Topic: Difficulty Lowering Question (Read 1477 times)
Mining will be lot more difficult than before, but was suppose to happen wasn't it?
The hosting (cloud mining) is too expensive.
large miners wont just give up... it will be the small hobbyists that turn off first.
large miners want bitcoin and use FIAT to buy rigs and pay electric and then hoard coins. yet its the small hobbyists that care about the bitcoin price because they have to sell coins to recoup losses. to be honest i enjoy seeing these stupid hobbyists turn their rigs off.. after all they are not investing in bitcoin. they are selling coins to invest their freshly received fiat into electric companies.
mining is not suppose to be quick mining to fuel a FIAT lifestyle. it suppose to be a way for people that want bitcoin to accumulate bitcoin. and those that want to accumulate bitcoin do not care about the price, as they know and are planning on the long term. and not caring about the daily/weekly costs
large miners want bitcoin and use FIAT to buy rigs and pay electric and then hoard coins. yet its the small hobbyists that care about the bitcoin price because they have to sell coins to recoup losses. to be honest i enjoy seeing these stupid hobbyists turn their rigs off.. after all they are not investing in bitcoin. they are selling coins to invest their freshly received fiat into electric companies.
mining is not suppose to be quick mining to fuel a FIAT lifestyle. it suppose to be a way for people that want bitcoin to accumulate bitcoin. and those that want to accumulate bitcoin do not care about the price, as they know and are planning on the long term. and not caring about the daily/weekly costs
Hobbyists should turn off their miners and pay hosting facilities to mine for them. Less electricity would be used, along with forcing the mega farms to shut down. Besides, one who pays for hosting makes a lot more bitcoins than if they were actually mining, ergo everybody wins.
On a side note, I can't wait to don my retard Vulcan outfit (not Vulcan retard outfit) to the next Star Trek convention.
Wouldn't the larger miners give up first if they are bleeding tons of money to electrical costs and not recouping them due to the low BTC price? I thought something just happened with a chinese farm offering thousands of Antminers for sale.
large miners mindset.
"i have $20million upfront beforehand.... and i want 28,000 coins, ill spend $10mill on rigs and $10mill on electric."
no matter what the price of bitcoin is. the cost of rigs/electric stays the same, the price of bitcoin is irrelevant because they never sell bitcoin
hobby miners
"i have $10k and i want $12k in 3 months"
they spend $10k on rigs. and then have to cash out the bitcoin to pay for electric bills each week/month, meaning they are not 100% hoarders and are going paste their 3 month deadlines due to changes in difficulty. thus they never reach ROI die to selling coins.
the smart miners are those that waste their fiat investments first off in electric and rigs. and then simply keep 100% of the bitcoin mined.
after all if your not keeping the bitcoin your mining.. then why the hell are you mining!..
Large mining farms are going to be monitoring the price of bitcoin and the cost of mining (electricity) very closely. If their goal is to acquire a large amount of bitcoin then they will attempt to do so in the most efficient manner possible. This means they make an initial investment in miners in order to buy bitcoin at a discount (via their electric bill) in the future, however if they both want to acquire additional bitcoin and the cost to mine bitcoin exceeds the value of the bitcoin they are acquiring via mining they will simply buy additional bitcoin via an exchange at a similar rate they would be mining and turn off their miners. To continue to mine at a loss is not economically rational
I agree, it is kind of backwards. Hobbies take money, everyone knows that. If I have 5 rigs and a refrigerator and heating and lights to pay electricity for, I'm not going to care about my electricity bill being higher, I'm just going to pay it. However if I'm running a warehouse full of electricity leeches, then all I'm gonna think about is how to pay the bill.
That being said, Franky is absolutely correct. If you cannot pay the electricity bill without selling bitcoin to do so, you should not be mining, mining is not for you.
The main issue we face at this point is the lopsided integrations.
We need merchants to integrate on the POS side AND the payroll side.
That is a very interesting way to look at it. And I totally agree.
But what does this have to do with mining and confirmations?
after all if your not keeping the bitcoin you're mining.. then why the hell are you mining!..
