Difference between Bitcoin and real money? - page 156.

mindrust

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Quote from: deisik on November 17, 2016, 08:11:26 AM

Quote from: mindrust on November 17, 2016, 07:13:57 AM

Quote from: deisik on November 17, 2016, 06:22:53 AM

What most countries do you refer to? In all important countries the status of Bitcoin is pretty well defined. For example, in the US Bitcoin is classified as a "convertible decentralized virtual currency" ever since 2013. In China, bitcoin is treated as an object of property rights fully legal for private ownership. In Europe, Bitcoin is basically considered along the same lines as in the US, and in 2015 the European Court of Justice ruled that it should be treated as a means of payment, i.e. money, by whatever name...

I don't think that anyone would be particularly interested in the opinion of some "4th world country" on Bitcoin

Quote from: mindrust on November 17, 2016, 06:10:50 AM

I hope you won't have to sell your bitcoins in Africa or in a 4th world country. GOLD and USD are known by everyone and on every piece of soil piece there is.

As I said, all that I would need is an internet connection. Even in Antarctica

You are wrong.

Bitcoin is defined as a commodity in the USA

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/09/18/bitcoin-now-classed-as-a-commodity-in-the-us.html
"Bitcoin will now be classed as a commodity in the U.S. along with gold and oil, according to the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC), which has started to clamp down on unregistered firms that trade derivatives of the cryptocurrency."

I guess you'd better read the original documents from the CFTC site to better understand what they actually say about Bitcoin and not thoughtlessly follow someone else's interpretation of these documents. Below is the excerpt from the order which is referenced by the article in your link:

As you can see, they consider as commodities services, rights, interests and whatnot, but they still refer to Bitcoin as virtual currency. It is defined as a commodity for specific purposes, namely, to regulate virtual currencies derivative markets ("enforcing rules intended to prevent manipulation of these markets"). That's what this order, similar to other such orders by the CFTC, is essentially about...

Just like the European Court of Justice ruling that Bitcoin should be treated as a currency for tax purposes

Which part of "Virtual currencies such as bitcoin are commodities." haven't you understood please tell me. I am really interested.

You are only disproving yourself with your own evidences which is even more impressive.

deisik

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Quote from: mindrust on November 17, 2016, 07:13:57 AM

Quote from: deisik on November 17, 2016, 06:22:53 AM

What most countries do you refer to? In all important countries the status of Bitcoin is pretty well defined. For example, in the US Bitcoin is classified as a "convertible decentralized virtual currency" ever since 2013. In China, bitcoin is treated as an object of property rights fully legal for private ownership. In Europe, Bitcoin is basically considered along the same lines as in the US, and in 2015 the European Court of Justice ruled that it should be treated as a means of payment, i.e. money, by whatever name...

I don't think that anyone would be particularly interested in the opinion of some "4th world country" on Bitcoin

Quote from: mindrust on November 17, 2016, 06:10:50 AM

I hope you won't have to sell your bitcoins in Africa or in a 4th world country. GOLD and USD are known by everyone and on every piece of soil piece there is.

As I said, all that I would need is an internet connection. Even in Antarctica

You are wrong.

Bitcoin is defined as a commodity in the USA

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/09/18/bitcoin-now-classed-as-a-commodity-in-the-us.html
"Bitcoin will now be classed as a commodity in the U.S. along with gold and oil, according to the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC), which has started to clamp down on unregistered firms that trade derivatives of the cryptocurrency."

I guess you'd better read the original documents from the CFTC site to better understand what they actually say about Bitcoin and not thoughtlessly follow someone else's interpretation of these documents. Below is the excerpt from the order which is referenced by the article in your link:

As you can see, they consider as commodities services, rights, interests and whatnot, but they still refer to Bitcoin as virtual currency. It is defined as a commodity for specific purposes, namely, to regulate virtual currencies derivative markets ("enforcing rules intended to prevent manipulation of these markets"). That's what this order, similar to other such orders by the CFTC, is essentially about...

