Topic: [DICE]Bikinidice, Multicurrency,auto bet, range selector.AUCTION, PLEASE ENTER !! - page 40. (Read 56002 times)

No I don't, why do you ask?  You looking to avoid the law?  The police already after you?



He's not suggesting you use the same seed--so why do you talk about this? 

I'm glad you decided to let users pick their own seed.  If we did not complain who knows how long you would have continued with your old design?  Good luck!  I'll be surprised if you are still in business a year from now, but time will tell...

Awesome Game!
 

Thanks for your work and good luck with your site !

Users are now able to choose a personal "Client Seed".

We try to accommodate your requests within the technical limits

@TonyT
We have registred domain on GoDaddy, hosting is another thing...
You haven't reply to this one:
Do you know any bitcoin gambling site that does not have legal problems you mentioned?
Please reply

@dooglus

So, you're an PrimeDice developer? Good to know...
we wrote which version of php need to test provably fair: PHP 5.4 remi repository - Linux


Yes it's true. But if we use same seed for every roll we've got a BIG problem.
If a player check the roll sequence and try to find next number with brute forcehe win all ^^.

Try to explain this with this simple php code:

If one of this line contain the roll sequence the player can use that seed to win all other roll.
This is why we don't like to use same seed for every roll...

You're a smart one!

Most gamblers don't want to be bothered with picking seeds, so you're right - the sites always fill in a client_seed for them. It's well within the realm of possibility that the site fills in a "bad" client seed - and it may not be the first roll that is bad. Maybe the site knows the player, and knows they always bet in a particular way. Maybe they use the martingale strategy, where you double your bet each time you lose, and reset it when you win. In that case it's in the site's interest (if they want to cheat the player) to pick a client seed that will cause the player to hit a long losing streak pretty quickly. Maybe not in the first few bets, but not too late either.

So as a player, it's definitely in your interest to make sure you pick your own client seed, and pick it in a non-predictable manner.

Sites like bikinidice which pick a new server seed for every roll are a real pain to play on for the paranoid gambler. In order to be sure that the rolls are fair, you have to make a note of each new server seed hash, and then pick a new random client seed as well - for every roll - and then verify the rolls afterwards, too.

You're probably right that most players never even check the provable fairness, but that doesn't matter. If just one person checks it and finds that the site was cheating, he will post proof of it and very quickly the site will lose whatever trust it had. This recently happened with the dicebitco.in site, which was found to be skipping nonces - if your bet was about to win, they would skip it and jump to the next roll (increment the nonce twice instead of once) instead. They were caught doing it, and shut down.

So in summary: the player has to take an interest, by setting their own client seed - even provably fair sites can cheat you if you don't put in a little effort; and at least some of the players need to go the extra step and verify their rolls after playing.

Personally I always make a note of the server seed hash before I play, and set my own client seed. But I don't generally verify the rolls unless I lose.

Thanks, I bookmarked this, very nice.  Do you know if these 'dice' shops publish their information like bikinishop does?  Probably so, as I doubt bikinishop does anything unique.  Further the weakest link is #3, if the client picks a seed that is provided by the site, the seed could be tainted so the first roll is always a client losing roll.  I bet most of these sites generate the client seed.  The nouce increment should change things for the second roll, so even if the first roll is tainted to always win for the house, I think if you let the nouce increment, then the numbers will be random for the second and subsequent rolls.  Thus perhaps 'let it roll' is the best advice.  In any event, I doubt if most clients of these sites check their results afterwards...as long as they did not lose too much, it's just entertainment for them.

TonyT

Unfortunately, the reason I am "legend" is that I spend far too much time here... Nothing more, nothing less.

The way it usually works is the following:

1) site picks a server_seed
2) site publishes hash of server_seed
3) user picks a client_seed
4) user rolls dice. rolls are determined by hashing the two seeds together with a nonce that increments per roll
5) user stops playing
6) site publishes server_seed
7) user verifies that hash(step_6) == step_2 (proving that the site picked their server seed first), and that the rolls he saw in step 4 match what he should have seen

Since the rolls are determined by both seeds, and since the user picks his seed after the site has committed to their seed, the user can be sure that the site isn't cheating.

At BikiniDice, the site picks both the server and client seeds, and so the user can't be sure of anything much.

LOL, that's why you R Legend!  Go get 'em dooglus!

Thanks dooglus, I figured that out when our bikinidice friend replied.  

BTW if you can link to or explain (not a priority, don't feel obligated) how 'provably fair' works, in terms of mechanics, --UPDATE:  Today at 03:45:37 AM  I SEE YOU ARE ONTO THIS ISSUE, LOL! --feel free to PM/email me or post here (I have never been to a bitcoin gambling site so I don't know how the client seed is entered, that's the main thing).  I also code and know the 'big picture', such as that for a given seed, a random number generator will always generate the same sequence of random numbers.  Thus the seed, for true pseudo-random, is usually something like the system clock, which changes from time to time.  But with all these gambling sites it's hard to see whether in fact the client is picking the seed or not (I think you or was it another thread implied this?)

