Topic: DID GOLD JUST HIT THE FAN? (Read 3882 times)

They don't weave the fate of Bitcoin into derivatives. They weave the fate of the special investment vehicle(s) and the debt it owes to the bank, into derivative contracts in order to keep the debt off the banks balance sheets, if deemed necessary to do so.

They can use their special investment vehicles to surreptitiously enter the market and even if they done so purely through open market operations (as opposed to through OTC deals which would be far more likely) and took a loss to begin with. Their position would soon become so large and their spending power so limitless compared with every other entity in Bitcoin that they could soon have the whole Bitcoin market bobbing up and down on the end of a piece of string.

Say the meteoric rise was every bit as much to do with establish banking houses quietly taking positions in the Bitcoin market as it was to do with China? Sure, they will have enriched many early adopter speculators. But if this were the case, how many since then have they impoverished?

so they will buy the bitcoins you say? there is no way around it, if they buy them, they are handing out billions to speculators such as myself. the price would be $10K before they had a stash big enough to compete. they would be hundreds of billions of dollars poorer, and nowhere closer to destroying crypto currencies. there is simply no point in crashing bitcoin, if they cannot destroy it and every other cyrpto to come, it is check mate.

how could they weave the fate of bitcoin into derivitives? there is no paper market for bitcoins, even JPM couldn't short 22 million bitcoins, although I welcome them to try. there are no legitimate exchanges for this to happen and apparently "no fresh fiat" either as some like to say.

they want a stash only to hold, because they cant take the risk of not having any.

The banking sector has created a derivatives market some 10-15 times greater than world GDP. The debt pyramid time-bomb that will take down the USD petrodollar system if the US don't ensure that everyone else crashes beneath them. Which I believe they will succeed in doing.

Anyhow, in short, the large banks could just pull the money out a fkn hat if they wanted to. What is to stop a large investment bank from creating a some 'investment company entity' and then lending it (creating out of nothing) vast sums of money to do with whatever it wanted? Answer: Nothing, they do this all the time and this practise was rife in the housing bubble, or rather the mortage backed securities bubble.

Who is to say that they haven't already been doing it? acquiring large numbers of BTC in off-exchange transactions, buying a bit on exchange in order to create bubble conditions, using sell power to ensure emphatic crashes in Bitcoin and raking coins back near the bottoms. Although in reality, they wouldn't have to exercise any selling power to crash any hyperbolic market. That shit would happen all by itself without any assistance sooner or later. Wash, rinse repeat.

so how would they get a large stake? they could place a 100k BTC buy order on stamp. that would be terrible!
more plausibly, maybe they could steal 700k coins from gox. but why would you risk your stash failing to destroy a currency that you would most benefit from if it were successful? Incentive is written in the protocol, and it works outside the protocol too. decentralised cryptos currencies are here to stay, the big players know this. they also know that if they somehow manage to destroy bitcoin (HOW??) a new one will take over and their efforts will be in vein. the more bitcoins that governments and banks own, the more promising the future for bitcoin will be. sad but true.

- but seriously, imagine you are a bank, and you own 700k bitcoins. thats something like 10% of all the coins currently. you have the power to make it succeed. Being the first crypto, and the most popular crypto, you have a high probability of succeeding. do you A; make it succeed and own 10% of the global share (nobody comes close with fiat!) while back stabbing all your competitiors, or B; do you try and destroy it, costing you millions and giving away an opportunity to somebody else.

That is all very well but we actually broke the recent $400 low achieved around the time of Gox declaring insolvency and went as far as $340, on about 35% of the volume involved in the $400 down spike. Any TA 101 enthusiast will tell you that this isn't a very promising sign going into the longer term (i.e. $340 probably wasn't the low). What also isn't very promising is the rapid spike back up to $540, triggered by a very sudden surge in buying power, occurring first on the Chinese exchanges with some fkn mammoth orders kick-starting the rally on Bitstamp 3-4 minutes behind the Chinese ramp, which lead to $540 top from which we have ground along on low volume ever since. Worse than low volume. There would be no volume if not for whales rolling BTC and fiat around between accounts. We got down to $480 today and have a little low volume rise since then and now there are 4000 BTC worth of Bid orders between $496 and $480!? Give me a fucking break! This is not an organic market behaving organically and I have little to no faith in all these shenanigans. But be assured, I will no doubt dip my toes in here and there just to see 'how it feels'. I need to take a long position and hold it a day or two before I will start to get a good feel for what is coming next. But from looking at the chart, it quite frankly looks fkn ugly. Look at Bitcoin on the bounce from $380 - $995, from $400 - $710, and now from $340 - $540. A reasonable man would have to conclude that there is some kind of recurring fractal pattern at play here and one which seems to be occurring once again. If so, then we are in for invariably lower lows than $340, and that means $200 range. Right now, sentiment is very negative. I suspect that large amounts of capital has left and is still leaving Bitcoin exchanges. In short, Bitcoin needs 'an event' to drag it up of its knees and save it from lower lows and perhaps like you said, questions being asked of the viability of the whole Bitcoin system.

And if crypto was such a big threat to pre-exisiting financial houses, then they could:

A) Easily sabotage it, perhaps by taking a large stake and then engineering negative market trends into play.