I think most crypto miners are like Gold miners... they mine, sell the gold, and collect the cash.
This is why we all need to focus on merchants integrating Bitcoin on the payroll side.
rich print money for ... rich.
not bitcoin.
simple.
clear.
smart.
not bitcoin.
simple.
clear.
smart.
after all if your not keeping the bitcoin you're mining.. then why the hell are you mining!..
I think most crypto miners are like Gold miners... they mine, sell the gold, and collect the cash.
This is why we all need to focus on merchants integrating Bitcoin on the payroll side.
Wouldn't the larger miners give up first if they are bleeding tons of money to electrical costs and not recouping them due to the low BTC price? I thought something just happened with a chinese farm offering thousands of Antminers for sale.
large miners mindset.
"i have $20million upfront beforehand.... and i want 28,000 coins, ill spend $10mill on rigs and $10mill on electric."
no matter what the price of bitcoin is. the cost of rigs/electric stays the same, the price of bitcoin is irrelevant because they never sell bitcoin
hobby miners
"i have $10k and i want $12k in 3 months"
they spend $10k on rigs. and then have to cash out the bitcoin to pay for electric bills each week/month, meaning they are not 100% hoarders and are going paste their 3 month deadlines due to changes in difficulty. thus they never reach ROI die to selling coins.
the smart miners are those that waste their fiat investments first off in electric and rigs. and then simply keep 100% of the bitcoin mined.
after all if your not keeping the bitcoin your mining.. then why the hell are you mining!..
You just explained how Bitcoin has NO difference than FIAT.
The rich get richer, the poor get fucked.
Nice logic there Franky.
If I was you (and I know you are a true supporter of Bitcoin) I would get my shit straight.
You cannot in the life of you defend Bitcoin as different than FIAT yet come out with an explanation like that.
What gives?
Two interesting links:
http://www.coindesk.com/data/bitcoin-mining-difficulty-time/
http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#rg60zczsg2011-01-01zeg2011-12-31ztgSzm1g10zm2g25
From August 2011 when diff start decreasing, that was the final blow on BTC price
http://www.coindesk.com/data/bitcoin-mining-difficulty-time/
http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#rg60zczsg2011-01-01zeg2011-12-31ztgSzm1g10zm2g25
From August 2011 when diff start decreasing, that was the final blow on BTC price
The difficulty is estimated to go down by ~4.5% as of the next difficulty period. It is my understanding that this will be the longest period (except when difficulty was at 1) that the difficulty has not increased
No. In 2011, from August to December, the difficulty was decreasing each period.
You are right. That was before when I was monitoring the difficulty as closely as I am now (plus it is very difficult to see on any difficulty chart unless you know exactly where you are looking)
The difficulty is estimated to go down by ~4.5% as of the next difficulty period. It is my understanding that this will be the longest period (except when difficulty was at 1) that the difficulty has not increased
No. In 2011, from August to December, the difficulty was decreasing each period.
Link for the OP and others readers : https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty
The difficulty is estimated to go down by ~4.5% as of the next difficulty period. It is my understanding that this will be the longest period (except when difficulty was at 1) that the difficulty has not increased Code:
Dec 17 2014 39,457,671,307 -1.37% 282,449,013 GH/s
Dec 02 2014 40,007,470,271 -0.73% 286,384,627 GH/s
Nov 18 2014 40,300,030,328 1.76% 288,478,854 GH/s
Nov 05 2014 39,603,666,252 10.05% 283,494,086 GH/s
Dec 02 2014 40,007,470,271 -0.73% 286,384,627 GH/s
Nov 18 2014 40,300,030,328 1.76% 288,478,854 GH/s
Nov 05 2014 39,603,666,252 10.05% 283,494,086 GH/s
Link for the OP and others readers : https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty
Code:
Dec 17 2014 39,457,671,307 -1.37% 282,449,013 GH/s
Dec 02 2014 40,007,470,271 -0.73% 286,384,627 GH/s
Nov 18 2014 40,300,030,328 1.76% 288,478,854 GH/s
Nov 05 2014 39,603,666,252 10.05% 283,494,086 GH/s
Dec 02 2014 40,007,470,271 -0.73% 286,384,627 GH/s
Nov 18 2014 40,300,030,328 1.76% 288,478,854 GH/s
Nov 05 2014 39,603,666,252 10.05% 283,494,086 GH/s
hobbyists are those small household guys that are not investors..
