Topic: Discussion thread for my upcoming German property auction. (Read 5656 times)

Quote from: elm on September 10, 2013, 12:08:30 AM

I thought house auctions are illegal. is it now legal because BTC was involved?

auctions of real estate are illegal? you mean getting the highest bid for your property and accepting it is illegal? how do banks liquidate property from bankrupt companies and individuals???

do you live in the twilight zone???

sorry You absolutely right it was my mistake. I meant to raffle a real estate/house if this is legal with BTC? because it is illegal with fiat

cheers

I've seen some house raffles like the 'buy a brick' raffles in the UK, seem to be legal to me.

yes for the UK and there are some offshore countries but in general it is illegal and there could be the chance to use BTC and do a nice real estate raffle.

maybe some one here can tell us if it would be legal to do a house/real estate raffle with BTC

bitcoin_bob

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Quote from: prophetx on September 09, 2013, 07:48:03 PM

Quote from: prophetx on September 09, 2013, 07:48:03 PM

I thought house auctions are illegal. is it now legal because BTC was involved?

auctions of real estate are illegal? you mean getting the highest bid for your property and accepting it is illegal? how do banks liquidate property from bankrupt companies and individuals???

do you live in the twilight zone???

sorry You absolutely right it was my mistake. I meant to raffle a real estate/house if this is legal with BTC? because it is illegal with fiat

cheers

I've seen some house raffles like the 'buy a brick' raffles in the UK, seem to be legal to me.

elm

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I thought house auctions are illegal. is it now legal because BTC was involved?

auctions of real estate are illegal? you mean getting the highest bid for your property and accepting it is illegal? how do banks liquidate property from bankrupt companies and individuals???

do you live in the twilight zone???

sorry You absolutely right it was my mistake. I meant to raffle a real estate/house if this is legal with BTC? because it is illegal with fiat

cheers

prophetx

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Activity: 1666

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he who has the gold makes the rules

Quote from: flavius on June 09, 2013, 03:26:52 PM

I thought house auctions are illegal. is it now legal because BTC was involved?

auctions of real estate are illegal? you mean getting the highest bid for your property and accepting it is illegal? how do banks liquidate property from bankrupt companies and individuals???

do you live in the twilight zone???

elm

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I thought house auctions are illegal. is it now legal because BTC was involved?

bitcoin_bob

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is this auction over yet so i can make fun of the seller?

Yes, the deal is done, so crack on. Thanks for waiting.

You actually have an honourable mention in my current auction;

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/and-now-for-something-completely-different-smurfs-229471

and are welcome to go at it there as well.

flavius

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welcome to riches

is this auction over yet so i can make fun of the seller?

Jobe7

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Now they are thinking what to do with me

Will be encouraging the winner to keep people publicly updated of the progress so people can build confidence and trust.

Welsh

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Yeah, I was just wondering, I didn't think meeting each other was actually needed.

I hope you get more than 4.6 BTC. The land seems to have potential.

bitcoin_bob

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Quote from: Welsh on June 05, 2013, 06:36:14 PM

Could you explain in detail of how the process would go if won?

Like, meeting in person, how long it would take etc.

Hi Welshy,

Looks Like Jobe pretty much covered it for me; however I might be back in the UK sometime in the near future if a meet was required. But the paperwork is pretty simple- I will guide whoever wins through it.

Jobe7

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Quote from: Welsh on June 05, 2013, 06:36:14 PM

Could you explain in detail of how the process would go if won?

Like, meeting in person, how long it would take etc.

Most of it is at the bottom of the Auction thread (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/house-in-germany-for-1btc-no-reserve-222896) but I've linked it below for you, please note that escrow is not essentially needed, as the winner can transfer the Bitcoins whilst at the actual house and signing the documents if so desired. Escrow is offered because of previous complaints/desire for an escrow. If you want to meet Bitcoin_Bob in person (assuming to conduct the sale) then you'll have to discuss that with him, keep in mind that he lives in Canada.

