Did ChipMixer made hundreds of mllion of dollars?

PrimeNumber7

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Quote from: LeGaulois on September 11, 2022, 07:52:35 PM

Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on September 11, 2022, 04:42:48 PM

I have no evidence to support this, but there is always the potential that CM is being run by a government in order to track the flow of coin. Even if this is not the case, there is always the potential that the government will take over CM (by using force), and will not make this public, at least at first.

Alex Jones, is that you with news conspiracy theories? Tongue

To be fair, it could happen to CM like it could be the case with any other mixer. But CM is operating for many years now, if an agency was behind, they would have already finished doing what they wanted to do. Or they are very bad to track the flow of bitcoins.
We would also have seen news such as ABCD was arrested, we managed to track the funds that flowed here and there.
Also, with the various attacks that CM has undergone since,...

Taking over a mixer could also be possible. It happened with Bestmixer with the servers infected for many months. After "spying" enough, they decided to close the domain under seizure. If CM was in a case similar, the service would be closed since

Unless the agency wants to play the very long term but I can't imagine them running a mixer for years.
I could be naive this said.

You make a fair point in that if CM was in fact operated by a law enforcement agency, it would likely be discovered by now, as it is likely that some of the coin they mix is associated with criminal activity. I might counter this argument by saying that law enforcement could know that Alice is engaging in something illegal after tracing money flows through CM, and would then look at Alice specifically to try to find other evidence linking her to crimes. It is also possible that CM is being run by an intelligence agency that doesn't care about most crimes, and is trying to track money flows to/from enemy states, such as North Korea, Iran, Russia, etc.

On net, after considering your point, I think it is unlikely that CM was created by a law enforcement agency. Although there is always the potential that CM was taken over by a law enforcement agency "yesterday".

Quote from: mocacinno on September 12, 2022, 12:40:42 AM

@PrimeNumber7: true... But in my particular usecase, i would care less that the government knows how much funds i hold (i'm not saying i wouldn't care at all, it's just not my primary objective to hide my funds from the government). My biggest concern is criminals (and beggars). I'm not doing anything illegal, best case scenario the mixer is run by an honest company and nobody knows how much funds i hold, if it's run by a 3 letter agency i would be dissapointed, but i'm pretty sure a 3 letter agency will not come to my front door with a shotgun or a crowbar to threaten my family and steal my funds.

But once again, that's my usecase... It doesn't have to map with the usecase of other users.

I am willing to speculate that most people who value their privacy are in a similar situation as what you describe and use CM (and other mixers/mixing technology) accordingly. In fact, some people may not even have substantial amounts of money to hide from criminals/beggars, but do not want to tip off said criminals if they were to become more successful and start using mixing technology.

dothebeats

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CM could have made billions and we wouldn't even know, and we shouldn't even care. They are running a business, and it's normal for them to get some profits for their service. If they are managing to pay 50+ members with an average of $80 each every week, for a few years, this should already give you a clue that they are still doing pretty well, although the exact number of course is not known. A lot of people trusts the service, and they're actually delivering a good service, so whatever they are receiving is deserved.

mocacinno

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@PrimeNumber7: true... But in my particular usecase, i would care less that the government knows how much funds i hold (i'm not saying i wouldn't care at all, it's just not my primary objective to hide my funds from the government). My biggest concern is criminals (and beggars). I'm not doing anything illegal, best case scenario the mixer is run by an honest company and nobody knows how much funds i hold, if it's run by a 3 letter agency i would be dissapointed, but i'm pretty sure a 3 letter agency will not come to my front door with a shotgun or a crowbar to threaten my family and steal my funds.

But once again, that's my usecase... It doesn't have to map with the usecase of other users.

LeGaulois

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Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on September 11, 2022, 04:42:48 PM

I have no evidence to support this, but there is always the potential that CM is being run by a government in order to track the flow of coin. Even if this is not the case, there is always the potential that the government will take over CM (by using force), and will not make this public, at least at first.

Alex Jones, is that you with news conspiracy theories? Tongue

To be fair, it could happen to CM like it could be the case with any other mixer. But CM is operating for many years now, if an agency was behind, they would have already finished doing what they wanted to do. Or they are very bad to track the flow of bitcoins.
We would also have seen news such as ABCD was arrested, we managed to track the funds that flowed here and there.
Also, with the various attacks that CM has undergone since,...