For example, going to https://www.bikinidice.com/user/10965 and then picking some transaction, clicking on it, gives:

$clientSeed="8136172YYo6nUvjI6NxHncXiiT786VK4YncGS88oz8TtB5yzszVdpBUF1fSFi9WCM5i1X0O62kw749i";
$serverSeed="2021184wm2C1851Lc4s21h46vyJJuziFAmA6jaZ3PH3MvGjW5hBR48GpQ8iz6YCldwH38RVF9M0YSd";
 [deleted code]

and then running this code on http://writecodeonline.com/php/ gives the expected output, as shown by bikinidice.com, proving the run was 'fair', but for one question:  how was the clientSeed generated?  This was by user 10965, who was betting once every two seconds for many minutes as this thread shows, so clearly the user 10965 was not manually typing in their seed.  Therefore, if bikinidice wanted to (and I don't know if this is the case), it could have provided "tainted" seed that is guaranteed to lose, from a simulation of the dice (roulette wheel) done before the user showed up.  It would be nice if a user could pick their own seed, input it as "8136172YY ...  0O62kw749i" and know that the roll was 100% fair.  Not sure if any dice shop does this however.

TonyT

There are two seeds: server seed, and client seed. The server seed is generated by the dice site (the web server) and the client seed is generated by the player (the client in the client-server relationship).

I don't know what you're trying to say with "generated for his user". Are you saying that the client seed is per-user and the server seed isn't? Because I don't think that is true. To quote the barely intelligible text on the site:


I'm not saying you can change the server seed after I've seen its hash. I'm saying that if you generate the client seed, and just let me pick between a list of pre-generated client seeds, it's quite possible that all of them would result in the same crappy roll for me.

You don't know how I'm going to roll, but you know how I've rolled in the past, and so can quite reliably predict how I will roll next, for most users.


Do you know who you are talking to? I ran the biggest Bitcoin dice site and came up with the system that is now pretty much the standard way of generating provably fair dice rolls these days. Even PrimeDice are now using the technique that I came up with. So yeah, I think I KNOW how it work.


Using a particular version of PHP's srand() and rand() isn't how people do provably fair. You're the one who needs to learn how things work here...

Hey Tony.

The odds on the site are the same as for pretty much every other dice site. It's a 1% edge.

The 50% bet pays out 1.98x.

To calculate the house edge, multiply those two numbers together and subtract from 100:

50 times 1.98 = 99, and subtracting that from 100 gives 1% house edge.

Their provably fair system is suspect, their customer support dude is kind of a dick, but their odds are at least competitive.

https://who.is/whois/bikinidice.com

and from GoDaddy:
Domain Name: BIKINIDICE.COM
Registry Domain ID: 1877574214_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.godaddy.com
Registrar URL: http://www.godaddy.com
Update Date: 2014-09-25 15:52:29
Creation Date: 2014-09-25 15:52:29
Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2015-09-25 15:52:29
Registrar: GoDaddy.com, LLC
Registrar IANA ID: 146
Registrar Abuse Contact Email: [email protected]
Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +1.480-624-2505


So you must have used a proxy server?  Strange, as I say, that you used GoDaddy, who will kick you off if they learn you are breaking US laws (that's due to their business model, nothing personal).

Not Russian.  Hmmm... Ukrainian?

TonyT

no bonus ? i need to try it

Thanks Gianluca95, yes primedice is our primary inspiration.
However primedice is online from may 2013, we only from 5 days.

We need more time to improve and differentiate 

@TonyT
Do you know any bitcoin gambling site that does not have legal problems you mentioned? I think not.
So why you write it just in this thread? Do you want to discredit us?
And no, we aren't russian... And no, we haven't hosting on godaddy...

@forsakenpnut
We have wrote many time bro, by now is 0.02 BTC, if you try to bet more than 0.02 BTC site show you an alert

hi,
I tried to play on bikini says and I like because I can decide the range of betting ...
then I can try with the provably fair that the stakes are real and I have tried several times, and they are correct, among other things, the other sites do not allow this option or is wrong !

I think you make too many problems.
is a site like other.
a little more sexy for me.
The provably fair to me it works.
if you fail it's your fault.

Whats the max bet for you're website?

Why do you say I don't like gambling?  I play poker with friends all the time.  You are clearly Russian, as you speak in accusations, as is common in that country.  Also you are the front man, meaning the people who really built and backed your site are invisible.  Why they chose you, who speaks and writes badly in English, is a mystery, but possibly it's a very small group (probably relatives) and you are the only one that speaks passable English.  Anyway, as I say I wish you luck--you will need it.  I see you are hosting with GoDaddy, which is not my first choice for anonymity, as they will kick you off as soon as anybody complains (it won't be me, as I don't care what you do).  I bet you are in Russia however, where nobody cares about illegal gambling.  

Good luck!

TonyT

* GoDaddy enters 21 new markets, adds 14 languages
Wednesday 30 April 2014 | 09:47 CET | News
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Internet domain registrar and hosting company GoDaddy has announced a substantial expansion into Europe with the addition of 21 new markets. After establishing its European presence in Ireland, Spain and the UK, the company is now expanding into countries such as Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, the Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Russia, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey and the Ukraine.  

The company began its international expansion two years ago, above all focusing on Latin America. GoDaddy now offers products and support in a total of 42 markets and 17 languages, with its goal to bring services to customers in 60 markets and 30 languages.