As to how long the process would take .. depends on how the winner goes about it, if they want to visit the house, just do everything via lawyer, use an escrow, visit Bitcoin_Bob, etc, etc, I'm going to throw out a wild guess and say a couple of weeks, though, ye, heavily depending on the wishes of the winner of the auction.

Quote

If you win:

1. On bid acceptance, you must send a deposit of 500 Euros to the notary in Germany, or the equivalent BTC to the escrow.

2. On confirmation of the deposit, a ‘purchase agreement’ is sent to you signed to show I accept your bid. You then sign the agreement to say you legally agree to buy the house.

3. You then post the original (of the agreement) to the notary and send a copy to me. You will also need to sign a ‘POA’ for the notary to act on your behalf, at your local German consul, or go to Germany. I suggest you check where the nearest German consul is before getting too involved here. If you are not prepared to travel to your nearest local German consul then this auction is not for you.

4. The deal is now legal, the notary will begin the transfer of the title. You will pay the owed funds in BTC to the escrow.

5. We will send a certificate of ‘all payments received’ to the escrow, signed and notarized. This document, when given to the German notary, is irrevocable proof that you have paid for the property and we will have no way whatsoever after that and the purchase and sale agreement has been given to the notary, to prevent the property being registered in your name.

6. The escrow transfer the funds to the seller (us) and sends the certificate of payment received, via registered email, at the same time.

Viewing
If you wish to view the property then please contact me with your name, method of travel and photo ID and I will authorize you to visit and tell the local police and neighbours you are going to be there. This will prevent your arrest. Any damage done by any visitors will be reported as criminal damage.

Taxes-120 euros a year.

Legal fees 500 euros plus aprox 7% of the total purchase price declared for transfer tax and notary fees.

Publicity Upon winning the auction

with the winners agreement, I will keep people updated on how the sale is going via this thread. This is to show as much transparency as possible and to show that deals like this can really happen with Bitcoin. I will ask any interested press to respect the winners privacy, unless the winner is interested in press publicity, I am happy to give a statement myself pre-completion, after that, statements may require the winners agreement.

Welsh

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Could you explain in detail of how the process would go if won?

Like, meeting in person, how long it would take etc.

doosey2

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Can you post proof of ownership like a title or deed?

Jobe7

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Now they are thinking what to do with me

Quote from: NumberFive on June 05, 2013, 03:09:24 PM

Do you have a "buy it now" opt? I am very interested in this property. Would like to discuss more privately if you don't mind.

The auction is open (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/house-in-germany-for-1btc-no-reserve-222896), try to keep bids in public view as much as possible so that everyone can see whats happening.

Teka

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Quote from: NumberFive on June 05, 2013, 03:09:24 PM

Do you have a "buy it now" opt? I am very interested in this property. Would like to discuss more privately if you don't mind.

If you are talking about the German Property he has a buyout option. The buyout is set at 100BTC

NumberFive

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Do you have a "buy it now" opt? I am very interested in this property. Would like to discuss more privately if you don't mind.

bitcoin_bob

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Quote from: YaCoinYeah on June 05, 2013, 01:16:45 AM

I'd be interested in bidding in a French estate.

I'll see how many chateaus and champagne vineyards I call pull out my hat for you then

Failing that I do have a small farm with just over 1.5 acres of land that I might auction off.

Jobe7

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Just to add about concerns of pictures of the internal side of the house;

I've discussed with Bitcoin_Bob and the house should be considered a shell, and that bidders should consider only the land. If you were to buy the land/property it would probably be in your best interest to knock the shell down and build upon the land whatever you wished. Keep in mind that even with that thought, the property is very cheap for this auction.

An investment, or if you're a builder (or can hire builders) a likely very profitable investment (whether for resell or for living).