Taking over a mixer could also be possible. It happened with Bestmixer with the servers infected for many months. After "spying" enough, they decided to close the domain under seizure. If CM was in a case similar, the service would be closed since

Unless the agency wants to play the very long term but I can't imagine them running a mixer for years.
I could be naive this said.

PrimeNumber7

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Quote from: mocacinno on September 09, 2022, 06:14:33 AM

I use chipmixer because i think it's nobody's business to know how much funds i hold and where i hold them. This protects my family from a $5 wrench attack.
You called me a criminal, please provide proof that i did anything illegal in my current jurisdiction.

I would not call anyone using CM a criminal, but I would say that using any mixing service is going to involve the risk that the "added" privacy is just an illusion. I have no evidence to support this, but there is always the potential that CM is being run by a government in order to track the flow of coin. Even if this is not the case, there is always the potential that the government will take over CM (by using force), and will not make this public, at least at first.

To answer the OP's question, I think it is very likely that CM is profitable on an operating basis. Their required operating expenses are likely to be low in relation to the volume they are mixing, and they can trivially change their "discretionary" operating expenses, such as promotions and advertising. Further, there is little incentive to keep coin on their platform for an extended period of time -- even if you "withdraw" a chip via a private key, but do not spend the coin on the private key, CM cannot reasonably use that coin because the customer who withdrew the chip would know their coin was randomly transferred.

Iron Fist

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Quote from: dhru9 on September 09, 2022, 06:46:14 AM

Yes they charged me 17% (of donation) without me agreeing to it. lmao.

They didn't charge you anything. You voluntarily donated that amount.

Quote from: dhru9 on September 09, 2022, 06:46:14 AM

I test their tool:

proof

Proof that you can't read or aren't intelligent enough to use a simple online tool:

KingsDen

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Quote from: dhru9 on September 09, 2022, 04:26:08 AM

This user ChipMixer had make ten of millions if not hundreds of millions from his site what you think?

I don't know the essence of your thread, is it to discover how much Chipmixer is worth or how they run their business? Whatever is your purpose, I have this to say;

Chipmixer is a business and no one remains in business for so many years even when they are not making money. I read that there was when Chipmixer was paying something higher than $300 per week and they have been consistent over the years, so it isn't a surprise that they may worth millions or billions. You wana start a coin mixing company? The opportunity is open for everyone and it is lucrative, you may want to try out your luck.

For the legality or nature of the business Chipmixer does, everything has it's two edges. If bitcoin can be accused of promoting illegality in the society, it won't be a surprise if everything relating to bitcoin has a share of it, and Chipmixer inclusive.

Lucius

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Calling people criminals themselves because they promote something that gives Bitcoin users a certain amount of privacy is completely pointless, because in that case any use of Bitcoin is a criminal activity, at least in some countries.

Furthermore, it is quite clear that a misunderstanding of how CM works, led to a 17% fee that the OP obviously cannot bear - so if it helps, I will gladly compensate him for that loss from my own pocket - with funds that have nothing to do with CM in any way.

Quote from: dhru9 on September 09, 2022, 07:00:46 AM

You broke and chipmixer pay you are bills i understand your need to be loyal to them. I don't need signature campaigns to get money so I say what I think.

Then why am I, as you say, loyal to CM? Since I've been in the sig campaign (3+ years) I haven't spent even 1 satoshi of everything I've earned? Maybe everything in your life revolves around money, maybe you think that whoever is behind CM earns millions and that only criminals use coin mixers - but for someone who doesn't know how to read a simple FAQ, you assume a lot that you can't prove in any way.

The Cryptovator

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Quote from: dhru9 on September 09, 2022, 06:04:11 AM

the day-to-day people you talk about that want pricacy are all criminal. not that I have issue with them.
But stick to the fact. Why else would you want a bitcoin mixer? Only for tax evasion, money laundering and other illegal activities.

I won't agree here. Using a mixer doesn't mean we must need to do illegal activities. Any users can use it to hide their identify from the public. Because we know each transaction on the Blockchain is visible to anyone. I don't like that someone will follow my footprint. So I might use a Bitcoin mixer.

mk4

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Quote from: dhru9 on September 09, 2022, 08:32:14 AM

the information is not clear at all that he charges 17% he should put some warning or put a table of fees

like 50 -500$ - 15% FEES

200$ - 1000$ - 5% FEES

and so on.

