Did Muhammad a.k.a Mohammed actually exist ?

check_status

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Quote from: drakahn on May 01, 2012, 07:39:21 PM

Quote from: check_status on May 01, 2012, 04:16:55 PM

Proof that Jesus lived, died and was resurrected exists via the Garden Tomb and Golgotha. Roman inscriptions in a cave ,dated to the 1st century, mocking Jesus on the cross by showing him having a horse head.

Garden tomb... just no

The Garden Tomb and surrounding area matches 99.99% of the text description in the New Testament as to the location of crucifiction and burial of Jesus the Christ.
To review the evidence supporting this, see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYIwjYN4JVo

drakahn

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Quote from: check_status on May 01, 2012, 04:16:55 PM

Proof that Jesus lived, died and was resurrected exists via the Garden Tomb and Golgotha. Roman inscriptions in a cave ,dated to the 1st century, mocking Jesus on the cross by showing him having a horse head.

Garden tomb... just no

the alexamenos graffito is interesting, but jesus was not the only person crucified and that may not even be depicting a crucifixion... If it is proof of jesus, it is proof he was an ass lol

thats some early arse toilet wall art though

check_status

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Quote from: zer0 on May 01, 2012, 05:38:39 PM

Quote from: check_status on May 01, 2012, 04:16:55 PM

@girlsgonebitcoin You should watch this History Channel special about Muhhamad:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4EL8RVDD_c

That's from a clip of "Ancient Aliens", another of my favorite History channel shows. Grin

check_status

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i just didn't understand what you meant by "you can tell a tree by its fruits "

It is an incomplete comment. My dog was bugging the crap out of me to feed it and i sent it prematurely.

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Obviously he did. Undecided

zer0

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Quote from: check_status on May 01, 2012, 04:16:55 PM

@girlsgonebitcoin You should watch this History Channel special about Muhhamad:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4EL8RVDD_c

Proof for the existence of Muhammad is available from the Orthodox Church he took refuge in when the Arabs tried to kill him at the beginning of his ministry.

Personally, I believe that Muhammad was possessed by an evil spirit during his meditation while in a cave. You can tell a tree by it's fruit.

Proof that Jesus lived, died and was resurrected exists via the Garden Tomb and Golgotha. Roman inscriptions in a cave ,dated to the 1st century, mocking Jesus on the cross by showing him having a horse head.
(Does that mean MNW is the second coming in the flesh?)
Proof that Moses did exist, though their dating is incorrect, is available at the Red Sea crossing and the mountain onto which God descended as fire in Midian (Saudi Arabia).
Proof that Noah did exist, his boat was discovered in Turkey, there's a visitor center and everything. http://www.arkdiscovery.com/noah's_ark.htm
Proof that Lot did exist and the proof of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah exists.

More proof of Biblical events taking place await your research @ http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/biblehistorydaily/

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Quote from: check_status on May 01, 2012, 04:16:55 PM

Proof for the existence of Muhammad is available from the Orthodox Church he took refuge in when the Arabs tried to kill him at the beginning of his ministry.

Personally, I believe that Muhammad was possessed by an evil spirit during his meditation while in a cave. You can tell a tree by it's fruit.

so all Muslims are posses by evil spirit ?

You obviously don't understand how possession works. Invalid logic is not valid.

check_status

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@girlsgonebitcoin You should watch this History Channel special about Muhhamad:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4EL8RVDD_c

Proof for the existence of Muhammad is available from the Orthodox Church he took refuge in when the Arabs tried to kill him at the beginning of his ministry.

Personally, I believe that Muhammad was possessed by an evil spirit during his meditation while in a cave.

Muhammad is the tree and Islam is the fruit of Muhammads labor. You can tell a tree by it's fruit. Good and evil are the fruits of the tree.

Proof that Jesus lived, died and was resurrected exists via the Garden Tomb and Golgotha. Roman inscriptions in a cave ,dated to the 1st century, mocking Jesus on the cross by showing him having a horse head.
(Does that mean MNW is the second coming in the flesh?)
Proof that Moses did exist, though their dating is incorrect, is available at the Red Sea crossing and the mountain onto which God descended as fire in Midian (Saudi Arabia).
Proof that Noah did exist, his boat was discovered in Turkey, there's a visitor center and everything. http://www.arkdiscovery.com/noah's_ark.htm
Proof that Lot did exist and the proof of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah exists.

More proof of Biblical events taking place await your research @ http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/biblehistorydaily/

senbonzakura

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deepceleron

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There are countries where suggesting or debating that the Koran was a creative work by this guy instead of the pure unadultered word of Allah as passed by his vessel will get you a death sentence (just like leaving the faith will get you a death sentence, or getting raped). That is why you have the fervor about Muhammad being just a man, and the ban on idolizing or drawing images of him and such, since the origin story of the Koran must be downplayed; anyone could have presumably been chosen by god to record his laws.

Clipse

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Quote from: ?? on ??

a muslim will not tell you what to believe, a muslim will explain to you islam/quran and then you later have choice of accepting islam or not

what is the point of your question ? cut to the chase ...