Just like the European Court of Justice ruling that Bitcoin should be treated as a currency for tax purposes

mindrust

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Quote from: deisik on November 17, 2016, 06:22:53 AM

Quote from: mindrust on November 17, 2016, 06:10:50 AM

Quote from: deisik on November 17, 2016, 06:07:32 AM

Quote from: mindrust on November 17, 2016, 05:45:04 AM

Bitcoin is also a commodity. Maybe a little more liquid than a commodity. (I said maybe because while bitcoin's mobility is a plus, there are areas/people which/who have no idea about bitcoin's existance. Still if you show them gold, they will know what it is.

) But not as liquid as FIAT

Bitcoin is not a commodity. Gold is a commodity, though it can also serve as money. You most likely meant to say that Bitcoin is traded like a commodity. But if something is traded like a commodity but is not a commodity in and of itself, then most certainly it is a financial asset. Just in case, this is how Bitcoin is treated in the US, for example. Commodity is basically an exchangeable (standardized) unit of economic wealth including raw materials, products and services...

Money itself is a financial asset

Quote from: mindrust on November 17, 2016, 05:45:04 AM

To become a real money, bitcoin should be liquid.

I am pretty sure everyone here knows what i mean by "liquid". Liquid=The safest choice, accepted wordwide (or countrywide)

A liquid asset means that it can be quickly sold should such a need arise. I don't think you will have any problem selling bitcoins provided you have Internet access

Even most countries haven't decided that if bitcoin is money or commodity yet you are so precise with your descripton. Impressive. To me, it is a commodity

What most countries do you refer to? In all important countries the status of Bitcoin is pretty well defined. For example, in the US Bitcoin is classified as a "convertible decentralized virtual currency" ever since 2013. In China, bitcoin is treated as an object of property rights fully legal for private ownership. In Europe, Bitcoin is basically considered along the same lines as in the US, and in 2015 the European Court of Justice ruled that it should be treated as a means of payment, i.e. money, by whatever name...

I don't think that anyone would be particularly interested in the opinion of some "4th world country" on Bitcoin

Quote from: mindrust on November 17, 2016, 06:10:50 AM

I hope you won't have to sell your bitcoins in Africa or in a 4th world country. GOLD and USD are known by everyone and on every piece of soil piece there is.

As I said, all that I would need is an internet connection. Even in Antarctica

You are wrong.

Bitcoin is defined as a commodity in the USA.

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/09/18/bitcoin-now-classed-as-a-commodity-in-the-us.html
"Bitcoin will now be classed as a commodity in the U.S. along with gold and oil, according to the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC), which has started to clamp down on unregistered firms that trade derivatives of the cryptocurrency."

https://www.equities.com/news/is-bitcoin-a-commodity-or-a-currency
"As reported by Bloomberg, the Commodity Futures Trading Commission has now ruled that bitcoin, the peer-to-peer digital currency, is a commodity. "

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-17/bitcoin-is-officially-a-commodity-according-to-u-s-regulator
"Virtual money is officially a commodity, just like crude oil or wheat."

At best, they are confused:
https://bitconnect.co/bitcoin-news/55/is-bitcoin-a-currency-or-a-commodity-us-regulators-confused/

I admit though, EU considers Bitcoin as a currency. But it is only for taxing purposes. Not because it really is. There is a big difference.

http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2015/10/22/eu-rules-bitcoin-is-a-currency-not-a-commodity-virtually/
"Virtual currency bitcoin took another step toward legitimacy Thursday, when Europe’s top court ruled that it must be treated like a currency—not a commodity—for tax purposes."