On faq is also vague on the fees he wrote :

We use Pay what you want as pricing strategy. It mean you set how much value our service is to you.

he didn't mentioned that he will charge me 17% there.

the Bitcoin fees network is so small why he charge me 17% for small transactions? and for big transation he charges low?

something is sketchy here. Many red flags.

You only protect them because you get 300$ weekly from them on few posts. easy money why not defend them. i am none bias here.

You literally just got corrected by o_e_l_e_o 2 hours ago, with you even having a response to him, but yet you didn't even spend 2 minutes in checking how the fees/donations thing actually works. Instead, you came up with your own numbers. Bravo.

Apocollapse

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Quote from: dhru9 on September 09, 2022, 08:32:14 AM

On faq is also vague on the fees he wrote :

We use Pay what you want as pricing strategy. It mean you set how much value our service is to you.

he didn't mentioned that he will charge me 17% there.

It's already clear, if you're don't understand what is chip size and increments on their rules, why you're not make a thread and ask about it first? You're seems like a mad guy who're not read the whole TOS and start blame the sites when there's a rules that you can't accept. Similar like casino with mandatory KYC, you're mad when they demand you KYC.

They're not charging 17% fixed fees, it's because you're mix small amount money and the amount exceed is considered as a donation. If you're deposit 0.001 BTC or 0.002 BTC, they wouldn't charge any fees from you.

mocacinno

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Quote from: dhru9 on September 09, 2022, 08:32:14 AM

--snip

the information is not clear at all that he charges 17% he should put some warning or put a table of fees

like 50 -500$ - 15% FEES

200$ - 1000$ - 5% FEES

and so on.

--snip--

If they'd print such a table, they'd be lying.
Since you keep on giving dollar values, i'll break it down in dollar values. Be advised that the chipsizes in BTC are not equal to the chipsizes in FIAT, so a $5 bill does not match an actual chipsize.

This is a service that has $5, $10, $50 and $100 bills. They do not deal in metal change coins. If you mix $6, they'll give you a $5 bill and you have donated $1 (since they don't have one dollar bills). If you would have send $15, you would have gotten a $5 and a $10 bill back, and you would have payed no fee.

This is clearly explained on multiple spots on chipmixer's site.

What i see is that you have accused every user of every mixer to be a criminal, but you failed to provide proof.
You have also accused chipmixer of scamming users that mix huge amounts without providing proof.

Now go ahead and make this all about chipmixer campaign users that are protecting chipmixer without providing any evidence for your accusations.

dhru9

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Quote from: mk4 on September 09, 2022, 08:13:24 AM

Quote from: dhru9 on September 09, 2022, 07:43:40 AM

The guy pays 20k weekly for signature campaigns. Do you think is from donations. don't be naive.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1935179.4640

Sure? It really isn't that impossible. You even got the numbers wrong. Last week, they paid $8200.

And let's not forget the revenue from people like you who don't read, despite the way chip sizes work being clearly explained in the mixing process. It's not like the information was hidden or something.

the information is not clear at all that he charges 17% he should put some warning or put a table of fees

like 50 -500$ - 15% FEES

200$ - 1000$ - 5% FEES

and so on.

On faq is also vague on the fees he wrote :

We use Pay what you want as pricing strategy. It mean you set how much value our service is to you.

he didn't mentioned that he will charge me 17% there.

the Bitcoin fees network is so small why he charge me 17% for small transactions? and for big transation he charges low?

something is sketchy here. Many red flags.

You only protect them because you get 300$ weekly from them on few posts. easy money why not defend them. i am none bias here.

mk4

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Quote from: dhru9 on September 09, 2022, 07:43:40 AM

The guy pays 20k weekly for signature campaigns. Do you think is from donations. don't be naive.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1935179.4640

Sure? It really isn't that impossible. You even got the numbers wrong. Last week, they paid $8200.

And let's not forget the revenue from people like you who don't read, despite the way chip sizes work being clearly explained in the mixing process. It's not like the information was hidden or something.

dhru9

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Quote from: mk4 on September 09, 2022, 07:30:34 AM

Quote from: dhru9 on September 09, 2022, 07:00:46 AM

You broke and chipmixer pay you are bills i understand your need to be loyal to them. I don't need signature campaigns to get money so I say what I think.

Mate, you seem to be getting a bit too riled up (for someone that didn't read crap about how the mixer works, hence lost 17% lmao). Here, I got some valuable advice for you..

Quote from: dhru9 on September 09, 2022, 05:17:20 AM

I edit it. so stick to the topic. and don't spam . Both of 2 recent comments are completely out of topic.