Actually, fundamental muslim and christian laws are the same, convert the non-believers. Sure christianity might seem to alot in western society as "more civil" today however the core fundamentals is allmost identical, just replace mohammed with jesus or vica versa.

The one thing about muslims is that they tend to be more fundamental still, perhaps that is due to them being a younger religion and at the pace the world moves today they might catch up to how christians cherrypick everything that they want to follow in the bible nowadays.

Eitherway, they are both great fiction, special the old testaments where one could seriously write some great horror shows from.

bb113

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Quote from: ?? on ??

a muslim will not tell you what to believe, a muslim will explain to you islam/quran and then you later have choice of accepting islam or not

what is the point of your question ? cut to the chase ...

There is no point to it other than to get an answer from a muslim. In my own experience, the everyday christian doesn't really care much whether you believe or not at all. I personally think they are all scams because... who is this asshole that is telling me he knows what happens after I die?

bb113

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Quote from: bb113 on April 28, 2012, 08:37:53 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: bb113 on April 27, 2012, 02:57:36 AM

Senbonzakura, does the average muslim want to tell me what to believe, or just educate me about their beliefs in the hope I will find it worthy?

What do you mean ? I am here discussing with GGB , I dont think any muslim would tell you what to believe, if you want to learn about islam then you can do so and ask a muslim questions.

Do you see in my responses anywhere where i have said to GGB to believe in something or force GGB to believe in something?

Well, then that's fine. I was more asking about the general culture, though, not you in particular. For example there are many christians who don't really care what others believe one way or the other, then there is a subset of evangelicals and brainwashers. In my experience ( mostly in the US midwest), the former far outweigh the latter although the latter have placed themselves in some positions of power.

yes, so while fundamentalist Christians shout about creeping shariah, and Islam taking over, its those people that you mentioned who force their own morals/rules/laws through politics and claim USA is a christian country with christian way of life. Yet attack islam at the same time. (when claiming USA is secular and mention the constitution )

hmm you didn't answer my question. Is the average muslim person more interested in telling me what to believe or, conversely, educating me about their beliefs in the hope I will think they make sense?

zer0

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Muhammad and his family are all buried in KSA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burial_places_of_founders_of_world_religions#Islam

Jesus unfortunately was supposed to have reanimated from the grave and his body disappeared according to myth so you won't find a dead Jesus it would kind of invalidate everything. Did he really exist? Probably. Just like David Koresh, L Ron Hubbard, Joseph Smith and the founder of the Raelians exist or existed. Was Jesus actually a messenger of God or supernatural being? Uhhh was L Ron Hubbard? Can the leader of the Falun Dafa actually fly through walls? Did Marshall Applewhite aka Do of the Heaven's Gate cult actually hitch a ride on an invisible spaceship comet? Depends on your analytical thinking.

drakahn

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Quote from: girlsgonebitcoin on April 27, 2012, 10:48:42 PM

Quote from: drakahn on April 27, 2012, 09:58:52 PM

Quote from: girlsgonebitcoin on April 26, 2012, 11:31:33 AM

That is just it you can't claim something if it never existed - moses, adam, jesus, jacob are all well documented as existing

where now?

Jesus specifically, can you please find me some sort of proof he existed as a living human?

I do not believe Jesus Christ existed as man or god, and i am yet to see any evidence to the contrary.

you are missing the point. There are many people who are researching, trying to document and asking questions in regards to Jesus - thousands of historians to scholars to you name it have written papers around jesus and Christianity.

As for Islam/Mohammed nobody is bothering to do the same because guess what!?? there is NOTHING let me repeat NOTHING to go by or to reference because GUESS what!?? he never existed Huh

don't you find this odd that people find someone so influential and claim he existed but there is nothing in regards to him documented ? I mean when was the last time you heard of some islamic scholar doing heavy research into Mohammed's existence on the same level of Christianity and jesus? Like NEVER. Might be because that would be "offensive" to islam if you do so ( good excuse to avoid anyone doing research). Then when you bring it up you are branded as a racist islomophia ?? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..............

I don't care about islam... at all... you said there is proof of jesus and i would like to see it.

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Quote from: Stardust on April 29, 2012, 12:31:13 AM

Quote from: girlsgonebitcoin on April 28, 2012, 01:01:43 PM

Quote from: Stardust on April 28, 2012, 01:40:16 AM

I never thought of this that Muhammad never existed. But I am skeptical that Abraham, Moses, or Jacob existed. For all we know Jews at that time were just a Canaanite tribe, they were never in Egypt as they fantasized.

Islam, Christianity, and Judaism are part of the same family of religions and technically, worship the same god: Allah/Jehovah/YHWH. Allah/Jehovah/YHWH is a god of war, and this why those three are associated with wars and conquests. (don't take this too seriously)

But do contrast those three with Buddhism.

There are peaceful offshoots from Christianity, Islam, and Judaism. Such as Gnosticism, Baha'i, Rosicrucianism, and Freemasonry.

I couldn't agree more that Abraham, Moses, or Jacob existed but at least there is an active search to find out we can't say the same about Mohammed because there is basically 99.9percent certainty he didn't - that is why nobody is actively researching or questioning him like they do of Abraham, Moses, or Jacob that you speak of. HUGE difference which should allow us to ask the question: Did Muhammad a.k.a Mohammed actually exist ? And when you do your typically labeled some sort of islam hater or something.

