namecoin's developers.

I am Soviet, too, comrade. И тoжe гoвopю пo pyccки.

This is a work in progress -- there is just too much very complex
stuff we need to think of ATM.
When we shall have something more mature -- we shall publish it for your suggestions
 and critics.
Thanks for your interest.

We are live in capitalism society. Every work must be paid and every payment must have a ground in work. All other - the way to inflation or collapse.(I don't go deep to credit organizations).

It is obvious I think. And this is strange that russian, soviet man reminds that truth to English speakers.

It's ironic that my skills are all about finances, which is what Bitcoin and these systems are all about, but my programming skills were abandoned ten years ago, which is what is required to actually get any of this done. It's great to watch these ideas and contribute my own, but I feel so useless without being able to code. Still, I hope I can help, because I really like this project.

Right, but namecoin not limited to .bit, but it is its primary objective - decentralized system maintains centralized network. Mess.

But main problem is not in this. The main problem is the price of domain operation. NameCoin has an arbitrary formula of that, taken from the sky, and they just destroy that money to be completely correct.

I don't think this is right. I think the work of verification domain transaction MUST be paid. Some people dont think such.

And this is the main drama of holy war. And that is why DIANNA was designed.

From what I understand, Namecoin
requires its own mining,
its own blockchain that stores both Namecoin transactions and domain registrations/configurations,
requires miners, registrars, and those who with to run a DNS server as home to store the entire copy of the huge blockchain
does not have a method of setting a market rate for domain activities,
requires an exchange rate between Namecoin and Bitcoin,
and I think is limited to .bit domains.

The new idea
leaves all the mining to Bitcoin only, so the block chain will only store DNS changes, making it much smaller than Namecoin's,
the database will be distributed using DHT instead of relying on centralized DNS servers or having to store the whole blockchain locally,
does not need its own currency, so domain purchases can be made with any currency (though most likely with Bitcoin)
does not need its own currency exchanges
registrations for domains are up to whatever prices Bitcoin miners want to charge, so are open to the market,
and will be open to register any type of domains, including Tor and I2P ones.

Hope I got everything right

Just read the white paper, and I understand there's been more thought/work since it was published, but I didn't really see what were the fatal flaws in the Namecoin implementation?

I mean it's obvious that the current effort/output has been sub-par -- I mean how lazy is it to not even bother renaming the configuration file (its called bitcoin.conf in the .namecoin subdir) ?!?!

And yes some of the browser plugins aren't quite ready for prime time AND the world needs more peering nodes to translate the .bit requests into something usable.  I would think that a plugin bundled with the TOR client would be a no brainer?

So I gotta ask, what problem is this going to solve that fixing/enhancing the Namecoin implementation(s) can't/won't?

Unless I'm really wrong somewhere the idea here is to have this dynamically priced meaning miners accept the extra work @ whatever they'll accept the extra work @. Making btc/fiat relatively irrelevant as pool ops will adjust their acceptance price along with market price.

That'll basically provide a friggin awesome all in one solution 

I think you might be conflating two costs:

Cost #1 is the cost to get a bunch of domain transactions accepted.

I believe pent's proposal is based on additional difficulty, which will be independent of the bitcoin price.

In other words, if bitcoin difficulty is 100, then maybe you need to solve a difficulty 110 block to get your additional DIANNA data accepted by the other DIANNA nodes who are maintaining the key:value database.

If bitcoin difficulty rises to 1 million, then you need to solve a difficulty 1-million-and-ten block to get your data accepted.

The additional difficulty factor should be set by the DIANNA nodes based on their ability to process/store data. More thinking is needed about what that function looks like (it reminds me of the bitcoin fee algorithm; it's trying to solve a similar problem, preventing spam/abuse but allowing as many transactions as possible for the lowest possible price).

Then there's a completely separate Cost #2, which will be higher than cost #1, that is the payment that miners (aka registrars) will charge to handle domain transactions (and do the work of bundling them up, creating some sort of summary hash, and getting that hash into the bitcoin block chain).  That's just a free market.


(I'm completely ignoring Cost #3, which is the "what if I want to purchase an existing domain" price, and is whatever the owner is willing to sell it for.)

This is all regulated by system. Demand will drop, pdiff will drop, prices in btc also drop.

what will you do if the bitcoin price rises by a factor of 100? your domains will cost 100 times what they did before.

I am totally for move finances to Bitcoin and do not make one more FooBarCoin.

All domains will be paid in bitcoins, every payment will be based on hard work to prevent abuse activity.

TOR and I2P will have DIANNA as their crypto-dns with human readable names. This is the DIANNA objective.

Another objective: hold and manage terabytes of authoritative records.

Pent and Gavin,

This is a bloody brilliant concept especially with the directions it's headed in now. This would be an incredible addon for bitcoin as it'd fix a lot of the issues that I and about 2 billion other internet users have to deal with on an everyday basis.

I can do bugger all on coding etc but like Psy offered if you want anything translated into Danish, German or Chinese I'd be more than happy to help out.

What's really needed for either Dianna or Namecoin to succeed is simplification to the point where a workable solution comes in the form of some of the tor browser/im packages available on the torproject pages. Then we'd have a truly liberating solution for the billions of internet users who get stepped on every day.

The potential this has for strengthening both the bitcoin project and a free internet are absolutely amazing as it kills two birds with one stone instead of people having to deal with A coin, B coin... etc adnauseum this provides peeps with p2p transactions and uncensored internet at the same time. Atm the average internet user doesn't really have anything near the skill level needed to make use of namecoin (imo. the one disappointing factor about the namecoin project) please bear that in mind when working on this.

you can use the bitcoin blockchain height as "time". then you can set the price depending on the number of registrations (updates) per bitcoin block.

e.g.:
100 domains per last 1000 blocks --> 0.1btc
1000 domains per last 1000 blocks --> 1btc

I would try a simple iir filter first.


Still you have to hard code the ratio for the domain price.

If the bitcoin price rises by a factor of 100 the system might break.

The floating Namecoin value solves these problems elegantly... 

If I correctly understand, you offer:
* Move namecoin blockchain (with possible terabytes of data) to bitcoin chain
* Bitcoins are used as carrier for domains (still)
* NameCoin is still oriented to serve centralized IP networks (NS??)
* Price is not defined

Who get the price for domain operation?

wiki and documents are outdated, since we have brain-stormed concept and made a very diffirent one. I'll publish new concept shortly.

DIANNA will be totally dependent on bitcoin chain, as it will use Bitcoin difficulty for hashing. And hashing will be standard sha256(sha256()), no tricks.

I see that what you are offering will destroy NameCoin itself. The conclusion from this is similar to my conclusion. It is better to write it from blank.