The guy pays 20k weekly for signature campaigns. Do you think is from donations. don't be naive.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1935179.4640

mk4

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Quote from: dhru9 on September 09, 2022, 07:00:46 AM

You broke and chipmixer pay you are bills i understand your need to be loyal to them. I don't need signature campaigns to get money so I say what I think.

Mate, you seem to be getting a bit too riled up (for someone that didn't read crap about how the mixer works, hence lost 17% lmao). Here, I got some valuable advice for you..

Quote from: dhru9 on September 09, 2022, 05:17:20 AM

I edit it. so stick to the topic. and don't spam . Both of 2 recent comments are completely out of topic.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: ?? on ??

I am sure that he programmed his app that if someone sends for example 1000 btc it will charge him at least 10%.

Right. I'm certain that there are thousands of users who have lost thousands of BTC or more on ChipMixer and said nothing, but you donating 40,000 sats because you didn't read the instructions is what exposes them. Roll Eyes

Quote from: ?? on ??

About my deposit of $50 he does not make it clear enough that I will pay $10.

It is made abundantly clear with the text I quoted above appearing immediately below the deposit address. It's also spelled out clearly in their FAQ. Something isn't a scam because you failed to read the instructions.

dhru9

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on September 09, 2022, 06:59:04 AM

Quote from: dhru9 on September 09, 2022, 06:46:14 AM

Yes they charged me 17% (of donation) without me agreeing to it. lmao.

There it is. The ulterior motive I was talking about above. This user didn't read the instructions on the Step 1 page which quite clearly states the following:

Quote from: http://chipmixorflykuxu56uxy7gf5o6ggig7xru7dnihc4fm4cxqsc63e6id.onion

Minimum amount is 0.001 BTC with 0.001 BTC increments.
Depositing 1.2345 BTC will result with 1.234 BTC funds.
Depositing 0.1249 BTC will result with 0.124 BTC funds.
Depositing 0.1240 BTC will result with 0.124 BTC funds.

He deposited 0.002427 BTC, which resulted in him being credited with a 0.002 BTC chip exactly as expected, and then opened a thread to say that everyone who wants privacy must be a criminal. Roll Eyes

You broke and chipmixer pay you are bills i understand your need to be loyal to them. I don't need signature campaigns to get money so I say what I think.

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on September 09, 2022, 06:59:04 AM

Quote from: dhru9 on September 09, 2022, 06:46:14 AM

Yes they charged me 17% (of donation) without me agreeing to it. lmao.

There it is. The ulterior motive I was talking about above. This user didn't read the instructions on the Step 1 page which quite clearly states the following:

Quote from: dhru9 on September 09, 2022, 06:57:21 AM

all the broke people who get few cents from from their signature feel need to protect chipmixer now?

By the way I sent $50 deposit and was charged 10$ fees.

I'll protect any privacy service from idiotic statements which claim that only criminals care about privacy.

Their funding and donation structure is clearly spelled out on their website. You could have deposited $50 and paid nothing had you bothered to read it.

You think that they really make money from donations that you are a fool. I will not be surprised if they all the money from people who deposit 10 btc +
Do you think that a terrorist organization that kill people and deposits 200 BTC each time will bother giving him a donation?

I am sure that he programmed his app that if someone sends for example 1000 btc it will charge him at least 10%.

Only people who send really large amounts will know the truth about the mechanism of this site.

But you will never see them complain to interpol if they get scammed.

About my deposit of $50 he does not make it clear enough that I will pay $10.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: dhru9 on September 09, 2022, 06:46:14 AM

Yes they charged me 17% (of donation) without me agreeing to it. lmao.

There it is. The ulterior motive I was talking about above. This user didn't read the instructions on the Step 1 page which quite clearly states the following:

Quote from: dhru9 on September 09, 2022, 06:57:21 AM

all the broke people who get few cents from from their signature feel need to protect chipmixer now?

By the way I sent $50 deposit and was charged 10$ fees.

I'll protect any privacy service from idiotic statements which claim that only criminals care about privacy.

Their funding and donation structure is clearly spelled out on their website. You could have deposited $50 and paid nothing had you bothered to read it.

dhru9

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all the broke people who get few cents from from their signature feel need to protect chipmixer now?

By the way I sent $50 deposit and was charged 10$ fees.

Topic: Did ChipMixer made hundreds of mllion of dollars? (Read 485 times)