Convinced?

deisik

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Quote from: mindrust on November 17, 2016, 06:10:50 AM

Quote from: deisik on November 17, 2016, 06:07:32 AM

Quote from: mindrust on November 17, 2016, 05:45:04 AM

Bitcoin is also a commodity. Maybe a little more liquid than a commodity. (I said maybe because while bitcoin's mobility is a plus, there are areas/people which/who have no idea about bitcoin's existance. Still if you show them gold, they will know what it is.

) But not as liquid as FIAT

Bitcoin is not a commodity. Gold is a commodity, though it can also serve as money. You most likely meant to say that Bitcoin is traded like a commodity. But if something is traded like a commodity but is not a commodity in and of itself, then most certainly it is a financial asset. Just in case, this is how Bitcoin is treated in the US, for example. Commodity is basically an exchangeable (standardized) unit of economic wealth including raw materials, products and services...

Money itself is a financial asset

Quote from: mindrust on November 17, 2016, 05:45:04 AM

To become a real money, bitcoin should be liquid.

I am pretty sure everyone here knows what i mean by "liquid". Liquid=The safest choice, accepted wordwide (or countrywide)

A liquid asset means that it can be quickly sold should such a need arise. I don't think you will have any problem selling bitcoins provided you have Internet access

Even most countries haven't decided that if bitcoin is money or commodity yet you are so precise with your descripton. Impressive. To me, it is a commodity

What most countries do you refer to? In all important countries the status of Bitcoin is pretty well defined. For example, in the US Bitcoin is classified as a "convertible decentralized virtual currency" ever since 2013. In China, bitcoin is treated as an object of property rights fully legal for private ownership. In Europe, Bitcoin is basically considered along the same lines as in the US, and in 2015 the European Court of Justice ruled that it should be treated as a means of payment, i.e. money, by whatever name...

I don't think that anyone would be particularly interested in the opinion of some "4th world country" on Bitcoin

Quote from: mindrust on November 17, 2016, 06:10:50 AM

I hope you won't have to sell your bitcoins in Africa or in a 4th world country. GOLD and USD are known by everyone and on every piece of soil piece there is.

As I said, all that I would need is an internet connection. Even in Antarctica

Slark

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Quote from: bamboylee on November 17, 2016, 05:23:59 AM

Bitcoin does not look or feel like money but it function as money. So it is basically money. It is just different on how we store or the process of how we spent it.

And what feels like money for you? Paper banknotes and metal coins? I am afraid that physical money can be soon gone.
In fact we might see some developed countries say "No" to cash sooner that we think. Norway, Sweden and Denmark soon might become cashless societies.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/cash-electronic-money-scandinavia

mindrust

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Quote from: deisik on November 17, 2016, 06:07:32 AM

Quote from: mindrust on November 17, 2016, 05:45:04 AM

Bitcoin is also a commodity. Maybe a little more liquid than a commodity. (I said maybe because while bitcoin's mobility is a plus, there are areas/people which/who have no idea about bitcoin's existance. Still if you show them gold, they will know what it is.

) But not as liquid as FIAT

Bitcoin is not a commodity. Gold is a commodity, though it can also serve as money. You most likely meant to say that Bitcoin is traded like a commodity. But if something is traded like a commodity but is not a commodity in and of itself, then most certainly it is a financial asset. Just in case, this is how Bitcoin is treated in the US, for example. Commodity is basically an exchangeable (standardized) unit of economic wealth including raw materials, products and services...

Money itself is a financial asset

Quote from: mindrust on November 17, 2016, 05:45:04 AM

To become a real money, bitcoin should be liquid.

I am pretty sure everyone here knows what i mean by "liquid". Liquid=The safest choice, accepted wordwide (or countrywide)

A liquid asset means that it can be quickly sold should such a need arise. I don't think you will have any problem selling bitcoins provided you have Internet access

Even most countries haven't decided that if bitcoin is money or commodity yet you are so precise with your descripton. Impressive. To me, it is a commodity.