basically they are more likely LIVING off of the proceeds of bitcoin and need to cash out to pay bills and live. and also cash out to upgrade rigs. thus they are ALWAYS worrying about the prices.
we see it every day, the small hobbyests posting on this very forum how they gave up mining because its too expensive. shouting out that POW has failed and has out priced average man from mining..
YET we still see the large mining farms expanding and gaining atleast 20-30% of the hash power share.
i agree that the large investors throwing in large amounts of fiat decide to either invest it in a mining farm company or buying directly on exchanges dependent on price. but the mining farms themselves do not care about the bitcoin price. as they are not cashing out bitcoin to pay electric. they are using the FIAT income from large investors for that and thus hoarding the bitcoin for themselves or handing percentages back to investors.
but if you want to ignore all the posts from people crying that they had to give up their hobby due to large farms.. go ahead
if you want to ignore the posts of people crying because bitcoin is becoming less decentralised because large farms are increasing hash power.. go ahead
the only time hobbyists dont care about electricity prices are when they are moving over to altcoins and playing the pump and dumbs to keep profitability high, but that has nothing to do with bitcoin difficulty. thats a discussion for the altcoin section
Again you still have it backwards. hobbiests likely are not going to invest enough money in their miners for them to potentially be able to make a living off of mining. Once they realize that they are mining less then it costs in electricity they will stop mining, but it will generally take a month or two for them to realize this. basically they are more likely LIVING off of the proceeds of bitcoin and need to cash out to pay bills and live. and also cash out to upgrade rigs. thus they are ALWAYS worrying about the prices.
we see it every day, the small hobbyests posting on this very forum how they gave up mining because its too expensive. shouting out that POW has failed and has out priced average man from mining..
YET we still see the large mining farms expanding and gaining atleast 20-30% of the hash power share.
i agree that the large investors throwing in large amounts of fiat decide to either invest it in a mining farm company or buying directly on exchanges dependent on price. but the mining farms themselves do not care about the bitcoin price. as they are not cashing out bitcoin to pay electric. they are using the FIAT income from large investors for that and thus hoarding the bitcoin for themselves or handing percentages back to investors.
but if you want to ignore all the posts from people crying that they had to give up their hobby due to large farms.. go ahead
if you want to ignore the posts of people crying because bitcoin is becoming less decentralised because large farms are increasing hash power.. go ahead
the only time hobbyists dont care about electricity prices are when they are moving over to altcoins and playing the pump and dumbs to keep profitability high, but that has nothing to do with bitcoin difficulty. thats a discussion for the altcoin section
A mining farm will closely monitor the difficulty, price of electricity and price of bitcoin and will stop mining once it becomes uneconomical to continue to mine.
Once someone has been made aware of the fact that that it costs more to pay for electricity then the value of the bitcoin they are earning it will be irrational for them to continue to mine unless they are wanting to gamble that they will have more then 100% luck
hobbyists are those small household guys that are not investors..
basically they are more likely LIVING off of the proceeds of bitcoin and need to cash out to pay bills and live. and also cash out to upgrade rigs. thus they are ALWAYS worrying about the prices.
we see it every day, the small hobbyests posting on this very forum how they gave up mining because its too expensive. shouting out that POW has failed and has out priced average man from mining..
