Discussing... CoinBase's Buy/Sell System

TheBanker

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Quote from: CurbsideProphet on July 07, 2013, 03:12:42 PM

Quote from: TheBanker on July 06, 2013, 08:42:16 PM

Quote from: CurbsideProphet on July 06, 2013, 05:03:21 PM

Anyone know how Coinbase bases its spot price? It used to be tied to Gox then it decoupled a while back. Today Gox was at $69, CampBX, Bitstamp, and BTC-E were all around $65. Coinbase was asking $69.50 to purchase so it can't be an average of the exchanges. Are they just taking Gox and adding a slight premium for slippage?

Ive asked this question before and I only get shady answers from Coinbase. They just say that its a mathematical formula and the price is what it is, they will not adjust it for you in any (or their fees). As far as I can tell, it's a mixture of (1) how much BTC you are selling or buying to them - try entering the sales for 10 BTC and then enter 100 BTC and you will see what I mean (2) the number of BTC that they have bought that day. You can see this by checking their buy/sell spread in the morning and then again in the evening. Ive seen instances where there is zero spread between the two and its usually in the mornings and (3) the liquidity providers that they have. This is why the price changed dramatically when Gox went down. My guess is that they were using Gox as a liquidity provider (a counter-party). But once the USD withdrawals stopped, they stopped using Gox and set their own price with a combination of the above and (my guess) the prices on both CampBX and Tradehill (and maybe a few others).

Again, these are all just my guesses after doing many, many transactions with Coinbase

Thanks. I never tried changing the amount of BTC to see if that affects the price. I'll have to check that out. Do you know what time they typically purchase Bitcoin each day? Is it Eastern or Pacific timezone?

They purchase BTC all the time I think. I've only heard of limits on the sell side - they only SELL so many BTC each day. But for buying, I've never run into a problem there.

CurbsideProphet

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Quote from: TheBanker on July 06, 2013, 08:42:16 PM

Quote from: CurbsideProphet on July 06, 2013, 05:03:21 PM

Anyone know how Coinbase bases its spot price? It used to be tied to Gox then it decoupled a while back. Today Gox was at $69, CampBX, Bitstamp, and BTC-E were all around $65. Coinbase was asking $69.50 to purchase so it can't be an average of the exchanges. Are they just taking Gox and adding a slight premium for slippage?

Ive asked this question before and I only get shady answers from Coinbase. They just say that its a mathematical formula and the price is what it is, they will not adjust it for you in any (or their fees). As far as I can tell, it's a mixture of (1) how much BTC you are selling or buying to them - try entering the sales for 10 BTC and then enter 100 BTC and you will see what I mean (2) the number of BTC that they have bought that day. You can see this by checking their buy/sell spread in the morning and then again in the evening. Ive seen instances where there is zero spread between the two and its usually in the mornings and (3) the liquidity providers that they have. This is why the price changed dramatically when Gox went down. My guess is that they were using Gox as a liquidity provider (a counter-party). But once the USD withdrawals stopped, they stopped using Gox and set their own price with a combination of the above and (my guess) the prices on both CampBX and Tradehill (and maybe a few others).

Again, these are all just my guesses after doing many, many transactions with Coinbase

Thanks. I never tried changing the amount of BTC to see if that affects the price. I'll have to check that out. Do you know what time they typically purchase Bitcoin each day? Is it Eastern or Pacific timezone?

TheBanker

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Quote from: CurbsideProphet on July 06, 2013, 05:03:21 PM

Anyone know how Coinbase bases its spot price? It used to be tied to Gox then it decoupled a while back. Today Gox was at $69, CampBX, Bitstamp, and BTC-E were all around $65. Coinbase was asking $69.50 to purchase so it can't be an average of the exchanges. Are they just taking Gox and adding a slight premium for slippage?

Ive asked this question before and I only get shady answers from Coinbase. They just say that its a mathematical formula and the price is what it is, they will not adjust it for you in any (or their fees). As far as I can tell, it's a mixture of (1) how much BTC you are selling or buying to them - try entering the sales for 10 BTC and then enter 100 BTC and you will see what I mean (2) the number of BTC that they have bought that day. You can see this by checking their buy/sell spread in the morning and then again in the evening. Ive seen instances where there is zero spread between the two and its usually in the mornings and (3) the liquidity providers that they have. This is why the price changed dramatically when Gox went down. My guess is that they were using Gox as a liquidity provider (a counter-party). But once the USD withdrawals stopped, they stopped using Gox and set their own price with a combination of the above and (my guess) the prices on both CampBX and Tradehill (and maybe a few others).