I hope you won't have to sell your bitcoins in Africa or in a 4th world country. GOLD and USD are known by everyone and on every piece of soil piece there is.

deisik

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Quote from: mindrust on November 17, 2016, 05:45:04 AM

Bitcoin is also a commodity. Maybe a little more liquid than a commodity. (I said maybe because while bitcoin's mobility is a plus, there are areas/people which/who have no idea about bitcoin's existance. Still if you show them gold, they will know what it is.

) But not as liquid as FIAT

Bitcoin is not a commodity. Gold is a commodity, though it can also serve as money. You most likely meant to say that Bitcoin is traded like a commodity. But if something is traded like a commodity but is not a commodity in and of itself, then most certainly it is a financial asset. Just in case, this is how Bitcoin is treated in the US, for example. Commodity is basically an exchangeable (standardized) unit of economic wealth which includes raw materials, products and services but doesn't include financial assets...

Money itself is a financial asset

Quote from: mindrust on November 17, 2016, 05:45:04 AM

To become a real money, bitcoin should be liquid.

I am pretty sure everyone here knows what i mean by "liquid". Liquid=The safest choice, accepted wordwide (or countrywide)

A liquid asset means that it can be quickly sold should such a need arise. I don't think that you will have any problem selling bitcoins provided you have Internet access. So its liquidity is quite close to that of fiat...

With Bitcoin payment cards Bitcoin is as liquid as any other money out there

Yutikas_11920

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Quote from: TastyChillySauce00 on November 17, 2016, 05:56:11 AM

Quote from: Qartersa on November 17, 2016, 05:51:41 AM

Quote from: crst on September 10, 2016, 01:13:57 PM

I've discovered Bitcoin few days ago, but I am skeptical about few things, why would I invest money in Bitcoins at the end of the day,why would I convert money into Bitcoins?

If I want to buy stocks or invest money I can easily invest with real $. Why would I convert my $ to bitcoins?
If I want to gamble , I can simply gamble on websites that require $ as currency, why would I convert it to bitcoins?
What's the difference between Bitcoins and dolars? What does bitcoin bring to the table that real $ don't, less taxes, more income?

Bitcoin has a great opportunity to rise than any stock available (also go down).

It's easier to gamble in Bitcoin than any other currency or method.

Anonymity, untraceable (depending on you), fewer fees to pay. Plenty more actually, you just have to research.

you have made a mistake on your post above by saying anonymity and untraceable,bitcoin is actually and "honestly" traceable & pseudo-anonymous
every of your transaction will be saved on blockchain and can be accessed everytime through blockchain explorer and seems will never deleted forever,how it can be untraceable?
well unless you use some sort of services which make your transaction untraceable

I don't know how they work. But I understand when using bitcoin is any transactions conducted will not be lost (the sole remaining evidence of transactions), and proof of such transactions can be traced indeed but it's all we cannot know for sure who is making the transaction or the person who is using it. So we can only see evidence of transactions through the address or tx

TastyChillySauce00

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Quote from: Qartersa on November 17, 2016, 05:51:41 AM

Quote from: crst on September 10, 2016, 01:13:57 PM

I've discovered Bitcoin few days ago, but I am skeptical about few things, why would I invest money in Bitcoins at the end of the day,why would I convert money into Bitcoins?

If I want to buy stocks or invest money I can easily invest with real $. Why would I convert my $ to bitcoins?
If I want to gamble , I can simply gamble on websites that require $ as currency, why would I convert it to bitcoins?
What's the difference between Bitcoins and dolars? What does bitcoin bring to the table that real $ don't, less taxes, more income?

Bitcoin has a great opportunity to rise than any stock available (also go down).

It's easier to gamble in Bitcoin than any other currency or method.