Assuming this auction goes well, I will talk with Bitcoin_Bob about arranging a 'Auctions to come' list.

YaCoinYeah

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Quote from: bitcoin_bob on June 04, 2013, 06:18:55 PM

Quote from: doosey2 on June 04, 2013, 06:00:14 PM

bob - can an american buy the house?

also - what are the annual costs if you buy the house and do nothing?

i'd like to buy it but probably won't get around to tinkering for a couple years...

Yes Americans can buy the house its actually a really easy process. The annual costs are about 200 bucks a year because the house in not inhabited.

I'd be interested in bidding in a French estate.

bitcoin_bob

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Quote from: doosey2 on June 04, 2013, 06:00:14 PM

bob - can an american buy the house?

also - what are the annual costs if you buy the house and do nothing?

i'd like to buy it but probably won't get around to tinkering for a couple years...

Yes Americans can buy the house its actually a really easy process. The annual costs are about 200 bucks a year because the house in not inhabited.

doosey2

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bob - can an american buy the house?

also - what are the annual costs if you buy the house and do nothing?

i'd like to buy it but probably won't get around to tinkering for a couple years...

veox

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Quote from: bitcoin_bob on June 02, 2013, 05:19:08 PM

Quote from: flavius on June 02, 2013, 05:14:12 PM

...

Please don't feed the troll. There is an 'Ignore' link to the left.

bitcoin_bob

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Quote from: flavius on June 02, 2013, 05:14:12 PM

if you get pornstars to model in front of the house i might be interested

no german ugly horse shit though

I would, but your mum is on a busy schedule fella.

Quote from: timmolter on June 02, 2013, 04:44:41 PM

If you have any land or a house for sale in Oberbayern, I'd be interested.

Sadly not, other houses are in France that I have, and one other in Germany.

flavius

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welcome to riches

if you get pornstars to model in front of the house i might be interested

no german ugly horse shit though

timmolter

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If you have any land or a house for sale in Oberbayern, I'd be interested.

Jobe7

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Quote

Suggest people quote the last bid in their current bid to prevent people from changing posts or bids after the fact.

Good idea

And all, again, these are the reasons why Bob has made this alternative 'discussion' thread before opening the auction. To give the opportunity for excellent suggestions like this, so the auction can go as smooth as possible (and with as much trust as possible). Hopefully people with similar ideas in the future will be able to grab ideas from how this auction goes.

Teka

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Are the other properties based in Europe?

bitcoin_bob

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Quote from: Welsh on June 02, 2013, 10:21:49 AM

I see a lot of other people are already flaming. Well for one, the previous threads were about a different property. Two there was so much arguing going on, it was HARD to find the previous bid.
There was a lot of confusion which needed to be avoided. It's a good thing that there is a separate thread, but I just know someone will ask a question on the auction thread.

So, I'm wondering I know this is totally off topic, but where did the other house go? have you sold it? I know you were listing it on Ebay but I didn't hear any more.

However, I like the look of this house, and I think a lot of people will be put off by the fact of people flaming, which is a shame. Hopefully people can look beyond this and judge for themselves instead of other peoples personal opinions.
I wish you good luck!

Good morning!

The other house is still up for grabs, but I made a deal with a friend of mine who is willing to give it a shot, her property is worth a lot less than my GF's property and she offered it up for me to 'cut my teeth' selling on the bitcoin forums. If this works I will be listing a few other properties in a few other countries, but no point if they are going to drastically undersell just because of a trust issue.

Once this one is done more exciting things to come.

Welsh

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I see a lot of other people are already flaming. Well for one, the previous threads were about a different property. Two there was so much arguing going on, it was HARD to find the previous bid.
There was a lot of confusion which needed to be avoided. It's a good thing that there is a separate thread, but I just know someone will ask a question on the auction thread.

So, I'm wondering I know this is totally off topic, but where did the other house go? have you sold it? I know you were listing it on Ebay but I didn't hear any more.