Again, these are all just my guesses after doing many, many transactions with Coinbase

arbitrage001

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Hello, maco.

Sorry to hi-jack your thread.

To answer your question regarding coinbase, my opinion is you can trust them. I have sent over 300 btc there to sell and they ACH money back to my bank in 1-3 days (unlike Mtgox).

The fee is 1% and the spread between coinbase and Mtgox is steep. So if you do large transaction, the cost will be high.

CurbsideProphet

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Anyone know how Coinbase bases its spot price? It used to be tied to Gox then it decoupled a while back. Today Gox was at $69, CampBX, Bitstamp, and BTC-E were all around $65. Coinbase was asking $69.50 to purchase so it can't be an average of the exchanges. Are they just taking Gox and adding a slight premium for slippage?

halfawake

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Quote from: TheBanker on July 06, 2013, 10:40:58 AM

I'm a little late to this discussion but I will say that I've done lots and lots of business (seriously, a lot) with Coinbase and I couldn't be more pleased. There have been multiple instances where they are transferring $10,000+ to me and I have never had any issues with them in any way. Transfers to my account take no more than one full business day and their web site is pretty reliable with uptime. They are also US based and VC backed, which is as solid as you can get in the BTC world. I wouldn't hesitate to use them again.

This is good to hear - this is a much more solid recommendation than mine since I only made one $500 order on Coinbase.

halfawake

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Quote from: arbitrage001 on July 06, 2013, 03:42:52 AM

Curious to know what kind of business can generate profit to warrant such high interest rate. And why would anyone offer such high rate given that any business/person with good credit can probably get a cheaper loan elsewhere.

Sorry to derail your Coinbase thread, maco.

This question would really be better answered by TradeFortress than myself, but it's my understanding that he makes loans at a 60% interest rate and thus is able to offer CDs at 25% - 27% and still make a profit off it. Why anyone would actually take such a high interest rate loan is a mystery to me, unless perhaps people value anonymity more than money, which wouldn't surprise me in the bitcoin community. Also, the CDs are also only for a one month term so it's not guaranteed to be that high a rate for the whole year, he could lower the rate and you'd have a lower rate if you decide to create a new CD after it matures.

TheBanker

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I'm a little late to this discussion but I will say that I've done lots and lots of business (seriously, a lot) with Coinbase and I couldn't be more pleased. There have been multiple instances where they are transferring $10,000+ to me and I have never had any issues with them in any way. Transfers to my account take no more than one full business day and their web site is pretty reliable with uptime. They are also US based and VC backed, which is as solid as you can get in the BTC world. I wouldn't hesitate to use them again.

arbitrage001

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Curious to know what kind of business can generate profit to warrant such high interest rate. And why would anyone offer such high rate given that any business/person with good credit can probably get a cheaper loan elsewhere.

halfawake

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Quote from: maco on July 05, 2013, 11:41:28 PM

LTC-Wallet.com just stole everyone's LTC after implementing their interest loan service. I am not saying this is the case with coinlenders or anything, but your statement is very strong and sounds promotional for the benefit of 'coinlenders'..

Why do you mention their service in this thread? our topic is about coinbase

Quote from: halfawake on July 05, 2013, 10:51:33 PM

Quote from: maco on July 05, 2013, 07:47:11 AM

Hang in there. The market is doing a dip which will kick out a-lot of the people who see 'bitcoin dieing'
and shoot back up once its all mature enough. If your not so much looking to get your money out yet,
try investing into BTCT.CO to earn you some more coins, then when the market is mature, you can start selling.

Also, doesn't hurt to buy once it stabilizes at the lowest peak.

I have my coins invested with Coinlenders and plan on keeping them there for the year. The interest rate is high enough that as long as bitcoin prices don't go down too much more, I should maintain the purchasing power of what I put in, which is nice, but not quite the appreciation I was hoping for. Basically, the extra bitcoins will probably just barely cancel out the loss in value - and that's assuming it stops going down pretty soon.

Haven't decided if I'm going to buy more or not; given that bitcoins are a pretty risky investment, I may just stick with what I originally invested plus the interest I'll be getting from Coinlenders.

It's not intended as promotional, but I can see how you see it that way. The reason I mentioned it is you suggested investing my bitcoins and I was just explaining how I already did. TradeFortress, the guy who runs the site, has a +76 trust reputation on this board, that's strong enough to me that I'm not inclined to think that he's planning on running off with our bitcoins. He's running a business anyway, and it would destroy his business if he did, so it's technically in his interest not to do that.

maco

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LTC-Wallet.com just stole everyone's LTC after implementing their interest loan service. I am not saying this is the case with coinlenders or anything, but your statement is very strong and sounds promotional for the benefit of 'coinlenders'..