YET we still see the large mining farms expanding and gaining atleast 20-30% of the hash power share.
i agree that the large investors throwing in large amounts of fiat decide to either invest it in a mining farm company or buying directly on exchanges dependent on price. but the mining farms themselves do not care about the bitcoin price. as they are not cashing out bitcoin to pay electric. they are using the FIAT income from large investors for that and thus hoarding the bitcoin for themselves or handing percentages back to investors.
but if you want to ignore all the posts from people crying that they had to give up their hobby due to large farms.. go ahead
if you want to ignore the posts of people crying because bitcoin is becoming less decentralised because large farms are increasing hash power.. go ahead
the only time hobbyists dont care about electricity prices are when they are moving over to altcoins and playing the pump and dumbs to keep profitability high, but that has nothing to do with bitcoin difficulty. thats a discussion for the altcoin section
basically they are more likely LIVING off of the proceeds of bitcoin and need to cash out to pay bills and live. and also cash out to upgrade rigs. thus they are ALWAYS worrying about the prices.
we see it every day, the small hobbyests posting on this very forum how they gave up mining because its too expensive. shouting out that POW has failed and has out priced average man from mining..
YET we still see the large mining farms expanding and gaining atleast 20-30% of the hash power share.
i agree that the large investors throwing in large amounts of fiat decide to either invest it in a mining farm company or buying directly on exchanges dependent on price. but the mining farms themselves do not care about the bitcoin price. as they are not cashing out bitcoin to pay electric. they are using the FIAT income from large investors for that and thus hoarding the bitcoin for themselves or handing percentages back to investors.
but if you want to ignore all the posts from people crying that they had to give up their hobby due to large farms.. go ahead
if you want to ignore the posts of people crying because bitcoin is becoming less decentralised because large farms are increasing hash power.. go ahead
the only time hobbyists dont care about electricity prices are when they are moving over to altcoins and playing the pump and dumbs to keep profitability high, but that has nothing to do with bitcoin difficulty. thats a discussion for the altcoin section
Hobbyist does not care about electricity cost as it is hobby and hobby costs money any way.
Wouldn't the larger miners give up first if they are bleeding tons of money to electrical costs and not recouping them due to the low BTC price? I thought something just happened with a chinese farm offering thousands of Antminers for sale.
large miners mindset.
"i have $20million upfront beforehand.... and i want 28,000 coins, ill spend $10mill on rigs and $10mill on electric."
no matter what the price of bitcoin is. the cost of rigs/electric stays the same, the price of bitcoin is irrelevant because they never sell bitcoin
hobby miners
"i have $10k and i want $12k in 3 months"
they spend $10k on rigs. and then have to cash out the bitcoin to pay for electric bills each week/month, meaning they are not 100% hoarders and are going paste their 3 month deadlines due to changes in difficulty. thus they never reach ROI die to selling coins.
the smart miners are those that waste their fiat investments first off in electric and rigs. and then simply keep 100% of the bitcoin mined.
after all if your not keeping the bitcoin your mining.. then why the hell are you mining!..
Large mining farms are going to be monitoring the price of bitcoin and the cost of mining (electricity) very closely. If their goal is to acquire a large amount of bitcoin then they will attempt to do so in the most efficient manner possible. This means they make an initial investment in miners in order to buy bitcoin at a discount (via their electric bill) in the future, however if they both want to acquire additional bitcoin and the cost to mine bitcoin exceeds the value of the bitcoin they are acquiring via mining they will simply buy additional bitcoin via an exchange at a similar rate they would be mining and turn off their miners. To continue to mine at a loss is not economically rational
Wouldn't the larger miners give up first if they are bleeding tons of money to electrical costs and not recouping them due to the low BTC price? I thought something just happened with a chinese farm offering thousands of Antminers for sale.
large miners mindset.
"i have $20million upfront beforehand.... and i want 28,000 coins, ill spend $10mill on rigs and $10mill on electric."
no matter what the price of bitcoin is. the cost of rigs/electric stays the same, the price of bitcoin is irrelevant because they never sell bitcoin
hobby miners
"i have $10k and i want $12k in 3 months"
they spend $10k on rigs. and then have to cash out the bitcoin to pay for electric bills each week/month, meaning they are not 100% hoarders and are going paste their 3 month deadlines due to changes in difficulty. thus they never reach ROI die to selling coins.
the smart miners are those that waste their fiat investments first off in electric and rigs. and then simply keep 100% of the bitcoin mined.
after all if your not keeping the bitcoin your mining.. then why the hell are you mining!..
No. Difficulty will addapt according to the mining power and miners won't stop mining because their investment.
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