Anonymity, untraceable (depending on you), fewer fees to pay. Plenty more actually, you just have to research.

you have made a mistake on your post above by saying anonymity and untraceable,bitcoin is actually and "honestly" traceable & pseudo-anonymous
every of your transaction will be saved on blockchain and can be accessed everytime through blockchain explorer and seems will never deleted forever,how it can be untraceable?
well unless you use some sort of services which make your transaction untraceable

Qartersa

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Quote from: crst on September 10, 2016, 01:13:57 PM

I've discovered Bitcoin few days ago, but I am skeptical about few things, why would I invest money in Bitcoins at the end of the day,why would I convert money into Bitcoins?

If I want to buy stocks or invest money I can easily invest with real $. Why would I convert my $ to bitcoins?
If I want to gamble , I can simply gamble on websites that require $ as currency, why would I convert it to bitcoins?
What's the difference between Bitcoins and dolars? What does bitcoin bring to the table that real $ don't, less taxes, more income?

Bitcoin has a great opportunity to rise than any stock available (also go down).

It's easier to gamble in Bitcoin than any other currency or method.

Anonymity, untraceable (depending on you), fewer fees to pay. Plenty more actually, you just have to research.

mindrust

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FIAT is the liquidest form of money.

Gold is also some kind of money but not that liquid. It used to though. Gold became less liquid and more valuable in time and become a commodity.

Bitcoin is also a commodity. Maybe a little more liquid than a commodity. (I said maybe because while bitcoin's mobility is a plus, there are areas/people which/who have no idea about bitcoin's existance. Still if you show them gold, they will know what it is.

) But not as liquid as FIAT.

To become real money, bitcoin should be liquid.

I am pretty sure everyone here knows what i mean by "liquid". Liquid=The safest choice, accepted wordwide (or countrywide)

BitcoinPanther

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Quote from: bamboylee on November 17, 2016, 05:23:59 AM

Quote from: croutonhexagon on November 16, 2016, 09:28:04 PM

Concept of real money and bitcoin is completely different. Satoshi had came up with the idea of bitcoin in 2008 which is not at all similar to bitcoin but only 1 thing matches that is they are money. But bitcoin doesn't even looks like money because no one could ever touch, see our feel it is just a numeric number stored in computer and transferred within computer that's it.

Bitcoin does not look or feel like money but it function as money. So it is basically money. It is just different on how we store or the process of how we spent it.

I agree that bitcoin though does not look or feel like money function as money itself, So if we are talking about the function of each, they don't have any differences. But if we talk about how this two is processed or made, then there we can see the difference. Aside from that, the way we store money and bitcoin and how we send them differs too.

bamboylee

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Quote from: croutonhexagon on November 16, 2016, 09:28:04 PM

Concept of real money and bitcoin is completely different. Satoshi had came up with the idea of bitcoin in 2008 which is not at all similar to bitcoin but only 1 thing matches that is they are money. But bitcoin doesn't even looks like money because no one could ever touch, see our feel it is just a numeric number stored in computer and transferred within computer that's it.

Bitcoin does not look or feel like money but it function as money. So it is basically money. It is just different on how we store or the process of how we spent it.

Liad.Services

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Quote from: c789 on September 10, 2016, 07:27:18 PM

Quote from: pakitz on September 10, 2016, 02:15:32 PM

to be unknown in any transactions online.. Cool

I wouldn't recommend BTC if you're looking for privacy since BTC isn't private or anonymous: https://bitcoin.org/en/you-need-to-know

Here's a good starting point if you're looking for a private and untraceable coin: https://moneroforcash.com/monero-vs-dash-vs-zcash-vs-bitcoinmixers.php

Bitcoin is great for general purchasing and investment. Check out https://purse.io to save 15% off Amazon purchases if you use Bitcoin.

When you consider that the currency of most countries is backed by nothing but faith in that country's currency (including USA), and that they routinely print more money in order to "have" more money, it's almost nonsensical. At least with BTC there is a fixed amount that can't be manipulated (at least not easily).