Why do you mention their service in this thread? our topic is about coinbase

Quote from: halfawake on July 05, 2013, 10:51:33 PM

Quote from: maco on July 05, 2013, 07:47:11 AM

Hang in there. The market is doing a dip which will kick out a-lot of the people who see 'bitcoin dieing'
and shoot back up once its all mature enough. If your not so much looking to get your money out yet,
try investing into BTCT.CO to earn you some more coins, then when the market is mature, you can start selling.

Also, doesn't hurt to buy once it stabilizes at the lowest peak.

I have my coins invested with Coinlenders and plan on keeping them there for the year. The interest rate is high enough that as long as bitcoin prices don't go down too much more, I should maintain the purchasing power of what I put in, which is nice, but not quite the appreciation I was hoping for. Basically, the extra bitcoins will probably just barely cancel out the loss in value - and that's assuming it stops going down pretty soon.

Haven't decided if I'm going to buy more or not; given that bitcoins are a pretty risky investment, I may just stick with what I originally invested plus the interest I'll be getting from Coinlenders.

halfawake

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Quote from: maco on July 05, 2013, 07:47:11 AM

Hang in there. The market is doing a dip which will kick out a-lot of the people who see 'bitcoin dieing'
and shoot back up once its all mature enough. If your not so much looking to get your money out yet,
try investing into BTCT.CO to earn you some more coins, then when the market is mature, you can start selling.

Also, doesn't hurt to buy once it stabilizes at the lowest peak.

I have my coins invested with Coinlenders and plan on keeping them there for the year. The interest rate is high enough that as long as bitcoin prices don't go down too much more, I should maintain the purchasing power of what I put in, which is nice, but not quite the appreciation I was hoping for. Basically, the extra bitcoins will probably just barely cancel out the loss in value - and that's assuming it stops going down pretty soon.

Haven't decided if I'm going to buy more or not; given that bitcoins are a pretty risky investment, I may just stick with what I originally invested plus the interest I'll be getting from Coinlenders.

maco

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Activity: 294

Merit: 250

Hang in there. The market is doing a dip which will kick out a-lot of the people who see 'bitcoin dieing'
and shoot back up once its all mature enough. If your not so much looking to get your money out yet,
try investing into BTCT.CO to earn you some more coins, then when the market is mature, you can start selling.

Also, doesn't hurt to buy once it stabilizes at the lowest peak.

Quote from: halfawake on July 05, 2013, 04:27:41 AM

Quote from: maco on July 05, 2013, 02:32:55 AM

I see. That sounds smooth and yeah its about 3-7 days from what I hear. The last part about getting debited a day prior isn't actually a bad thing. I would say that is at least fair for CoinBase to properly operate a business without worrying about much, and I am sure other things that go with it as to added reasons why they needed to do that.

Maybe it was processed midnight then once cleared by coinbase billing, coin was dispensed in your account.

It's like when you get a check submitted, it takes sometimes until Midnight to let it clear or when the funds are received, there is a hold on the balance until all is cleared the next day (on the sellers) account. I am assuming there is these processing steps provided by their financial institution and yours.

Otherwise, this sounds all good, except for the 21% value in loss. Hope you make it up later on.

Quote from: halfawake on July 05, 2013, 02:05:53 AM

Quote from: maco on July 05, 2013, 01:52:09 AM

Any updates and thoughts of buying/selling? with coinbase?

The bitcoin buy worked beautifully, except for the part where I lost about 21% in value (so far) since I bought the bitcoins, but that's not really Coinbase's fault. I submitted the buy order on Sunday, they said the coins would arrive the following Friday, and they did indeed show up in my account on Friday when they said they would. Coinbase emailed me when they were available. The only part I'm not wild about is that my bank account actually got debited quite a bit before the coins were available to use - as in, a full day before I could use the coins.

Thanks, yeah, I'm hoping it regains the value and then some so I'll hopefully earn it back later on with an increase (from what I bought at $100) to a higher price. I'm still bullish long term, but I know it'll probably be a wild ride until the long term happens.

The only thing I have to say is that if you're thinking of buying now, you may want to buy elsewhere where the buy can go through more quickly like with Dwolla. The price has been dropping so much lately that I'd want the buy to go through pretty fast if I was buying bitcoins today. Either that or just wait until the price quits dropping, no clue when that'll be though, it's been doing this for I think a couple weeks now.

halfawake

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Quote from: maco on July 05, 2013, 02:32:55 AM

I see. That sounds smooth and yeah its about 3-7 days from what I hear. The last part about getting debited a day prior isn't actually a bad thing. I would say that is at least fair for CoinBase to properly operate a business without worrying about much, and I am sure other things that go with it as to added reasons why they needed to do that.