You misread me. I think the percentage is higher that Abraham, Moses, or Jacob didn't exist than Muhammad.

This is where it really helps to know what you talk about. The Qur’an refer directly to Jesus, Moses, Abraham,Jacob , its afterall one of the 3 abrahamic religions o_0

Muhammed refers to these characters aswell so its easy to defunc right there because if you have any "believe" that these characters didnt exist then we solved the mysterday of Mohammed not existing either or an absolute liar Wink

Btw there is 100% good reason to dispute any existance of god unless you can finally get some religious nutter to take a photo of their godly interactions Grin

Clipse

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I will solve this whole debate/argument.

All religious movements at the end of the day can and eventually will (if it gains enough traction) turn into a social outcast demolarization hate machine. Any of the 3 main abrahamic religions dominating the world today all have a centric holier than thou sheep movement by their followers, some wont directly show it, but its very clear that given the chance they will think they are superior because of their religious choice(indoctrination) and not by what they add to the world in terms of compassion, intellect, productivity or any other common non-religious decent thing every human should strive to.

I cant wait for the day, more than likely in my lifetime, that we can all look back at the people with the silly hats and the crazy eyes and know we all became equals atleast on the front of thinking for ourself and not some ghost buster goon.

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Quote

In the modern world, it’s Muslim-majority countries, including Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Afghanistan, that have become infamous for brutal punishments, including stoning. Ignoring dozens of Muslim-majority countries that don’t engage in such practices, anti-Muslim bigots constantly shine a spotlight on the most regressive regimes, leaving the public with the impression harsh punishments are an inevitable feature of Islamic Law.

When those countries will change, then that impression will change too. If the Vatican or Poland was stoning people to death or burning them at the stake, don't you think that would be added to image of the Catholic Church besides pedophilia?

Quote

Yet Iran has recently passed a law abolishing stoning as a punishment for adultery. As fixated as the major media usually are on that country, the story has attracted relatively scant coverage–and predictably, it’s been completely ignored by hate sites devoted to demonizing Muslims and generating hysteria about “creeping sharia.” http://www.loonwatch.com/2012/04/salah-al-nasrawi-a-lesson-from-iran-islamic-sharia-is-flexible-after-all/

From the same link:

Quote

Iran’s amendment of the penal code is believed to have been adopted in response to international criticism of its violations of human rights. It also coincides with mounting tension with the West over its nuclear program and increasing fear of a military conflict.

Critics, however, say the new code still considers adultery for married persons as a crime, although it doesn’t designate any specific punishment for it, leaving that for the judge to rely on a fatwa by a reliable cleric. Human rights organizations argued that such measures were inadequate and insisted that real change in the law is necessary.

Whether Iran wants to improve its human rights record or it is trying to ward off increasing Western pressure, the revision of its Islamic law now remains highly significant from both political and theological standpoints.

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Quote from: girlsgonebitcoin on April 28, 2012, 01:01:43 PM

Quote from: Stardust on April 28, 2012, 01:40:16 AM

I never thought of this that Muhammad never existed. But I am skeptical that Abraham, Moses, or Jacob existed. For all we know Jews at that time were just a Canaanite tribe, they were never in Egypt as they fantasized.

Islam, Christianity, and Judaism are part of the same family of religions and technically, worship the same god: Allah/Jehovah/YHWH. Allah/Jehovah/YHWH is a god of war, and this why those three are associated with wars and conquests. (don't take this too seriously)

But do contrast those three with Buddhism.

There are peaceful offshoots from Christianity, Islam, and Judaism. Such as Gnosticism, Baha'i, Rosicrucianism, and Freemasonry.

I couldn't agree more that Abraham, Moses, or Jacob existed but at least there is an active search to find out we can't say the same about Mohammed because there is basically 99.9percent certainty he didn't - that is why nobody is actively researching or questioning him like they do of Abraham, Moses, or Jacob that you speak of. HUGE difference which should allow us to ask the question: Did Muhammad a.k.a Mohammed actually exist ? And when you do your typically labeled some sort of islam hater or something.

You misread me. I think the percentage is higher that Abraham, Moses, or Jacob didn't exist than Muhammad.

Stardust

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Stardust on April 28, 2012, 01:40:16 AM

Islam, Christianity, and Judaism are part of the same family of religions and technically, worship the same god: Allah/Jehovah/YHWH. Allah/Jehovah/YHWH is a god of war, and this why those three are associated with wars and conquests. (don't take this too seriously)

But do contrast those three with Buddhism.

http://www.loonwatch.com/2011/03/warrior-prophet-moses-or-muhammad/

compares wars between mohamed/moses

I read that article when you first posted it a while ago, in another thread, IIRC I agree with the article. But I wasn't asking you to compare Muhammad with Moses, but Muhammad or Moses with Buddha.

To me Islam, Christianity, and Judaism are more or less the same thing. Christianity is Judaism 2.0, and Islam si Judaism 3.0. Mormons are Judaism 2.5.

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