Btc is considered as an anonymous currency as you do not need to reveal your indenity in order to send funds to other people,ofcourse that if you are looking for the best level of anonynous you can use other coins like Dash and such

azguard

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Quote from: rizkyhiw on November 16, 2016, 07:27:48 PM

Quote from: requester on November 16, 2016, 12:42:52 PM

Lot of difference is there between bitcoin and real money .
Just the name is money but bitcoin is actually a form of digital asset. It is just a set of numbers stored in computer. Whereas real money are printed and are issued my central government and they impose taxes on money but bitcoin is completely different from real money.

People only know bitcoin as digital money and well it was the easiest word to introduce
Fiat money get taxed while bitcoin untraceable and no taxes at all
This makes people interested to use bitcoin due to free taxes but frequently abusable
Bitcoin more flexible to use the only problem is to find a store to spend.

finding store is very hard and that may be only problem for users to accept bitcoin as means of paying or purchasing something
i believe that we(bitcoin community) will solve this in near future and that solution will influence bigger grow of users that will go for bitcoin as payment
also main big plus is tax no matter how much you send in bitcoin you will be charged same but with flat you will have some percentage payed that is beauty of bitcoin

mainly think that they need to know bitcoin better not just like you mentioned as digital money just like any other money in the world

deisik

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Quote from: croutonhexagon on November 16, 2016, 09:28:04 PM

Concept of real money and bitcoin is completely different. Satoshi had came up with the idea of bitcoin in 2008 which is not at all similar to bitcoin but only 1 thing matches that is they are money. But bitcoin doesn't even looks like money because no one could ever touch, see our feel it is just a numeric number stored in computer and transferred within computer that's it.

All major currencies are mostly digital nowadays (physical is only cash, namely, paper notes and coins), and you can't touch, see and feel them either. And unlike Bitcoin, the same currency, say, dollar, has a lot of money "derivatives, i.e. forms of the same money that many people wouldn't even think of as money altogether. For example, the US Treasury bonds and commercial papers (promissory notes) are also considered as money, and what's more, are counted as money in the total money supply...

As I said above, something is considered as money by the role it plays, the function it performs, and the purpose it serves

bhadz

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We can easily identify what are the difference of bitcoin and real money. Real money are accepted by the government and by the people, bitcoin is not. People does accept real money for it has made legal by the government unlike bitcoin many are thinking that bitcoin is just a medium for different illegal transaction and that's making bitcoin different from real money.

Karartma1

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Want the main difference at a glance?
If my wallet says I have 1 BTC well then I really have 1 BTC (so long as I control those keys)

If my bank account says I have $100 well then if something happens to my bank I could never see those money again in my life.

BTC=control over your wealth
Paper/digital money/fiat money=you have to believe/recognize the issuer

digaran

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Bitcoin has even more than paper money to offer, when you think about it you'll see tha bitcoin has better advantages over paper cash.
Like you can manage and hold your funds all by yourself.
You don't have to pay tax.
You can mine bitcoin(print paper cash) just by having a few miner machines but I bet governments never allow you to do so with traditional money.

arcanaaerobics

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: croutonhexagon on November 16, 2016, 09:28:04 PM

Concept of real money and bitcoin is completely different. Satoshi had came up with the idea of bitcoin in 2008 which is not at all similar to bitcoin but only 1 thing matches that is they are money. But bitcoin doesn't even looks like money because no one could ever touch, see our feel it is just a numeric number stored in computer and transferred within computer that's it.

That's the complete difference of bitcoin with real money for real money is physical thing that we can touch and bitcoin is digital thing that we can't see and touch. But I'm liking the concept of bitcoin this is to make yourself comfortable and convenient for having different transactions. With just online transactions it can be done without having the real money.

Actually Bitcoin is real money too...

Debit cards works in the "same" way, you can't view it but you just can spend what you have on balance however bitcoin is more safe, anonymous and decentralized.

Topic: Difference between Bitcoin and real money? - page 156. (Read 114867 times)