Maybe it was processed midnight then once cleared by coinbase billing, coin was dispensed in your account.

It's like when you get a check submitted, it takes sometimes until Midnight to let it clear or when the funds are received, there is a hold on the balance until all is cleared the next day (on the sellers) account. I am assuming there is these processing steps provided by their financial institution and yours.

Otherwise, this sounds all good, except for the 21% value in loss. Hope you make it up later on.

Quote from: halfawake on July 05, 2013, 02:05:53 AM

Quote from: maco on July 05, 2013, 01:52:09 AM

Any updates and thoughts of buying/selling? with coinbase?

The bitcoin buy worked beautifully, except for the part where I lost about 21% in value (so far) since I bought the bitcoins, but that's not really Coinbase's fault. I submitted the buy order on Sunday, they said the coins would arrive the following Friday, and they did indeed show up in my account on Friday when they said they would. Coinbase emailed me when they were available. The only part I'm not wild about is that my bank account actually got debited quite a bit before the coins were available to use - as in, a full day before I could use the coins.

Thanks, yeah, I'm hoping it regains the value and then some so I'll hopefully earn it back later on with an increase (from what I bought at $100) to a higher price. I'm still bullish long term, but I know it'll probably be a wild ride until the long term happens.

The only thing I have to say is that if you're thinking of buying now, you may want to buy elsewhere where the buy can go through more quickly like with Dwolla. The price has been dropping so much lately that I'd want the buy to go through pretty fast if I was buying bitcoins today. Either that or just wait until the price quits dropping, no clue when that'll be though, it's been doing this for I think a couple weeks now.

maco

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Merit: 250

I see. That sounds smooth and yeah its about 3-7 days from what I hear. The last part about getting debited a day prior isn't actually a bad thing. I would say that is at least fair for CoinBase to properly operate a business without worrying about much, and I am sure other things that go with it as to added reasons why they needed to do that.

Maybe it was processed midnight then once cleared by coinbase billing, coin was dispensed in your account.

It's like when you get a check submitted, it takes sometimes until Midnight to let it clear or when the funds are received, there is a hold on the balance until all is cleared the next day (on the sellers) account. I am assuming there is these processing steps provided by their financial institution and yours.

Otherwise, this sounds all good, except for the 21% value in loss. Hope you make it up later on.

Quote from: halfawake on July 05, 2013, 02:05:53 AM

Quote from: maco on July 05, 2013, 01:52:09 AM

Any updates and thoughts of buying/selling? with coinbase?

The bitcoin buy worked beautifully, except for the part where I lost about 21% in value (so far) since I bought the bitcoins, but that's not really Coinbase's fault. I submitted the buy order on Sunday, they said the coins would arrive the following Friday, and they did indeed show up in my account on Friday when they said they would. Coinbase emailed me when they were available. The only part I'm not wild about is that my bank account actually got debited quite a bit before the coins were available to use - as in, a full day before I could use the coins.

halfawake

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Activity: 490

Merit: 500

Quote from: maco on July 05, 2013, 01:52:09 AM

Any updates and thoughts of buying/selling? with coinbase?

The bitcoin buy worked beautifully, except for the part where I lost about 21% in value (so far) since I bought the bitcoins, but that's not really Coinbase's fault. I submitted the buy order on Sunday, they said the coins would arrive the following Friday, and they did indeed show up in my account on Friday when they said they would. Coinbase emailed me when they were available. The only part I'm not wild about is that my bank account actually got debited quite a bit before the coins were available to use - as in, a full day before I could use the coins.

maco

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Any updates and thoughts of buying/selling? with coinbase?

halfawake

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I'm in the process of buying from Coinbase right now. If anyone's curious, I'll be happy to explain how long it takes once it's finished. I don't plan on actually keeping my bitcoins with them since I'd rather have them in my own cold wallet, but it seems like a great way to buy, at least so far.

maco

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We had some good discussions here. Let's keep it going.

What are some other thoughts about using CoinBase?

maco

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Activity: 294

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Yeah, it could be that. so that way they don't have people buying/selling instantly for a profit, right?

Quote from: ThatDGuy on June 12, 2013, 04:06:23 PM

Quote from: maco on June 12, 2013, 03:46:57 PM

Does anyone know why there is a GAP between the two prices on CoinBase? (BUY VS. SELL)

Hmmm, guessing the difference between buying from the first sell order compared to selling to the first buy order?

Topic: Discussing... CoinBase's Buy/Sell System (Read 2411 times)