However, I like the look of this house, and I think a lot of people will be put off by the fact of people flaming, which is a shame. Hopefully people can look beyond this and judge for themselves instead of other peoples personal opinions.
I wish you good luck!

flavius

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welcome to riches

autism

escrow.ms

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Quote from: joesmoe2012 on June 02, 2013, 02:54:37 AM

Yeah this is like the 10th thread about this ...

hasn't it been auctioned off like 5 times but everytime the offer is retracted after the auction ends?

It's different house and he posted discussion thread to avoid,flaming and separate discussions from auction thread.

@Bitcoinbob. Goodluck dude.

escrow.ms

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Quote from: zxyzxy on June 02, 2013, 07:36:00 AM

hey, i would like to ask when will the auction end? i kind of maybe missed that in the original thread?

Reserve: None. Start: Wednesday 15:00 Noon, UTC. End: Saturday 15:00, UTC, or if the Buyout is reached.

zxyzxy

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hey, i would like to ask when will the auction end? i kind of maybe missed that in the original thread?

lunarboy

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Suggest people quote the last bid in their current bid to prevent people from changing posts or bids after the fact.

Jobe7

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Now they are thinking what to do with me

Quote

hasn't it been auctioned off like 5 times but everytime the offer is retracted after the auction ends?

Please point out where the 5 or so times it has been previously auction.

It's the 1st time this place has been auctioned. Previously he tried to auction his gf's grandfathers house, the auction didn't go very well, he wasn't used to what some might consider, the typical reaction, from a lot of forum users here.

As to me being an escrow, that is entirely up to the winner of the auction and the seller to decide, I just stepped up when no one else was able/willing to, and as mentioned, I'm happy to give whatever details required to the winner, if it is decided to use me as an escrow.

I'm not going to pay the 10 btc donation at these forums at this time, as £850 just for a green tag and to give people more confidence just isn't worth it when I'm not even sure whether I'll be used as an escrow.

Seeing as his previous auction (a few weeks ago) was cancelled, this is still the 1st house ever auctioned for Bitcoins.

And, to be quite honest, it's a house .. if you don't want an escrow, you can transfer the Bitcoins at the point of sale, where you've signed the legal documents, talked to the lawyer, have the house legally in your name, then transfer the Bitcoins.

But people complained a lot last time (one might assume that they've never brought a house before), hence why the escrow service is offered this time.

Quote

This guy with 300 posts will not suffice.

If you're basing validity to be an escrow on the number of posts someones made, then you will most definitely be scammed at some point or another. The number of posts someones made should be the LAST thing you base your trust on. I understand your reasoning, but honestly, the number of posts someones made should NOT be your basis of trust.

John was apparently approached, but was too busy.

Edit: I will donate the 10 btc for the tag if I can convince theymos to allow some kind of verification to be implemented for those that choose it to help give those (like myself) who are trying to legitimately assist in the Bitcoin economy, to have proper credibility in these forums. Otherwise I don't see the point of the donating tag as people can scam with that regardless, I'd prefer to give/have more verification for myself.

joesmoe2012

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Ching-Chang;Ding-Dong

Quote from: bitcoin_bob on June 01, 2013, 04:49:34 PM

who cares?... just seems like you're trying to be an attention whore. none of us are interested

Quote from: jhansen858 on June 02, 2013, 12:12:59 AM

I am 11.

*pats on head* aww, you are cute.

Yeah this is like the 10th thread about this ...

hasn't it been auctioned off like 5 times but everytime the offer is retracted after the auction ends?

Bitcycle

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Try as I might, I cant find the house on google earth. Or the town, or anything.

I found the town pretty easily in google maps, and then the location using the plot map in the other thread.

http://goo.gl/maps/LA6EY

Sadly, no Google Street View of this town.