B) Do the above and end up sitting on a whole big pile of Bitcoin and colluding between themselves to make Bitcoin as unstable and volatile as possible, and profit whilst doing so.

If the big banks could collude to rig the LIBOR rates, they can most certainly collude to rig Bitcoin.

Dude there is some weakness in the market @ the moment and the chinese have been targeting specific markets on an tri daily basis

But to goto 300 support is really not in the realm of reading the market for where it is ...

415+ is the bottom for the current market and teh chinese willplay within this region mostly btw 450-515 adn 11-13 ltc


Please get with the smart money and any position sub 50-0 is the med-long term money marker ... pplz talking about 300 and 200 are delusional as stated previously that it is costing ~300+ to produce a BTC\LTC so aretraction beyond these points would mean a major examination of the bitcoin experiment


this is winter & lets see where we are in 2-3 months time as crypto is a movement not a commodity ..also crypto delivers a service hat can not be calculated ... after worjing in teh banking and finance sector for 10+ years the pure functionality will drive teh adoptiontion and mainstreaming of crypto

I was sitting in on meetings with the technology architects of policy of NAB (NATIONAL AUSTRALIA BANK) one of the big 4 in oz and they see that crypto is a major threat purely that it delivers on the functionality that peopel want  ...just the same way that paypal does .... FYI paypal gets 45% of retail transactions in australia & that the banks hate ..hate ..hate this fact ..as this stealing business from the banks  ...they can totally see that crypto will do the same thing and more .... the fact that teh australian banks especially NAB hat crypto means that we are sucefful in the addopition to teh mainstream

Do you thing a buisiness that has had this totally capitve market where they have been able to rape and pilage them for neverendi8ng fees and going to roll over to crypto and say "power to people we need this technilog" ... FUCK NO ... by the way they feel the same way towards paypal ...

all i can say is that as long as crypto provides a solution to peoples reals needs there will always bee a future ..after working if finance for 10+ years every financial transaction has a 5-15% fee associated with it

crypto liberates this buillshit ..this is why "CRYPTO IS KING AS IT DELIVERS"

so to the current bears yeah ..whatever .. i have over 250k (or all my personal wealth now invested on this soultion) i am confortablle that in he med-long term this is the way ...

I would certainly look to buy in sub $300 territory with a belief that a strong reversal must surely be on the cards should Bitcoin touch into the $200 range. Failing that, whenever I see an opportunity for a bit of upside and I feel comfortable enough being long Bitcoin. I was long Bitcoin just a couple of days ago, but didn't feel comfortable with it so cashed right back out.

I think I can safely say that shall never be short Bitcoin ever again cos that involves leverage and leverage fucks with the head. Shorting is also a counter-intuitive trade in that I will feel 'comfortable' about Bitcoin when my short trade is going or set to go sour and get the Bitcoin fear when my short trade is about to come good. The human subconscious has difficulty in interpreting directly degenerative events as 'positive' and vice versa. As someone who relies heavily on intuition, shorting isn't a good idea, I have found.

Max told you to invest when it was sub $50... you did not listen until it started skyrocketing......  The man is quite respectable.

I own 1 & 1/4 oz of gold and about 70 oz of silver.. REAL gold and silver, .  I know all about the paper game on gold.. why anyone would accept paper as gold still blows my mind.

To anyone wondering why RT would be antsy to advance bitcoin, consider the fact that they have Max Keiser, the biggest loud mouth fraudster fake pump and dump dirt bag on the planet, in their midst. They're all likely heavily invested in BTC and wouldn't mind limiting the hemorrhaging.

Gotta ask captain negative MatTheCat

When will you go long bitcoin again

Gold is going to "super-spike" in the not-so-distant future! (within 2 years!) Please don't get caught long in Gold!!!!

We have to remember that, although it might not seem like it, there is a war going on (currency).
 

Because most gold being sold is sold only on paper, bro. In next crisis or war theese papers will in some strange way disappear or for one or another reason become invalid contracts. Nationalization of gold is also not out of the question, considering it's happened during all major crisis previously. That means all centralbanks/IMF/Rothschilds controlled banks(Meaning 99% of all banks) holding theese papers or even the physical gold could be confiscated. Thus, they never even have to admit to selling gold they didn't have.

Gold is down pretty deep now..

Exactly. Just like RT have done many many times before they sort of highlight and hint to stuff. I've talked about this in Politics and Society forum about the history of Soviet fall and Gorbachevs involvement.

They are also starting to compete With IMFs and Worldbanks monopoly 2015. All papers are signed.

So, Russia and/or China want to build a version Eastern version of SWIFT? That's, it'll disrupt the global money transfer market, and further highlight the advantages of using a new technology like bitcoin.

Thanks for the insight!

Today, they continue:

http://rt.com/op-edge/154400-bitcoin-money-currency-internet/


If I had any fiat left i'd put it on a bet betting that my BTC will skyrocket any second, minute, hour, day or week now



And Yeah, silver is crazy cheap. Probably possible to make a 5-10x Money on that one in a few years. Much safer then Bitcoin aswell. And thats coming from someone who believs Bitcoin is a ton safer than Fiat.

Silver is looking awfully cheap, about to go below 19.