YaCoinYeah

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I'd bid if you will allow John to escrow (the moderator). This guy with 300 posts will not suffice.

jhansen858

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Try as I might, I cant find the house on google earth. Or the town, or anything.

Jobe7

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Quote

Why wait till Wed?

I Bid BTC8 (~$1000)

To give people a chance to see the auction, ask questions and to bid.

Wait until Wednesday.

chsados

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Why wait till Wed?

I Bid BTC8 (~$1000)

bitcoin_bob

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Quote from: Bitcycle on June 01, 2013, 05:47:57 PM

This is not the same house as earlier, is it? It seems to be in a different location.

If this is a different house, are the photos of the interior available?

It is a different house- a friend of mine heard what i tried and said she would like try it with her old house. There are not any interior photos, Im sorry- this is what I have. Its basically a sale for someone to invest in the land- the property is pretty much a shell from what I know if it.

Value is circa 5 euros per M2 which is the assessed value locally for land. the plot is 992M2, which equates to the land value being basically 4960 euros.

Jobe7

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Good suggestion on the age requirement, normally one would think it was common sense, but ye, you have a very valid reason to point this out. And ye, I suggested this alternative thread to Bitcoin_Bob to carry conversations and questions (and for people like flavius).

Yes it is a different house. We shall have to wait on Bitcoin_Bob to see if there are any internal pictures. Though I fully imagine that it needs a fair bit of work inside also.

I am thinking you're curious as to the inside because of rooms? walls? etc?

Bitcycle

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This is not the same house as earlier, is it? It seems to be in a different location.

If this is a different house, are the photos of the interior available?

Welsh

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Quote from: flavius on June 01, 2013, 05:09:21 PM

Quote from: bitcoin_bob on June 01, 2013, 04:49:34 PM

who cares?... just seems like you're trying to be an attention whore. none of us are interested

Quote from: bitcoin_bob on June 01, 2013, 04:49:34 PM

I am 11.

*pats on head* aww, you are cute.

Hey guys, I'm selling a bitcoin.

Let me open up a new thread just so you guys can discuss it, because I'm sure it matters to anyone.

It's understandable to open a entirely new thread, auction is for placing bids, now when people keep asking questions, it becomes difficult to find the bids if you are interested in bidding. The OP is doing what he thinks would be easier for him & others to place/review bids.

Anyway, I'm glad to see this back up and being auctioned. I'm in full time education sadly, so I don't think I would have the time or money to develop this property further. I'm interested in the final bid, and may place a bid and let my family members take the project on until I get enough time to carry on the project (obviously the project would be under my supervision).

Although, I'm hoping people do bid. Instead of reacting like the one guy did above, I hope you get a reasonable amount for the house, not just a few BTC.
I wish you good luck, and I will be watching....

EDIT: You might want to put a minimum age, 11 is....young and shouldn't be considered. (I think it would stop people from trolling.)

flavius

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welcome to riches

who cares?... just seems like you're trying to be an attention whore. none of us are interested

I am 11.

*pats on head* aww, you are cute.

Hey guys, I'm selling a bitcoin.

Let me open up a new thread just so you guys can discuss it, because I'm sure it matters to anyone.

Jobe7

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Just dropping in a "hello" and to add that to help alleviate fears I will getting the green 'donation' tag over the next few days, which is 10 btc, or just under £850 (or $1,300 depending on how you wish to look at it).

I am also a Lifetime Bitcoin Foundation Member, a Fellow with the Bitcoin Education Project (you'll see the start of my lectures soon) and a member of the Ludwig von Mises Institute, also I recently got a mention on RT News (Prime Interest), though as my 'Bitcoin alias', Bitcoin Jobe. I am also Bitcoin Jobe on facebook & twitter.

If you're a serious bidder and want more personal information, pm me. If its deemed really needed I'll post openly, but obviously I'd prefer not to plaster my personal details in these forums.

bitcoin_bob

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who cares?... just seems like you're trying to be an attention whore. none of us are interested